O's Fans Held Hostage - Day 26

[bigbird]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

[Mackus]

Have the terrorists made any demands? Can we exchange a few hostages for pizza or sandwiches? Who are we talking to in there?

I hope the FBI doesn't cut power to the building. That's exactly what they want so they can get into the vault!

[bigbird]

Have the terrorists made any demands? Can we exchange a few hostages for pizza or sandwiches? Who are we talking to in there?

I hope the FBI doesn't cut power to the building. That's exactly what they want so they can get into the vault!

It's worse... We're being locked in a room and forced to watch MASN Classic Games from when the Orioles were actually good!!!

[TonySoprano]

Have the terrorists made any demands? Can we exchange a few hostages for pizza or sandwiches? Who are we talking to in there?

I hope the FBI doesn't cut power to the building. That's exactly what they want so they can get into the vault!
Those terrorists didn't count on John McClane.

[Fan4Life]

It's worse... We're being locked in a room and forced to watch MASN Classic Games from when the Orioles were actually good!!!

That's funny... rep coming your way...

[Boy Howdy]

Have the terrorists made any demands? Can we exchange a few hostages for pizza or sandwiches? Who are we talking to in there?

I hope the FBI doesn't cut power to the building. That's exactly what they want so they can get into the vault!

Time for a hunger strike, maybe (for those of you in captivity)

As for me, I'm just giving thanks that I freed my mind a long time ago so that my (rhymes with glass - the mods are already vexed) could follow.

[TonySoprano]

It's worse... We're being locked in a room and forced to watch MASN Classic Games from when the Orioles were actually good!!!
Good's a relative term isn't it? We were 76-85 in 1990.:D

[Fan4Life]

Those terrorists didn't count on John McClane.

I thought MCClane played for the Ravens? :)

[Boy Howdy]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.


Ah, hell.

Release the hounds.......

[33rdst]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

The decline in ticket sales may explain to some extent the lowballing of the free agents. Any guess as to who the pitcher is and who we might be making a "panic" move on?

[BaltimoreTerp]

*Reaches for popcorn*

[TheBee]

The decline in ticket sales may explain to some extent the lowballing of the free agents. Any guess as to who the pitcher is and who we might be making a "panic" move on?

Was wondering the same thing - does this correspond with Roch's comments on the Japanese pitchers?

[BedardisAce]

That pitcher better not be Jon Garland. Sheets would be the only guy that would make a difference in the franchise state, let's hope its him.

[Fan4Life]

*Reaches for popcorn*

LOL.......

Any chance we can get MASN to replay the 1997 or 1998 season for us this upcoming season?

[waroriole]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

Can you say which players?

[BaltimoreTerp]

I enjoy watching those games - particularly that 1970 Game 5 they've been running. I wish they'd show more of those - if the tapes are available.

They had one game on, about a week ago, from sometime in the summer of 1989. Managed to figure it out based on who the players were and other clues (the fact that it was in Memorial Stadium helped immensely :laughlol:) despite having been six and not knowing anything about the Orioles when the game was originally played. So I was proud of that :p

No clue why they played it as a "classic", though.

[TheBee]

I would like to see a panic move on Dunn or Sheets, but I have a feeling he isn't that panicked :)

[Moose Milligan]

Hahaha, we're so screwed.

This thread promises to be a *****athon. Wait until the usual suspects show up. :D

[Birds08]

At this point, the only news I really care about is what happens with Roberts (since we aren't going after Dunn or Sheets for whatever reason). How depressing our offseason has become.

If the FO didn't foresee ticket sales being down, then they are ever dumber than I thought.

[Peace21]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

I smell a sale coming soon.

[The Rick]

A panic move seems like the last thing AM would do. That's completely against his style.

[anselmO]

That pitcher better not be Jon Garland. Sheets would be the only guy that would make a difference in the franchise state, let's hope its him.

Yea right. Sheets or Garland. This is going to be either Redding or one of the Japanese pitchers.

As far as AM lowballing free agents in dollars and years, who would that be besides Tex? Who else did we miss out on by lowballing?

[Peace21]

Geez how hard is it to extend Markakis?

[BaltimoreTerp]

To be fair they've also shown a few Nationals games as classics. :laughlol:

Well yeah, but that is just for balance.

I mean, the game had to have SOME significance, I just didn't catch it at the right time to figure it out :laughlol:

[Fan4Life]

Geez how hard is it to extend Markakis?

It's on this offseasons to-do list... unfortunately the FO is still stuck on item #1 or #2 on the list. Rest assured as soon as they get that resolved, they get Nick done.

[Shopay]

Geez how hard is it to extend Markakis?

I thought Nick and his agent wanted to see how the free agent market shook out before continuing with negotiations?

[Fairfax Bird]

Geez how hard is it to extend Markakis?

Very hard if Markakis doesn't want to extend.

[TakebackOPACY]

Well yeah, but that is just for balance.

I mean, the game had to have SOME significance, I just didn't catch it at the right time to figure it out :laughlol:

Were they playing the Angels?

[Moose Milligan]

http://www.arts-wallpapers.com/movie_wallpapers/the_usual_suspects_wallpaper.htm

You rang?!

Those guys aren't armed with computers, too much time on their hands and dangerous baseball statistics.

[Fan4Life]

They're presently trying to trick him into the closet in MacPhail's office to change out a light bulb.

Once he's in there they'll fill the closet with gas until he's unconscious.

After that they'll strap him down on a table and begin with Chinese Water Torture. If that doesn't work, they'll force him to watch some classic Orioles games from the Perlozzo Era.

My guy told me that they initially considered using bamboo shoots into his finger nails, but then realized he wouldn't be able to sign the contract with sore fingers.

The Chinese Water Torture might not happen, I'm hearing the guys we thought would handle this for us have signed somewhere else.

[Boy Howdy]

Those guys aren't armed with computers, too much time on their hands and dangerous baseball statistics.

Don't forget "facts". As opposed to facts.

[Peace21]

It's on this offseasons to-do list... unfortunately the FO is still stuck on item #1 or #2 on the list. Rest assured as soon as they get that resolved, they get Nick done.

Thanks..I feel so much better.;)

[zff4]

Being held hostage at Opacy is nothing that Clancy can't cure.

[The Rick]

The Chinese Water Torture might not happen, I'm hearing the guys we thought would handle this for us have signed somewhere else.

Yes, Jack Bauer is busy with 24. ;)

[Fairfax Bird]

You mean Bigbird's guy isn't in the loop in the office? Shocking ... I'm betting its not as much of a cluster as is being indicated.

[DonnyUnitas]

Very hard if Markakis doesn't want to extend.

Going with the theme of this thread


Markakis has made it clear, he does not negotiate with terrorists.:laughlol:

[SrMeowMeow]

This is like yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater, except it's easier to convince the people in the theater to take the information with a grain of salt.

[Moose Milligan]

Don't forget "facts". As opposed to facts.

Don't forget revisionist history and selective memories too! Oooooohhhh this is gonna be rich! Time to order a pie (not Felix) and grab a 6 pack and watch the ---- storm rain on down!

[Boy Howdy]

You mean Bigbird's guy isn't in the loop in the office? Shocking ... I'm betting its not as much of a cluster as is being indicated.

No knock on the notorious B.I.G.(bird), but I'm sensing that you're on to something here.

[Fan4Life]

You mean Bigbird's guy isn't in the loop in the office? Shocking ... I'm betting its not as much of a cluster as is being indicated.

If the offseason results are conversely related to the size of the Cluster, it's a big Cluster.

[Fairfax Bird]

If the offseason results are conversely related to the size of the Cluster, it's a big Cluster.

Offseason results aren't in until the offseason is over, it is half over.

[Fan4Life]

Offseason results aren't in until the offseason is over, it is half over.

*** REVISED***
If the offseason results THUS FAR are conversely related to the size of the Cluster, it's a big Cluster.

[McNulty]

Isn't it par for the course for this time of year to be nuts in just about every front office?

[TonySoprano]

They're presently trying to trick him into the closet in MacPhail's office to change out a light bulb.That's Hendrickson's job. He's 6' 9" you know and can get to those hard-to-reach places in the warehouse.

[Fairfax Bird]

Isn't it par for the course for this time of year to be nuts in just about every front office?

I think the implication is that AM doesn't know what the hell is doing,

[Gofannon]

After that they'll strap him down on a table and begin with Chinese Water Torture. If that doesn't work, they'll force him to watch some classic Orioles games from the Perlozzo Era.



Would the Chinese Water Torture at least count as our first foray into the Asian market?;)

[Moose Milligan]

I think the implication is that AM doesn't know what the hell is doing,

Thats far from implied. Thats a fact on here, in some peoples minds.

[McNulty]

I think the implication is that AM doesn't know what the hell is doing,

Oh sure, I got what he's implying there. I just think that's a ridiculous implication to make about a guy with MacPhail's experience level. Its not his first rodeo.

[TonySoprano]

This will keep MacPhail more....regular

<img src=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51hm9isFTzL._SL500_AA280_PIbundle-6,TopRight,0,0_AA280_SH20_.jpg></img>

[Fairfax Bird]

Oh sure, I got what he's implying there. I just think that's a ridiculous implication to make about a guy with MacPhail's experience level. Its not his first rodeo.

We agree ... I think there is a fair bit of sour grapes in that FO cause people who were important are no longer important.

[Fan4Life]

That's Hendrickson's job. He's 6' 9" you know and can get to those hard-to-reach places in the warehouse.

It's only hard to locate by Oriole pitchers..... :D

Home plate is an irregular pentagon. The front is 17 inches wide, faces the pitcher, and defines the width of the strike zone. Then parallel sides 8.5 inches long connect to the foul lines. Finally 12 inch sides run down the foul lines, connecting where the foul lines meet.

[TakebackOPACY]

That's Hendrickson's job. He's 6' 9" you know and can get to those hard-to-reach places in the warehouse.

They spent $1.5m on Hendrickson to replace Flanagan and a ladder?

I guess that supports the theory that MacPhail is lazy, but debunks the theory that he's unwilling to spend money. I mean $1.5m? I'll bring my own ladder for $50k.

[Boy Howdy]

We agree ... I think there is a fair bit of sour grapes in that FO cause people who were important are no longer important.

You mean...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIBGaFFvcKE

[foxfield]

I hate Andy Macphai! Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

Fixed this for you!

[Shopay]

We agree ... I think there is a fair bit of sour grapes in that FO cause people who were important are no longer important.

Makes sense to me.

[brvn52]

Fixed this for you!

Now that's uncalled for. Bigbird goes out on a limb for us and gives us inside pieces of information we'd otherwise not have and he can only report the information that's given to him. So his guy maybe doesn't have the greatest opinion of MacPhail or even Bigbird doesn't even have the greatest opinion, so what? There's no reason for that post. I guarantee you Bigbird does not hate MacPhail. He, like everyone else here, is allowed to formulate their own opinion on MacPhail. No reason to call him out like that.

BB, thanks as always for the information.

[Lucky Jim]

Now that's uncalled for. Bigbird goes out on a limb for us and gives us inside pieces of information we'd otherwise not have and he can only report the information that's given to him. So his guy maybe doesn't have the greatest opinion of MacPhail or even Bigbird doesn't even have the greatest opinion, so what? There's no reason for that post. I guarantee you Bigbird does not hate MacPhail. He, like everyone else here, is allowed to formulate their own opinion on MacPhail. No reason to call him out like that.

BB, thanks as always for the information.

Yes. Objective reporting of the facts is most definitely what's up here.

[brvn52]

Yes. Objective reporting of the facts is most definitely what's up here.

He's just reporting what he hears. I don't know what else you expect him to do.

[Miller192]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg

"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me"

[Fairfax Bird]

He's just reporting what he hears. I don't know what else you expect him to do.

Your right, he should and if he does he should expect the praise and the criticism, though I agree that there needs to be a line.

[RShack]

To review:
Some desirable FA's got more years/money than AM was willing to give.
Nobody knows what AM might be up to.
Whatever he does, he's probably gonna get some pitching.
So, what else is new?
Couldn't you say the same thing on any of the other 364 days of the year?
The only new part was the expectation that "AM will make panic moves very soon". I think that is a new idea.

[TonySoprano]

<img src=http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg></img>

Andy MacPhail observes the diehard crowd near the end of the 2009 season.

[McNulty]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg

I think I can see someone who can throw strikes. Send Flanagan...

[Miller192]

<img src=http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg></img>

Andy MacPhail observes the diehard crowd near the end of the 2009 season.

That's why I like you.....I was going to write the same thing but decided to go with Stuart Smiley...LOL

[ChaosLex]

In the immortal words of Bender, "we're boned."

[carolinaoriole]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

Just my opinion but I think AM is doing a heck of a good job
I am really looking forward to the next several years

[dsizzlevt]

What constitutes a "panic move?"

What if MacPhail signs Jon Garland to a 4 year, $40 million contract? Some fans might consider that a smart move, while others might call it a panic move. What about Adam Dunn for 5 years, $60 million? Smart or panic move?

We need players. I haven't seen anything so far that would make me think Andy MacPhail is willing to make a "panic move."

[BaltimoreTerp]

Were they playing the Angels?

As a matter of fact, yes they were :)

[ChaosLex]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg

Heehee. I can't believe some folks are still buying season tickets.

[Mike B]

I thought MCClane played for the Ravens? :)

That is Robert McClune. He is a Marine so he might be able to save the warehouse.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Now that's uncalled for. Bigbird goes out on a limb for us and gives us inside pieces of information we'd otherwise not have and he can only report the information that's given to him. So his guy maybe doesn't have the greatest opinion of MacPhail or even Bigbird doesn't even have the greatest opinion, so what? There's no reason for that post. I guarantee you Bigbird does not hate MacPhail. He, like everyone else here, is allowed to formulate their own opinion on MacPhail. No reason to call him out like that.

BB, thanks as always for the information.


He's just reporting what he hears. I don't know what else you expect him to do.

How do you know?

[Pushmonkey]

Just out of curiosity...beside Tex.. what possible free agent would have people truly thought the O's would sign?

Looking at the list of free agents it looks kind of weak.

[brvn52]

<img src=http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg></img>

Andy MacPhail observes the diehard crowd near the end of the 2009 season.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

That's great. Rep to you!

[carolinaoriole]

A panic move seems like the last thing AM would do. That's completely against his style.

I agree the man knows what he is doing why would he panic?
He has built teams before.
Imagine working with people that Like this that go around saying things like that.
If I worked at a place that I thought was a cluster, well I would quit.

[TonySoprano]

Heehee. I can't believe some folks are still buying season tickets. [John is having a bowl of soup]
John: What's this? [Pulling out a slip of paper]
Ringo: It's a season ticket. What did you think?
John: Oh, I like a lot of seasoning in my soup.

[Mike B]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

It would be interesting to see which players. Other than Tex, I am not sure who we wanted that has been signed. To me there is no need to panic. It is getting late and there are plenty of FA pitchers. Go sign a Sheets and the off season outlook improves.

[brvn52]

How do you know?

You're right, there's no way of telling for sure, but Tony and staff have looked into Bigbird's source and it's validity and they have deemed it valid. If they believe he's reporting factual information from an inside source, then I do too.

[BaltimoreTerp]

You're right, there's no way of telling for sure, but Tony and staff have looked into Bigbird's source and it's validity and they have deemed it valid. If they believe he's reporting factual information from an inside source, then I do too.

They don't believe that; in fact, they will tell you that.

Just because someone has a source doesn't mean what they say is true and accurate, either because things change or because people don't.

[JTrea81]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

Mark Teixeira and AJ Burnett I presume...

Hopefully Angelos has a big fire under his butt to get things done. Pete's wallet is going to get pretty light if Andy doesn't get his butt in gear.

I have no problem with Sheets and Dunn as panic moves...

[rochester]

Those guys aren't armed with computers, too much time on their hands and dangerous baseball statistics.

Moose:
When is the cavalry coming?

[JTrea81]

I agree the man knows what he is doing why would he panic?


Maybe his job is on the line?

[carolinaoriole]

And how exactly does that smell?

Like money? :wedge:

There is no sale.
That is internet lunacy.

[rochester]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

Should this be under played?
Anyway, does this mean PA would have went to the moon for AJ and Tex and AM did not follow his orders?

Does PA want Nick and BRob extended?

That would be just like Angelos to throw away a bunch of his money:rolleyestf:

[JTrea81]

Should this be under played?
Anyway, does this mean PA would have went to the moon for AJ and Tex and AM did not follow his orders?


Now that would be an interesting turn of events. Angelos told MacPhail to go buy a Ferrari, and he went out and bought an Ford Escort...

Now MacPhail is seeing what he can get for a Porsche...

[RShack]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg

"Every morning, I decide which one of my big clunky rings to wear that day.
I can't wait to wear one with a bird on it."

[rochester]

There is no sale.
That is internet lunacy.

I resent this remark..now give me back my meds:D

[Moose Milligan]

Moose:
When is the cavalry coming?

Looks like they're arriving...

[Mike B]

No knock on the notorious B.I.G.(bird), but I'm sensing that you're on to something here.

Agreed. AM does not seem the panicky type, if he was Bedard would have been traded for far less. There is no reason th panick with so many players still on the market. I really enjoy BB's info but if we want to do something we still can. As someone said, if panicking means Sheets or Dunn, Perez or the Japanese guys great. That only costs PGA's money. He owes us. As for ticket sales being down.......now I believe there is panic over that.

[Miller192]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg

"Every morning, I decide which one of my big clunky rings to wear that day.
I can't wait to wear one with a bird on it."

You think Andy is going to the Cardinals? ;)

[JTrea81]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg


I wish I'd never left Chicago...

[brvn52]

They don't believe that; in fact, they will tell you that.

Just because someone has a source doesn't mean what they say is true and accurate, either because things change or because people don't.

But then back to my original point, don't bash BB for reporting what he hears if the mods allow it.

You can question whether you believe whatever he said will happen or not, but you shouldn't bash BB for just passing along what he hears.

[rochester]

Now that would be an interesting turn of events. Angelos told MacPhail to go buy a Ferrari, and he went out and bought an Ford Escort...

Now MacPhail is seeing what he can get for a Porsche...

Which also means that if Belky's contact is on the PA side of things then he was right...which may be the case...

Where is Kojak?

[Moose Milligan]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg


"I wonder if that Sports Guy kid can really do my job better than me?...

..guess he'll never find out!!! BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...."

[rochester]

Looks like they're arriving...

Where I don't see them General... I pray that it's soon...I have hit my posting limit and do not know what else to say..

[bej6789]

Forgive me, but after this whole Tex ordeal... I'm not believing a thing that comes out of the warehouse. Insider posts, Roch or Schmuck -- I'm at that kind of stalemate where it's just it'll happen when it happens. Reading into this or that got me nowhere.

[ChaosLex]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

You mean players somehow take offense when a losing franchise lowballs them? Surely you jest!

[TakebackOPACY]

As a matter of fact, yes they were :)


Saturday night, the O's find themselves in the thick of a heated battle as the Angels are struggling to remain ahead of the A's in the West. They blast Dave Schmidt for five runs in 5 2/3 innings. The Orioles struggle to get back in it, but the Angels pull ahead again and again, finally establishing a 7-3 lead in the seventh. In their half, though, the O's strike back on a Steve Finley single and a two run triple by Joltin' Joe Orsulak. Still, they trail 7-6 and the Angels score again in the eighth frame and again in the ninth. When the O's come up for their last gasp, they still trail by 2. But with one out, Mickey Tettleton and Randy Milligan both draw walks. Both advance on a wild pitch. Larry Sheets, who has not had a successful pinch hit opportunity all season, unbelievably picks now to deliver a two run single, tying the contest. The bedlam has barely subsided when Mike Devereuax steps to the plate again and delivers a blast down the left field line. Its curving, curving, curving...HOME RUN !!! In a game they never led until the last pitch, the O's pull out another improbable victory. While the crowd cheers, Angels manager Doug Rader and coach Marcel Lacheman go berserk at third at the call of umpire Jim Joyce. After looking at the replays ten times, no one can be sure if it was fair, or foul. But it counted.

http://www.birdsinthebelfry.com/1989_coming_out_of_the_break.htm

[ChaosLex]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg

On the plus side, I can pick my nose anywhere I damn well please and not have to worry about anyone seeing me.

[JTrea81]

You mean players somehow take offense when a losing franchise lowballs them? Surely you jest!

Nah if they want to play in Baltimore, they'll simply take the lowest amount on the table. Otherwise they never could have possibly wanted to play for the Orioles. Don't you know any better! ;)

[carolinaoriole]

Maybe his job is on the line?

Why ?
A lot of teams have not signed a single free agent.
A month ago we were all excited about the young team that AM was building.
What in the world happened to that?

[Mike B]

Mark Teixeira and AJ Burnett I presume...

Hopefully Angelos has a big fire under his butt to get things done. Pete's wallet is going to get pretty light if Andy doesn't get his butt in gear.

I have no problem with Sheets and Dunn as panic moves...

Your dreaming if you think PGA told him get Burnett and Tex and gave him a blank check. Especially with AJ, PGA would never, ever give a pitcher with an injury history 5/80 plus. In addition, if Scott Boras had any sense that PGA would go to the moon for Tex he would have gone to PGA. He is not above that. You can believe Tex desperately wanted to be here. I can believe he wanted to be exactly where he signed.

[JTrea81]

Why ?
A lot of teams have not signed a single free agent.
A month ago we were all excited about the young team that AM was building.
What in the world happened to that?

Maybe Angelos started seeing those lower ticket orders and wasn't happy. Remember he did tell MacPhail to be aggressive this offseason, and MacPhail has been anything but.

[The Rick]

Why ?
A lot of teams have not signed a single free agent.
A month ago we were all excited about the young team that AM was building.
What in the world happened to that?

In fairness, in professional sports EVERYONE'S job is on the line... just ask Mike Shanahan.

But to suggest that AM's job is more on the line than it was this time last year would be insane.

[Moose Milligan]

Maybe Angelos started seeing those lower ticket orders and wasn't happy. Remember he did tell MacPhail to be aggressive this offseason, and MacPhail has been anything but.

Hey, I feel like I've asked you this before...but doesn't Angelos still have to have final say on all deals?

It's not possible that Angelos might have nixed something or told MacPhail that he couldn't make a higher bid on a player right?

Nahhhhhhh, that'd never happen.

[estherhouse]

In fairness, in professional sports EVERYONE'S job is on the line... just ask Mike Shanahan.

But to suggest that AM's job is more on the line than it was this time last year would be insane.
Agreed. Even the Orioles aren't that dysfunctional (i think).

[Jagwar]

Jagwar: Oh Magic 8 Ball... have these hostage threads run their course?


<img src="http://blamethedirge.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/07/31/magic8ball.gif">

[Pickles]

Maybe Angelos started seeing those lower ticket orders and wasn't happy. Remember he did tell MacPhail to be aggressive this offseason, and MacPhail has been anything but.

When was this? And how do you know this?

[Fairfax Bird]

Maybe Angelos started seeing those lower ticket orders and wasn't happy. Remember he did tell MacPhail to be aggressive this offseason, and MacPhail has been anything but.

Did he tell him to be aggressive, or that he 'could' be aggressive. Big difference.

[JTrea81]

In fairness, in professional sports EVERYONE'S job is on the line... just ask Mike Shanahan.

But to suggest that AM's job is more on the line than it was this time last year would be insane.

He had the rebuilding thing going for him as fans wanted him to trade Bedard and Tejada and move on. But there was an opportunity the fans wanted him to try to take advantage of and speed up the rebuilding this offseason, and he totally ignored them and the lower ticket sales are showing the results of that strategy. Fans aren't buying what the Orioles are selling and are fed up with the team, and Angelos and the Orioles right now are taking a ton of flak for their approach.

This offseason the Orioles are going to lose a ton of fans unless they do something drastic...

[Fairfax Bird]

Jagwar: Oh Magic 8 Ball... have these hostage threads run their course?


<img src="http://blamethedirge.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/07/31/magic8ball.gif">

Awesome, rep to you.

These threads aren't over until we sign Mark Texieria.

[Dwight Schrute]

Hey, I feel like I've asked you this before...but doesn't Angelos still have to have final say on all deals?

It's not possible that Angelos might have nixed something or told MacPhail that he couldn't make a higher bid on a player right?

Nahhhhhhh, that'd never happen.

Don't let logic get in your way. There's no way a certain vertically challenged owner can't reach the bottom of his deep pockets is there?:scratchchinhmm:

[Mike B]

Why ?
A lot of teams have not signed a single free agent.
A month ago we were all excited about the young team that AM was building.
What in the world happened to that?

Some like our friend JTrea just can not handle the Texiera thing. That is what happened. In fairness though signings like Hendrickson fuels the fire for the people who have decided to hate AM. I look at it as an extra left handed body and someone wh o can pitch the middle innings when a starter falters.

[Fairfax Bird]

He had the rebuilding thing going for him as fans wanted him to trade Bedard and Tejada and move on. But there was an opportunity the fans wanted him to try to take advantage of and speed up the rebuilding this offseason, and he totally ignored them and the lower ticket sales are showing the results of that strategy. Fans aren't buying what the Orioles are selling and are fed up with the team, and Angelos and the Orioles right now are taking a ton of flak for their approach.

This offseason the Orioles are going to lose a ton of fans unless they do something drastic...

Or lower ticket sales means that its January and the city is focused on the Ravens. If we are re-building we are re-building and you keep forgetting that just because you want a certain player to play here, doesn't mean said player wants to be here. How long until this team looses you as a fan?

[The Rick]

He had the rebuilding thing going for him as fans wanted him to trade Bedard and Tejada and move on. But there was an opportunity the fans wanted him to try to take advantage of and speed up the rebuilding this offseason, and he totally ignored them and the lower ticket sales are showing the results of that strategy. Fans aren't buying what the Orioles are selling and are fed up with the team, and Angelos and the Orioles right now are taking a ton of flak for their approach.

This offseason the Orioles are going to lose a ton of fans unless they do something drastic...

Well the direction of the Orioles isn't about this offseason, I thought you knew that. Now I would have loved to land Tex just as much as anyone else (except for you, because that's not possible), but the mere idea that AM's job may be in jeopardy because he isn't doing what the "fans want him to do" is just ridiculous. Come on man.

[Jagwar]

Awesome, rep to you.

These threads aren't over until we sign Mark Texieria.

So you're saying there's a chance...?

[McNulty]

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!

That is all.

[estherhouse]

Or lower ticket sales means that its January and the city is focused on the Ravens. If we are re-building we are re-building and you keep forgetting that just because you want a certain player to play here, doesn't mean said player wants to be here. How long until this team looses you as a fan?
Or maybe the economy has something to do with it.

[JTrea81]

Well the direction of the Orioles isn't about this offseason, I thought you knew that. Now I would have loved to land Tex just as much as anyone else (except for you, because that's not possible), but the mere idea that AM's job may be in jeopardy because he isn't doing what the "fans want him to do" is just ridiculous. Come on man.

I'm insinuating that his job is on the line because maybe he didn't do what Angelos wanted him to do and now the Orioles are losing attendance for 2009 left and right because of it...

[The Rick]

So you're saying there's a chance...?

I knew the WOW offer was coming... after the 2016 season! ;)

[Pickles]

I'm insinuating that his job is on the line because maybe he didn't do what Angelos wanted him to do and now the Orioles are losing attendance for 2009 left and right because of it...

You need to see somebody. Seriously. You are through the looking glass.

[Fairfax Bird]

So you're saying there's a chance...?

Held Hostage - Year 8, Day 345 - Only 20 more days until Tex is a free-agent, I hear he wants to come home.:clap3:

[Pushmonkey]

Forgive me, but after this whole Tex ordeal... I'm not believing a thing that comes out of the warehouse. Insider posts, Roch or Schmuck -- I'm at that kind of stalemate where it's just it'll happen when it happens. Reading into this or that got me nowhere.

I agree!!!!!:agree::deadhorse::noinsider::bs::drek:

[carolinaoriole]

Hey, I feel like I've asked you this before...but doesn't Angelos still have to have final say on all deals?

It's not possible that Angelos might have nixed something or told MacPhail that he couldn't make a higher bid on a player right?

Nahhhhhhh, that'd never happen.

What I cannot figure out is what would Angelos be upset at AM about.
Or what anyone on this forum is upset about.
My god man we have Matt Weiters on the way.
And Adam Jones
And Nick Markakes
And Chris Tillman
And Jake Arrieta
And a lot of other young players.
If we do not get excited about that then we as fans have issues.

[Fairfax Bird]

I'm insinuating that his job is on the line because maybe he didn't do what Angelos wanted him to do and now the Orioles are losing attendance for 2009 left and right because of it...

But you don't know do you? Your just throwing something at the wall and seeing if it sticks ... popular strategy at the OH - this guy was offered for this guy two years ago - umm, no he wasn't, you just wanted that trade to happen.:rolleyes:

[JTrea81]

So, when he gave him the BE AGGRESSIVE cheer, did he bring in a high school cheerleading squad? A college squad? Or since he's now chummy with Bisciotti, the Ravens cheerleaders?



Be aggressive, B-E aggressive

B-E-A-G-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E

I don't know, but if he wasn't inspired by the Ravens' cheerleaders, I don't know what could inspire him... :D

[Dwight Schrute]

I'm insinuating that his job is on the line because maybe he didn't do what Angelos wanted him to do and now the Orioles are losing attendance for 2009 left and right because of it...

If you mean what Angelos wanted him to do was put a token offer out there that had no chance of being accepted to try to pacify the 17 remaining fans left out there than I agree with you. There is no and I mean no chance Angelos told him to do what it takes to sign Tex and Macphail didn't do that and Angelos just sat there with his hands in his lap.

[Moose Milligan]

If you mean what Angelos wanted him to do was put a token offer out there that had no chance of being accepted to try to pacify the 17 remaining fans left out there than I agree with you. There is no and I mean no chance Angelos told him to do what it takes to sign Tex and Macphail didn't do that and Angelos just sat there with his hands in his lap.

16 fans. I think someone threatened to quit being a fan on here after Tex went to the Yankees.

[Dwight Schrute]

16 fans. I think someone threatened to quit being a fan on here after Tex went to the Yankees.

Good call, forgot about that...16 fans.

[RShack]

Maybe his job is on the line?

Now that would be an interesting turn of events. Angelos told MacPhail to go buy a Ferrari, and he went out and bought an Ford Escort...

Maybe Angelos started seeing those lower ticket orders and wasn't happy. Remember he did tell MacPhail to be aggressive this offseason, and MacPhail has been anything but.

I'm insinuating that his job is on the line because maybe he didn't do what Angelos wanted him to do and now the Orioles are losing attendance for 2009 left and right because of it...
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman4481l.jpg

[JTrea81]

If you mean what Angelos wanted him to do was put a token offer out there that had no chance of being accepted to try to pacify the 17 remaining fans left out there than I agree with you. There is no and I mean no chance Angelos told him to do what it takes to sign Tex and Macphail didn't do that and Angelos just sat there with his hands in his lap.

Well as much I've bashed Angelos on here, I'd be willing to say it's plausible Angelos has given MacPhail the keys to the franchise, but after the events of this offseason, he's disappointed and ready to take them back or give them to somebody else if MacPhail can't stop the exodus of fans...

I don't know, I guess I'm just looking for anything to get MacPhail's ass moving for improving the future of this team.

[carolinaoriole]

Held Hostage - Year 8, Day 345 - Only 20 more days until Tex is a free-agent, I hear he wants to come home.:clap3:

Wow that is hilarious!!!!!!!

[rochester]

[QUOTE=ChaosLex;1600283]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0amN4cCfrA5m1/610x.jpg

I can not wait until ^%&&^% tells this BigBird guy that everything is really screwed up. Note to self: Go on OH tonight

[BaltimoreTerp]

16 fans. I think someone threatened to quit being a fan on here after Tex went to the Yankees.

15, since at least one person went completely Wacko for Flacco afterwards. And I'm NOT talking about anything to do with the Ravens.

[Moose Milligan]

Well as much I've bashed Angelos on here, I'd be willing to say it's plausible Angelos has given MacPhail the keys to the franchise,

It's definitely plausible....and you'll continue to act like its the truth.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Well as much I've bashed Angelos on here, I'd be willing to say it's plausible Angelos has given MacPhail the keys to the franchise, but after the events of this offseason, he's disappointed and ready to take them back or give them to somebody else if MacPhail can't stop the exodus of fans...

If he does something like that to "stop" the exodus of fans, he'll succeed...as long as the meaning of "stop" is changed to "accelerate to the speed of light".

[SilentJames]

He had the rebuilding thing going for him as fans wanted him to trade Bedard and Tejada and move on. But there was an opportunity the fans wanted him to try to take advantage of and speed up the rebuilding this offseason, and he totally ignored them and the lower ticket sales are showing the results of that strategy. Fans aren't buying what the Orioles are selling and are fed up with the team, and Angelos and the Orioles right now are taking a ton of flak for their approach.

This offseason the Orioles are going to lose a ton of fans unless they do something drastic...

So basically you wanted the Orioles to make an omelet without breaking any eggs.

You wanted them to win a war without firing a bullet.

You wanted them pass this herd of dromedary through the eye of a needle without the use of some sort of grinder.

Oh yeah, got it - we'll get right on that.

People wanted the Orioles to rebuild through a youth movement at the same time as sacrificing draft picks and making players like Tex the richest in the game - oh wait the offer we made Tex would have made him one of the richest players in the game. The Yankees made him the FOURTH richest player in the game. JTrea, if you honestly thing that if we would have offered even money to Tex he would have come here then you are suffering from something I can't help you with. We would have had to have given him A-Rod money.

How many times do you have to read that Tex was never really interested in coming here for you to understand that he had NO intentions of singing here.

How many times have we read someone say "we should give him a number and say 'take it or leave it.'?" Well, we essentially did that - he didn't take it and now all hell breaks loose.


The something drastic is what we need to AVOID. Sammy Sosa was drastic. It was stupid and worked out worse then we ever thought it could have. If the Orioles come away with one, or maybe two, Japanese pitchers that will spark some interest if nothing else. If they extend Markakis and trade Roberts for interesting pieces that will help.

But people for the longest time, FOREVER have wanted this. A FO that has a distinct plan that they are sticking to. How long have people been just out right whining about that for the last decade? Now we have it.

MacPhail wants to build from within, focus on pitching and add pieces when the team is ready. Everyone was fine with that in November. Now we are all of the sudden "held hostage"? Spare me.

This whole situation is like we asked AM if we looked fat in these pants, and he dared to be honest.

[Moose Milligan]

So basically you wanted the Orioles to make an omelet without breaking any eggs.

You wanted them to win a war without firing a bullet.

You wanted them pass this herd of dromedary through the eye of a needle without the use of some sort of grinder.

Oh yeah, got it - we'll get right on that.

People wanted the Orioles to rebuild through a youth movement at the same time as sacrificing draft picks and making players like Tex the richest in the game - oh wait the offer we made Tex would have made him one of the richest players in the game. The Yankees made him the FOURTH richest player in the game. JTrea, if you honestly thing that if we would have offered even money to Tex he would have come here then you are suffering from something I can't help you with. We would have had to have given him A-Rod money.

How many times do you have to read that Tex was never really interested in coming here for you to understand that he had NO intentions of singing here.

How many times have we read someone say "we should give him a number and say 'take it or leave it.'?" Well, we essentially did that - he didn't take it and now all hell breaks loose.


The something drastic is what we need to AVOID. Sammy Sosa was drastic. It was stupid and worked out worse then we ever thought it could have. If the Orioles come away with one, or maybe two, Japanese pitchers that will spark some interest if nothing else. If they extend Markakis and trade Roberts for interesting pieces that will help.

But people for the longest time, FOREVER have wanted this. A FO that has a distinct plan that they are sticking to. How long have people been just out right whining about that for the last decade? Now we have it.

MacPhail wants to build from within, focus on pitching and add pieces when the team is ready. Everyone was fine with that in November. Now we are all of the sudden "held hostage"? Spare me.

This whole situation is like we asked AM if we looked fat in these pants, and he dared to be honest.

SILENT JAMES WINS THE THREAD!!!

Lock it down!

[carolinaoriole]

So basically you wanted the Orioles to make an omelet without breaking any eggs.

You wanted them to win a war without firing a bullet.

You wanted them pass this herd of dromedary through the eye of a needle without the use of some sort of grinder.

Oh yeah, got it - we'll get right on that.

People wanted the Orioles to rebuild through a youth movement at the same time as sacrificing draft picks and making players like Tex the richest in the game - oh wait the offer we made Tex would have made him one of the richest players in the game. The Yankees made him the FOURTH richest player in the game. JTrea, if you honestly thing that if we would have offered even money to Tex he would have come here then you are suffering from something I can't help you with. We would have had to have given him A-Rod money.

How many times do you have to read that Tex was never really interested in coming here for you to understand that he had NO intentions of singing here.

How many times have we read someone say "we should give him a number and say 'take it or leave it.'?" Well, we essentially did that - he didn't take it and now all hell breaks loose.


The something drastic is what we need to AVOID. Sammy Sosa was drastic. It was stupid and worked out worse then we ever thought it could have. If the Orioles come away with one, or maybe two, Japanese pitchers that will spark some interest if nothing else. If they extend Markakis and trade Roberts for interesting pieces that will help.

But people for the longest time, FOREVER have wanted this. A FO that has a distinct plan that they are sticking to. How long have people been just out right whining about that for the last decade? Now we have it.

MacPhail wants to build from within, focus on pitching and add pieces when the team is ready. Everyone was fine with that in November. Now we are all of the sudden "held hostage"? Spare me.

This whole situation is like we asked AM if we looked fat in these pants, and he dared to be honest.

A great post.
Truth is a powerful weapon.

[Lucky Jim]

So basically you wanted the Orioles to make an omelet without breaking any eggs.

You wanted them to win a war without firing a bullet.

You wanted them pass this herd of dromedary through the eye of a needle without the use of some sort of grinder.

Oh yeah, got it - we'll get right on that.

People wanted the Orioles to rebuild through a youth movement at the same time as sacrificing draft picks and making players like Tex the richest in the game - oh wait the offer we made Tex would have made him one of the richest players in the game. The Yankees made him the FOURTH richest player in the game. JTrea, if you honestly thing that if we would have offered even money to Tex he would have come here then you are suffering from something I can't help you with. We would have had to have given him A-Rod money.

How many times do you have to read that Tex was never really interested in coming here for you to understand that he had NO intentions of singing here.

How many times have we read someone say "we should give him a number and say 'take it or leave it.'?" Well, we essentially did that - he didn't take it and now all hell breaks loose.


The something drastic is what we need to AVOID. Sammy Sosa was drastic. It was stupid and worked out worse then we ever thought it could have. If the Orioles come away with one, or maybe two, Japanese pitchers that will spark some interest if nothing else. If they extend Markakis and trade Roberts for interesting pieces that will help.

But people for the longest time, FOREVER have wanted this. A FO that has a distinct plan that they are sticking to. How long have people been just out right whining about that for the last decade? Now we have it.

MacPhail wants to build from within, focus on pitching and add pieces when the team is ready. Everyone was fine with that in November. Now we are all of the sudden "held hostage"? Spare me.

This whole situation is like we asked AM if we looked fat in these pants, and he dared to be honest.


SILENT JAMES WINS THE THREAD!!!

Lock it down!

Sure. But only on a technicality.

Wait, didn't Carlos Delgado get in trouble for that back in 2002?

[Moose Milligan]

Silent James, I wish I could rep you twice for that post man.

[JTrea81]

So basically you wanted the Orioles to make an omelet without breaking any eggs.

You wanted them to win a war without firing a bullet.

You wanted them pass this herd of dromedary through the eye of a needle without the use of some sort of grinder.

Oh yeah, got it - we'll get right on that.

People wanted the Orioles to rebuild through a youth movement at the same time as sacrificing draft picks and making players like Tex the richest in the game - oh wait the offer we made Tex would have made him one of the richest players in the game. The Yankees made him the FOURTH richest player in the game. JTrea, if you honestly thing that if we would have offered even money to Tex he would have come here then you are suffering from something I can't help you with. We would have had to have given him A-Rod money.

How many times do you have to read that Tex was never really interested in coming here for you to understand that he had NO intentions of singing here.

How many times have we read someone say "we should give him a number and say 'take it or leave it.'?" Well, we essentially did that - he didn't take it and now all hell breaks loose.


The something drastic is what we need to AVOID. Sammy Sosa was drastic. It was stupid and worked out worse then we ever thought it could have. If the Orioles come away with one, or maybe two, Japanese pitchers that will spark some interest if nothing else. If they extend Markakis and trade Roberts for interesting pieces that will help.

But people for the longest time, FOREVER have wanted this. A FO that has a distinct plan that they are sticking to. How long have people been just out right whining about that for the last decade? Now we have it.

MacPhail wants to build from within, focus on pitching and add pieces when the team is ready. Everyone was fine with that in November. Now we are all of the sudden "held hostage"? Spare me.

This whole situation is like we asked AM if we looked fat in these pants, and he dared to be honest.

It's a down FA market, the Orioles have cash to spend and a ton of payroll coming off the books, and the FA market stinks in 2010, so now is a good time to buy low. When you can get Adam Dunn at a 20-30% discount that's a pretty good sale, ditto for Ben Sheets.

The plan itself is fine, but we've got better than expected results from the trades and the drafts that were made so with the resources we have and the down FA market, we should be able to take advantage and grab some pieces that will speed up the rebuilding.

Look at Billy Beane. He traded for Holliday and now is looking at signing Giambi, why? Because somebody is going to need to drive in those runs so those young arms that Oakland has coming up won't have to pitch a shutout every time out. Right now in 2010 and beyond the offense has a ton of holes, and that's when we are supposed to be depending on our young arms. So you are either going to put a ton of pressure on Jones and Wieters to mature quick as well as Markakis to drive in those runs, or the young pitchers will think they'll have to pitch a shutout every time they take the mound.

Right now we've got an opportunity to get that hitting behind those pitchers in a depressed FA market with a big time quality bat available. There are also some quality arms that are available that will allow us to take some of the pressure off of the young starters and Guthrie as well. There is an opportunity out there to still get good not mediocre talent and still build for the future. It doesn't have to be a complete tear down and build up at the ML level. We've got a bunch of the pieces, but we've got to support them to give them a chance...

[SilentJames]

Silent James, I wish I could rep you twice for that post man.

SJ Incorporated, installing and servicing honesty and reason since 2004.

[dan-O]

Andy MacPhail does not make panic moves. That's all that really needs to be said. He's got a plan and he's doing it methodically, like nails on a chalkboard to the average desperate O's fan. Tex was the exception to the plan. Other than that, this offseason has been right about where it should be. Selling Ramon Hernandez. Looking into stopgap pitching. Signing a defensive shortstop to stop the revolving door. Possibly trading or extending Roberts. Extending Markakis. Do these things and it's a success.

As a fan, I do not get taken hostage. I just root for my team.

[oriofan8]

At least we are not Pittsburgh Pirates fans...I believe as a "small market" team...AM will be looked at down the road as a good GM. I see us as a TB replica. We have a lot of good stuff in prospects that may become "stars".

I only wish AM was a bit more sporadic. Good deal....do it !!

He is too slow to decide...me thinks.

[bsebllfan4life]

Silent James, I wish I could rep you twice for that post man.

took care of that for u

[SilentJames]

Yes, Jason Giambi that is who I want on my team.

An overweight post-roider schlub that enjoys the following 1) being a fat slob 2) not fielding a position 3) Making too much money and frilly frilly undies.

The A's situatin is MUCH MUCH different then ours is. The A's mgiht be one bat away from contention in a western division that is closer than it probably appears right now.

The Orioles have to jump THREE teams, at least to do that. Signings like Giambi are stupid for us. Dunn I am with you on - but the fact that no one is on this guy makes me wonder about him.

Would like to have Sheets, but why pay for a guy that could easily miss one third of the season when you could be giving a spot to someone like Arrieta, or Penn (if he earns it.)

Pitchers we should be looking for are guys that can eat innings, keep walks down and be willing to get out in 2 years if need be. Ben Sheets' injury problems (the failure to pitch more than 180 innnings a year) is not a good fit for us when we are trying to bring along young arms.

[JTrea81]

SJ Incorporated, installing and servicing honesty and reason since 2004.

Tell me, what is the Orioles excuse with having MASN and revenue sharing, and a ton of money coming of the books, for becoming the Twins or Rays, two small market franchises with no RSNs?

Do you really believe this team has to rely only on talent from within given the resources the Orioles have?

Do you really think we can get to the Rays or Twins level of scouting and development by 2011?

I'm glad they have a plan, but the plan is wrong based on the division the Orioles are in and the resources they have.

The Orioles have an opportunity to speed up the rebuilding, and put a better product on the field and not really impact the future of the franchise, so why should they completely pass on it?

[Pushmonkey]

Yes, Jason Giambi that is who I want on my team.

An overweight post-roider schlub that enjoys the following 1) being a fat slob 2) not fielding a position 3) Making too much money and frilly frilly undies.

The A's situatin is MUCH MUCH different then ours is. The A's mgiht be one bat away from contention in a western division that is closer than it probably appears right now.

The Orioles have to jump THREE teams, at least to do that. Signings like Giambi are stupid for us. Dunn I am with you on - but the fact that no one is on this guy makes me wonder about him.

Would like to have Sheets, but why pay for a guy that could easily miss one third of the season when you could be giving a spot to someone like Arrieta, or Penn (if he earns it.)

Pitchers we should be looking for are guys that can eat innings, keep walks down and be willing to get out in 2 years if need be. Ben Sheets' injury problems (the failure to pitch more than 180 innnings a year) is not a good fit for us when we are trying to bring along young arms.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SilentJames again.

[Lucky Jim]

Tell me, what is the Orioles excuse with having MASN and revenue sharing, and a ton of money coming of the books, for becoming the Twins or Rays, two small market franchises with no RSNs?

Do you really believe this team has to rely only on talent from within given the resources the Orioles have?

Do you really think we can get to the Rays or Twins level of scouting and development by 2011?

I'm glad they have a plan, but the plan is wrong based on the division the Orioles are in and the resources they have.

The Orioles have an opportunity to speed up the rebuilding, and put a better product on the field and not really impact the future of the franchise, so why should they completely pass on it?

Do I trust JTrea's long-range planning and cool analytical approach? Or do I trust Andy MacPhail's rash hysteria? This is a tough one. I'll get back to you.

[McNulty]

It's a down FA market, the Orioles have cash to spend and a ton of payroll coming off the books, and the FA market stinks in 2010, so now is a good time to buy low. When you can get Adam Dunn at a 20-30% discount that's a pretty good sale, ditto for Ben Sheets.

The plan itself is fine, but we've got better than expected results from the trades and the drafts that were made so with the resources we have and the down FA market, we should be able to take advantage and grab some pieces that will speed up the rebuilding.

Look at Billy Beane. He traded for Holliday and now is looking at signing Giambi, why? Because somebody is going to need to drive in those runs so those young arms that Oakland has coming up won't have to pitch a shutout every time out. Right now in 2010 and beyond the offense has a ton of holes, and that's when we are supposed to be depending on our young arms. So you are either going to put a ton of pressure on Jones and Wieters to mature quick as well as Markakis to drive in those runs, or the young pitchers will think they'll have to pitch a shutout every time they take the mound.

Right now we've got an opportunity to get that hitting behind those pitchers in a depressed FA market with a big time quality bat available. There are also some quality arms that are available that will allow us to take some of the pressure off of the young starters and Guthrie as well. There is an opportunity out there to still get good not mediocre talent and still build for the future. It doesn't have to be a complete tear down and build up at the ML level. We've got a bunch of the pieces, but we've got to support them to give them a chance...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Rays just win the pennant with an offense that wasn't exactly the Gashouse Gang? These are the OPS+ numbers for their starters:

C #Dioner Navarro 98
1B *Carlos Pena 127
2B *Akinori Iwamura 92
3B Evan Longoria 125
SS Jason Bartlett 82
LF *Carl Crawford 87
CF B.J. Upton 107
RF *Gabe Gross 100
DH *Cliff Floyd 109

C Ramon Hernandez 86
1B Kevin Millar 87
2B #Brian Roberts 117
3B Melvin Mora 114
SS Juan Castro 42
LF *Luke Scott 109
CF Adam Jones 85
RF *Nick Markakis 134
DH *Aubrey Huff 135

Now, if you figure Wieters can match Longoria's 2008 season, Markakis maintains (or improves) and Adam Jones can get up into the low 100s, I'd argue that even with losing Huff, Roberts and Mora we'd be pretty close to matching that production with whomever AM gets to fill those slots.

Its the young pitching that was the key, and he is clearly working on building that up. So chill out man.

[JTrea81]

Yes, Jason Giambi that is who I want on my team.

An overweight post-roider schlub that enjoys the following 1) being a fat slob 2) not fielding a position 3) Making too much money and frilly frilly undies.

The A's situatin is MUCH MUCH different then ours is. The A's mgiht be one bat away from contention in a western division that is closer than it probably appears right now.

The Orioles have to jump THREE teams, at least to do that. Signings like Giambi are stupid for us. Dunn I am with you on - but the fact that no one is on this guy makes me wonder about him.

Would like to have Sheets, but why pay for a guy that could easily miss one third of the season when you could be giving a spot to someone like Arrieta, or Penn (if he earns it.)

Pitchers we should be looking for are guys that can eat innings, keep walks down and be willing to get out in 2 years if need be. Ben Sheets' injury problems (the failure to pitch more than 180 innnings a year) is not a good fit for us when we are trying to bring along young arms.

Sheets pitched more innings than any Orioles starter last year and only missed 200 IP by 1.7. He also pitched 200+ innings from 2002-2004. Take a look at his medical records. If he's hurt then don't sign him but at least check into him...

[Shopay]

So basically you wanted the Orioles to make an omelet without breaking any eggs.

You wanted them to win a war without firing a bullet.

You wanted them pass this herd of dromedary through the eye of a needle without the use of some sort of grinder.

Oh yeah, got it - we'll get right on that.

People wanted the Orioles to rebuild through a youth movement at the same time as sacrificing draft picks and making players like Tex the richest in the game - oh wait the offer we made Tex would have made him one of the richest players in the game. The Yankees made him the FOURTH richest player in the game. JTrea, if you honestly thing that if we would have offered even money to Tex he would have come here then you are suffering from something I can't help you with. We would have had to have given him A-Rod money.

How many times do you have to read that Tex was never really interested in coming here for you to understand that he had NO intentions of singing here.

How many times have we read someone say "we should give him a number and say 'take it or leave it.'?" Well, we essentially did that - he didn't take it and now all hell breaks loose.


The something drastic is what we need to AVOID. Sammy Sosa was drastic. It was stupid and worked out worse then we ever thought it could have. If the Orioles come away with one, or maybe two, Japanese pitchers that will spark some interest if nothing else. If they extend Markakis and trade Roberts for interesting pieces that will help.

But people for the longest time, FOREVER have wanted this. A FO that has a distinct plan that they are sticking to. How long have people been just out right whining about that for the last decade? Now we have it.

MacPhail wants to build from within, focus on pitching and add pieces when the team is ready. Everyone was fine with that in November. Now we are all of the sudden "held hostage"? Spare me.

This whole situation is like we asked AM if we looked fat in these pants, and he dared to be honest.

Nice post James.

[Moose Milligan]

Tell me, what is the Orioles excuse with having MASN and revenue sharing, and a ton of money coming of the books, for becoming the Twins or Rays, two small market franchises with no RSNs?

Do you really believe this team has to rely only on talent from within given the resources the Orioles have?

Do you really think we can get to the Rays or Twins level of scouting and development by 2011?

I'm glad they have a plan, but the plan is wrong based on the division the Orioles are in and the resources they have.

The Orioles have an opportunity to speed up the rebuilding, and put a better product on the field and not really impact the future of the franchise, so why should they completely pass on it?

Dude, when are you gonna realize that the O's are going to have to get good on their own first before quality FA's are remotely interested in coming here?

Witness Burrell signing with Tampa today.

[SilentJames]

Tell me, what is the Orioles excuse with having MASN and revenue sharing, and a ton of money coming of the books, for becoming the Twins or Rays, two small market franchises with no RSNs?

Do you really believe this team has to rely only on talent from within given the resources the Orioles have?

Do you really think we can get to the Rays or Twins level of scouting and development by 2011?

I'm glad they have a plan, but the plan is wrong based on the division the Orioles are in and the resources they have.

The Orioles have an opportunity to speed up the rebuilding, and put a better product on the field and not really impact the future of the franchise, so why should they completely pass on it?

But my point is you were fine with that plan in November. 90% of the people on this board were fine in November.

Then Tex happened and now half the board has turned back into the whiners of old.

Why pass on it. Because we would have had to make Tex the SECOND highest paid player in the league. Get it? Are you willing to make Tex the next A-Rod for ten years and then probably give him some sort of NTC or opt-out clause.

Because he didn't want to play here - that is what it would have taken. We would have had to give him a ridiculous contract one that very well might have impact some near-future plans.

Now I wanted him here, but he didn't want us. As the man said: "he's just not that into you."

Outside of Tex, as you said yourself it is a down year. Why not become the Twins? you mean the team that is a perennial contender? I thought we should be modeling the Rays? Now, all of the sudden, we need to open the coffers and become NYC-South?

I mean, I'm confused. We need to build a base first, then add the other things.

[Travis McGee]

Tell me, what is the Orioles excuse with having MASN and revenue sharing, and a ton of money coming of the books, for becoming the Twins or Rays, two small market franchises with no RSNs?

Do you really believe this team has to rely only on talent from within given the resources the Orioles have?

Do you really think we can get to the Rays or Twins level of scouting and development by 2011?

I'm glad they have a plan, but the plan is wrong based on the division the Orioles are in and the resources they have.

The Orioles have an opportunity to speed up the rebuilding, and put a better product on the field and not really impact the future of the franchise, so why should they completely pass on it?

If anything, I think being in the division we are in justifies the plan. Our resources might be as good or better than most teams but pale in comparison to NY and Boston.

[SilentJames]

Sheets pitched more innings than any Orioles starter last year and only missed 200 IP by 1.7. He also pitched 200+ innings from 2002-2004. Take a look at his medical records. If he's hurt then don't sign him but at least check into him...

You think they HAVEN'T?!

I mean Sheets problems are common knowledge man. Watch baseball the last few years and he goes down a ton.

2004 was 2004. Roger Clemens was great in 04 lets sign him to a one year deal.

[ChaosLex]

Credit goes to Elon Os Fan for finding this.

Looks like BRob-Floyd has been shot down by Kenny Williams. :(

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1192

[El Gordo]

So basically you wanted the Orioles to make an omelet without breaking any eggs.

You wanted them to win a war without firing a bullet.

You wanted them pass this herd of dromedary through the eye of a needle without the use of some sort of grinder.

Oh yeah, got it - we'll get right on that.

People wanted the Orioles to rebuild through a youth movement at the same time as sacrificing draft picks and making players like Tex the richest in the game - oh wait the offer we made Tex would have made him one of the richest players in the game. The Yankees made him the FOURTH richest player in the game. JTrea, if you honestly thing that if we would have offered even money to Tex he would have come here then you are suffering from something I can't help you with. We would have had to have given him A-Rod money.

How many times do you have to read that Tex was never really interested in coming here for you to understand that he had NO intentions of singing here.

How many times have we read someone say "we should give him a number and say 'take it or leave it.'?" Well, we essentially did that - he didn't take it and now all hell breaks loose.


The something drastic is what we need to AVOID. Sammy Sosa was drastic. It was stupid and worked out worse then we ever thought it could have. If the Orioles come away with one, or maybe two, Japanese pitchers that will spark some interest if nothing else. If they extend Markakis and trade Roberts for interesting pieces that will help.

But people for the longest time, FOREVER have wanted this. A FO that has a distinct plan that they are sticking to. How long have people been just out right whining about that for the last decade? Now we have it.

MacPhail wants to build from within, focus on pitching and add pieces when the team is ready. Everyone was fine with that in November. Now we are all of the sudden "held hostage"? Spare me.

This whole situation is like we asked AM if we looked fat in these pants, and he dared to be honest.
You nailed it. Rep to you. This thread and those like it are about 2 things 1) people can't deal with the fact that Tex didn't want to play here and 2) some people can't get over PA replacing Duquette with AM.

[Moose Milligan]

SilentJames is full of win tonite.

[SilentJames]

Dude, when are you gonna realize that the O's are going to have to get good on their own first before quality FA's are remotely interested in coming here?

Witness Burrell signing with Tampa today.

Tampa was also helped out by the market for corner outfielders collapsing. I mean could you imagine this time last year Manny Ramirez NOT being signed yet?

OUr problem with Tex was the Yankees had a spot for him as well. No one else, to my knowledge was really courting Burrell.

[SilentJames]

Credit goes to Elon Os Fan for finding this.

Looks like BRob-Floyd has been shot down by Kenny Williams. :(

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1192

Kenny Williams shoots down a lot of things that magically end up happening.:p

[ChaosLex]

Kenny Williams shoots down a lot of things that magically end up happening.:p

Seriously?

I don't know much about his modus operandi, so I hope you're not screwing with me. ;)

[JTrea81]

But my point is you were fine with that plan in November. 90% of the people on this board were fine in November.

Then Tex happened and now half the board has turned back into the whiners of old.

Why pass on it. Because we would have had to make Tex the SECOND highest paid player in the league. Get it? Are you willing to make Tex the next A-Rod for ten years and then probably give him some sort of NTC or opt-out clause.

Because he didn't want to play here - that is what it would have taken. We would have had to give him a ridiculous contract one that very well might have impact some near-future plans.

Now I wanted him here, but he didn't want us. As the man said: "he's just not that into you."

Outside of Tex, as you said yourself it is a down year. Why not become the Twins? you mean the team that is a perennial contender? I thought we should be modeling the Rays? Now, all of the sudden, we need to open the coffers and become NYS-South?

I mean, I'm confused. We need to build a base first, then add the other things.

You don't know how much we would have had to pay Tex and neither do I, so you can't say he wouldn't sign here. The fact is we will never truly know because the Orioles never stepped up when it counted.

And when did I say I was fine becoming the Twins or Rays? I wanted this team completely blown up if they didn't sign Tex or Burnett as that was the only option at the time for realistically getting the most talent on this team. But the situation has changed, the market is depressed and the remaining FA bats and pitchers have come down drastically in price, a price the Orioles should be able to afford. Dunn won't cost picks. Sheets will only cost a 2nd round pick. Dunn and Sheets would improve this team a ton and now they are even more affordable, so now is the time to alter the plan again.

If not they need to be having a firesale as I originally suggested, and right now besides the rumors of Roberts, I don't see them acting quick enough like Beane did when he traded Haren and Swisher within in a month last season.

Treading water should not be an option when all the other teams around you that you are trying to pass are making moves and improving their teams for the future. Go all in or fold and cash in your chips. Either way would improve the Orioles for the future and that's all I want...

[Moose Milligan]

Tampa was also helped out by the market for corner outfielders collapsing. I mean could you imagine this time last year Manny Ramirez NOT being signed yet?

OUr problem with Tex was the Yankees had a spot for him as well. No one else, to my knowledge was really courting Burrell.

Well true.

But I'm speaking to the fact that Tex WASN'T INTERESTED IN COMING HERE as you have correctly pointed out....

...and the fact that the Rays signed Burrell. I mean, last year there would have been no chance in hell that they sign a quality bat like his.

I'm not really talking about the actual players, moreso the fact that we need to start making headway on our own first before we get a good chance at signing an impact free agent.

[SilentJames]

When did I say I was fine becoming the Twins or Rays? I wanted this team completely blown up if they didn't sign Tex or Burnett. But the situation has changed, the market is depressed and the remaining FA bats and pitchers have come down drastically in price, a price the Orioles should be able to afford. Dunn won't cost picks. Sheets will only cost a 2nd round pick. Dunn and Sheets would improve this team a ton and now they are even more affordable, so now is the time to alter the plan again.

If not they need to be having a firesale as I originally suggested, and right now besides the rumors of Roberts, I don't see them actiing quick enough like Beane did when he traded Haren and Swisher within in a month.

Treading water should not be an option when all the other teams around you that you are trying to pass are making moves and improving their teams for the future.

Yeah and there are forty days left in ST. AM works slow, no one is really going anywhere and it is a method that worked well for us last year.

So lets actually wait for the guy to die before we put him on the cart, alright?.

[McNulty]

When did I say I was fine becoming the Twins or Rays? I wanted this team completely blown up if they didn't sign Tex or Burnett. But the situation has changed, the market is depressed and the remaining FA bats and pitchers have come down drastically in price, a price the Orioles should be able to afford. Dunn won't cost picks. Sheets will only cost a 2nd round pick. Dunn and Sheets would improve this team a ton and now they are even more affordable, so now is the time to alter the plan again.

If not they need to be having a firesale as I originally suggested, and right now besides the rumors of Roberts, I don't see them actiing quick enough like Beane did when he traded Haren and Swisher within in a month.

Treading water should not be an option when all the other teams around you that you are trying to pass are making moves and improving their teams for the future.

Are you seriously suggesting that the difference between blowing it up and signing a bunch of vets is one player? That in itself is a ridiculous statement, business model and plan; but to think that the rest of us are going to buy this thinking is just as ridiculous.

[SilentJames]

Seriously?

I don't know much about his modus operandi, so I hope you're not screwing with me. ;)

Didn't he have some stud young pitcher a year or so ago that he wouldn't part with and then eventually traded for not much? Or am I remembering things wrong?

Either way, I get why Williams would nix that deal.

[McNulty]

Didn't he have some stud young pitcher a year or so ago that he wouldn't part with and then eventually traded for not much? Or am I remembering things wrong?

Either way, I get why Williams would nix that deal.

Garland perhaps? I dunno.

[JTrea81]

Yeah and there are forty days left in ST. AM works slow, no one is really going anywhere and it is a method that worked well for us last year.

So lets actually wait for the guy to die before we put him on the cart, alright?.

It's a method that worked when we had chips to deal, and by all means if we are putting everybody out there, and that includes Guthrie and Markakis, then we can wait.

But Roberts isn't going to fetch a lot and signings are starting to take place on the FA market. MacPhail can't afford to wait if that's where he wants to go...

[JTrea81]

But I'm speaking to the fact that Tex WASN'T INTERESTED IN COMING HERE as you have correctly pointed out....


Again Tex wasn't interested in coming here for the lowest offer. But to say he wasn't interested in coming here period, that we will truly never know unless we hear it from Teixeira himself.

[Moose Milligan]

It's a method that worked when we had chips to deal, and by all means if we are putting everybody out there, and that includes Guthrie and Markakis, then we can wait.

But Roberts isn't going to fetch a lot and signings are starting to take place on the FA market. MacPhail can't afford to wait if that's where he wants to go...

I think we should dangle Wieters, in that case.

[JTrea81]

I think we should dangle Wieters, in that case.

In four years I might agree with you...

[RShack]

Yeah and there are forty days left in ST. AM works slow, no one is really going anywhere and it is a method that worked well for us last year.

So lets actually wait for the guy to die before we put him on the cart, alright?.
The basic problem here is that you are trying to use reason.

BTW, research recently showed that, if you provide people who have a certain belief with Actual Factual Evidence that their belief is wrong, it can actually *strengthen* their belief.
In other words, some folks are just Evidence-Proof. Thought you might wanna know this...

[Moose Milligan]

Again Tex wasn't interested in coming here for the lowest offer. But to say he wasn't interested in coming here period, that we will truly never know unless we hear it from Teixeira himself.

And again, Tex waited out all the teams until the Yankees stepped up and made an offer.

If Tex was interested in coming here he might have given the O's a chance to up their offer.

But nope, the Yanks swooped in. Seriously, practically everyone on this board has come to the realization that Tex never really was interested in coming here, except for you.

[Miller192]

The basic problem here is that you are trying to use reason.

BTW, research recently showed that, if you provide people who have a certain belief with Actual Factual Evidence that their belief is wrong, it actually *strengthens* their belief.
In other words, some folks are just Evidence-Proof. Thought you might wanna know this...

You and JTrea were just meant for each other.

[Moose Milligan]

In four years I might agree with you...

Nah, do it now. What if Wieters comes up with bad knees?

What could we get for Wieters right now?

[McNulty]

The basic problem here is that you are trying to use reason.

BTW, research recently showed that, if you provide people who have a certain belief with Actual Factual Evidence that their belief is wrong, it actually *strengthens* their belief.
In other words, some folks are just Evidence-Proof. Thought you might wanna know this...

Don't you realize how foolish you look saying these things? :D

[JTrea81]

And again, Tex waited out all the teams until the Yankees stepped up and made an offer.

If Tex was interested in coming here he might have given the O's a chance to up their offer.

But nope, the Yanks swooped in. Seriously, practically everyone on this board has come to the realization that Tex never really was interested in coming here, except for you.

He was interested, but the Orioles had to make an effort IMO, and I think he ruled us out the minute we made our 7/140 offer because it was lower than the offer he recieved from the Angels and the Nationals, two teams he didn't want to go to. He wanted the most money and we weren't offering it. That's why he didn't give us a chance to raise our offer. We lost when we lowballed him. So no I'll admit he didn't want to desperately be an Oriole, but we'll never know if we made an offer of 8/184 right out of the gate that anybody would have topped it, or that he would have turned it down to take a lower offer with the Yankees or Red Sox.

Miguel Tejada didn't have a huge attraction to the Orioles and we blew him away so he signed. We should have done the same thing with Tex.

And that's my final say on the matter.

[McNulty]

He was interested, but the Orioles had to make an effort IMO, and I think he ruled us out the minute we made our 7/140 offer because it was lower than the offer he recieved from the Angels and the Nationals, two teams he didn't want to go to. He wanted the most money and we weren't offering it. That's why he didn't give us a chance to raise our offer. We lost when we lowballed him. So no I'll admit he didn't want to desperately be an Oriole, but we'll never know if we made an offer of 8/184 right out of the gate that anybody would have topped it, or that he would have turned it down to take a lower offer with the Yankees or Red Sox.

Miguel Tejada didn't have a huge attraction to the Orioles and we blew him away so he signed. We should have done the same thing with Tex.

And that's my final say on the matter.

By this rationale he should be at Gnat. They were the ones who were willing to go the highest. Give it up man, he wasn't coming here unless we gave him WAY over market value.

[Wind Rider]

Hang in there JTREA don't let the defenders on here from the law firm and warehouse get the better of you.

You can defend Angelos all you want but you can't change the facts. He's been running this team for years to make money and been spectacularly successful.

Rebuilding means acquiring good young players to fill positions of need. He's got as you say JTREA a great opportunity here but refuses to spend. He's doing a great job of dumping salary not rebuilding.

The fans have seen through this, thank heavens, and are reacting. Attendance will be way way down. We might not even make a million in attendance. Angelos may well see revenues drop 40 million this year.

[JTrea81]

By this rationale he should be at Gnat. They were the ones who were willing to go the highest. Give it up man, he wasn't coming here unless we gave him WAY over market value.

As Ravenbird said, keep believing that if it helps you feel better about the Orioles complete lack of effort...

[carolinaoriole]

You don't know how much we would have had to pay Tex and neither do I, so you can't say he wouldn't sign here. The fact is we will never truly know because the Orioles never stepped up when it counted.

And when did I say I was fine becoming the Twins or Rays? I wanted this team completely blown up if they didn't sign Tex or Burnett as that was the only option at the time for realistically getting the most talent on this team. But the situation has changed, the market is depressed and the remaining FA bats and pitchers have come down drastically in price, a price the Orioles should be able to afford. Dunn won't cost picks. Sheets will only cost a 2nd round pick. Dunn and Sheets would improve this team a ton and now they are even more affordable, so now is the time to alter the plan again.

If not they need to be having a firesale as I originally suggested, and right now besides the rumors of Roberts, I don't see them acting quick enough like Beane did when he traded Haren and Swisher within in a month last season.

Treading water should not be an option when all the other teams around you that you are trying to pass are making moves and improving their teams for the future. Go all in or fold and cash in your chips. Either way would improve the Orioles for the future and that's all I want...

Please tell me how many world series teams has Beane built?
How many world series teams has AM built?

[Boy Howdy]

Hang in there JTREA don't let the defenders on here from the law firm and warehouse get the better of you.



Are you an enabler?

[PeteCanes]

He was interested, but the Orioles had to make an effort IMO, and I think he ruled us out the minute we made our 7/140 offer because it was lower than the offer he recieved from the Angels and the Nationals, two teams he didn't want to go to. He wanted the most money and we weren't offering it. That's why he didn't give us a chance to raise our offer. We lost when we lowballed him. So no I'll admit he didn't want to desperately be an Oriole, but we'll never know if we made an offer of 8/184 right out of the gate that anybody would have topped it, or that he would have turned it down to take a lower offer with the Yankees or Red Sox.

Miguel Tejada didn't have a huge attraction to the Orioles and we blew him away so he signed. We should have done the same thing with Tex.

And that's my final say on the matter.

phewwwwww.

[Moose Milligan]

So you think the only team Tex was interested in going was the Yanks?

The Yanks came in at the last minute with THE BEST OFFER, other than the Nats, where he was never going to go to. I'm sure you see the difference between them and the O's.

It wasn't just he waited out the Yanks, he waited for a team to give him a HIGHER OFFER.

Maybe AM told Boras, 140 is our offer, we may be able to go up to 8/160, as in being flexible.

If the Yanks offered 8/180 and Boras knew that we would be 15-25 million short, maybe he had no reason to get back to AM...or Henry..or Reagins..or Bowden.

Last minute? When was the deadline?

No, Tex waited everyone out until the Yankees came in. Through the whole agonizing ordeal, all the offers, everything, he was just waiting for the Yankees.

Did he even counter with any other teams?

Did he counter with us? Did he want to counter with us?

And no, there really isn't a difference between the O's and Nats to a quality FA. Year in, year out cellar dwellers.

He got a fat contract to play with a winner.

Again...did he give the O's a chance to up their offer? Did he give any of the other teams a chance to up their offers?

[Wind Rider]

He's flat right that this is an excellent year to enhance our rebuilding through FAs, and we won't spend.

[El Gordo]

Nah, do it now. What if Wieters comes up with bad knees?

What could we get for Wieters right now?Maybe if we traded Wieters and Markakis we could get the FL Marlins.:rofl:

[McNulty]

But it's a lot more logical to assume he wanted no part of the Nats but would have considered the O's.


This is exactly what I'm saying. The Nats offered the most money and he wasn't considering them. Ergo, if we offered the most money he wouldn't of considered us either.

If you and Trea want to come up with these weak theories about why Tex isn't here, that's fine with me. The rest of us have digested the information and surmised that he wasn't coming here. Even on the Hot Stove show this week one of the hosts said that there were indications of Tex being a Yankee fan in high school.

So quit cluttering the board with this nonsense about blowing it up because we didn't get Tex, or about how MacPhail isn't doing his job (or doing it fast enough).

[JTrea81]

Please tell me how many world series teams has Beane built?
How many world series teams has AM built?

Syd Thrift built some pretty darn good teams in the past with the Pirates, but that didn't help him when it came to the Orioles. Now I'm not saying MacPhail is senile like Thrift was, but your past accomplishments don't necessarily mean that you are going to be good in the present.

MacPhail wasn't that spectacular overseeing the Cubs, he's fleeced two of the worst GMs in the sport and people suddenly think he's going to be the best GM in baseball.

Lier X. Agerate posted a good post about how MacPhail was percieved. Like I said the only thing that he's got going for him is that he has Angelos' ear, but unfortunately he only knows one way how to build a franchise, and that model may have worked for the Twins back in the late 80's early 90's, but for a franchise in the AL East with a disenchanted fanbase coming off of 11 losing seasons and with a team with money to spend and a RSN, you would think he would take a altered approach.

[Moose Milligan]

But it was known to be coming down to the wire and he was negotiating with the Sox, O's, Nats, and Angels for over a month.

You have to figure they went back and forth with each other and Boras knew everyones final offer. When the Yanks came in with a higher offer (not even worried about the 5 million from the Nats where he would never go) then all his logical suitors, then he took it.

Look..this is Scott Boras. If Boras thought he could get the O's or Sox to offer more, you honestly don't think he'd go for it? Even if for no other reason then to drive up the price for the Yanks in the end?

No dude, cause if he wasn't going to the Nats, he wasn't coming here. Two cellar dwelling teams with money to spend...clearly it didn't matter to him.

Tex wanted to make bank AND play for a winner.

[McNulty]

Like I said the only thing that he's got going for him is that he has Angelos' ear

Oh really? That's the only thing he's got going for him? WOW. I'm quite through reading your posts.

[carolinaoriole]

Last minute? When was the deadline?

No, Tex waited everyone out until the Yankees came in. Through the whole agonizing ordeal, all the offers, everything, he was just waiting for the Yankees.

Did he even counter with any other teams?

Did he counter with us? Did he want to counter with us?

And no, there really isn't a difference between the O's and Nats to a quality FA. Year in, year out cellar dwellers.

He got a fat contract to play with a winner.

Again...did he give the O's a chance to up their offer? Did he give any of the other teams a chance to up their offers?

And the thing is the Yankees gave him more than he is worth.
The guy is not one of the top five players in baseball.
They way overpaid
Heck at 140 million the Orioles were overpaying.
I wanted him as well but at what price.
What would it have taken.

[RShack]

No dude, cause if he wasn't going to the Nats, he wasn't coming here. Two cellar dwelling teams with money to spend...clearly it didn't matter to him.

Tex wanted to make bank AND play for a winner.
The "AND" operator is a pretty basic idea.
Any ideas about why some folks don't grok it?

[Wind Rider]

No dude, cause if he wasn't going to the Nats, he wasn't coming here. Two cellar dwelling teams with money to spend...clearly it didn't matter to him.

Tex wanted to make bank AND play for a winner.

We still should have made the offer. If this is true why weren't we all over Dunn while this was going on.

[SrMeowMeow]

Syd Thrift built some pretty darn good teams in the past with the Pirates, but that didn't help him when it came to the Orioles. Now I'm not saying MacPhail is senile like Thrift was, but your past accomplishments don't necessarily mean that you are going to be good in the present.

MacPhail wasn't that spectacular overseeing the Cubs, he's fleeced two of the worst GMs in the sport and people suddenly think he's going to be the best GM in baseball.

Lier X. Agerate posted a good post about how MacPhail was percieved. Like I said the only thing that he's got going for him is that he has Angelos' ear, but unfortunately he only knows one way how to build a franchise, and that model may have worked for the Twins back in the late 80's early 90's, but for a franchise in the AL East with a disenchanted fanbase coming off of 11 losing seasons and with a team with money to spend and a RSN, you would think he would take a altered approach.

Do you honestly, actually believe the things you're saying, or has pride driven you into this corner? You literally believe only what you want to hear, ignore everything else, and twist anything in between into what you want to hear. It's incredibly frustrating to debate with you, but the inflammatory conclusions you churn out make it impossible not to.

[Moose Milligan]

Moose if you don't see the difference between the O's and Nats with regards to Tex then there's no reason to even discuss this with you.

I do.

I'm saying from a FA perspective, we're one in the same.

Yeah, we've got more talent than the Nats, but to be blunt...we're still two cellar dwelling teams. What would the pitch be from the Nats and what would the pitch be from the Orioles?

Oh wait...the same thing we pitched to Tejada:

"Come here and we'll build a winner around you. Cal, Brooks, Palmer, Frank...you can be a legend, just like them. You can be a hero to these people and restore the Orioles to glory."

Oooooh, that makes me get warm fuzzies. I know that'd attract me to Baltimore.

Hey, how'd that whole building around Tejada thing go anyway?

http://www.forwardedtome.com/images/fail/ftm_failboat.jpg

We think we're better than the Nats, as we should. Doesn't mean others do.

[carolinaoriole]

Hey Moose and everyone..you guys very well might be right.

But frankly IMO it's very annoying that we constantly hear after we miss out on guys that there's nothing more we could have done, that these guys never wanted to come here, yada yada yada. Then people move on to the Hendrickson signing and start defending that.

It is absolutely inexcusable not to put out the best offer we possibly could for Tex and give him a chance to accept it.

We should have brought him in, given him the royal treatment. Should have gotten Palmer, Brooks, Cal, BROB, Trembley, and Markakis to sell him on the O's. Should have been aggressive.

We sat on our asses the whole time waiting for Tex to call us back just to find out what "flexible" meant. Guess what, dream team or no dream team, we aren't in a position to do that to Mark Hendrickson much less Mark Teixeira.

Again, you might be right. But to blindly dismiss the small chance that Tex wanted to come here is being a bit naive and too supportive of the O's...giving them too much of the benefit of the doubt.

He said it was his dream to come here...He was obviously somewhat interested. It's naive IMO to think that he went through all this , making those comments, when deep inside he was just dying to be a NYY.

IF my dreamteam offered me 140 million dollars to play for them.
And I know that by signing with my dreamteam that I can be the absolute king of the city.
And have the possibility of being on the same Level as a hall of famer like Cal Ripken.
Which will open doors for me to make even more money.And to have even more prestige.
I would be an Oriole.
Instead this guy chose to go to New York and be in the shadows of Jeter and Arod.
Good for him.
And us.

[El Gordo]

Moose if you don't see the difference between the O's and Nats with regards to Tex then there's no reason to even discuss this with you.If you can't see the difference between the O's and the MFY's with regards to Tex then there's no point discussing this with you.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Hey Moose and everyone..you guys very well might be right.

But frankly IMO it's very annoying that we constantly hear after we miss out on guys that there's nothing more we could have done, that these guys never wanted to come here, yada yada yada. Then people move on to the Hendrickson signing and start defending that.

It is absolutely inexcusable not to put out the best offer we possibly could for Tex and give him a chance to accept it.

We should have brought him in, given him the royal treatment. Should have gotten Palmer, Brooks, Cal, BROB, Trembley, and Markakis to sell him on the O's. Should have been aggressive.

We sat on our asses the whole time waiting for Tex to call us back just to find out what "flexible" meant. Guess what, dream team or no dream team, we aren't in a position to do that to Mark Hendrickson much less Mark Teixeira.

Again, you might be right. But to blindly dismiss the small chance that Tex wanted to come here is being a bit naive and too supportive of the O's...giving them too much of the benefit of the doubt.

He said it was his dream to come here...He was obviously somewhat interested. It's naive IMO to think that he went through all this , making those comments, when deep inside he was just dying to be a NYY.

And what happens when he rejects all of that?

You think things would have been any BETTER?

I mean, you see what happened to Jtrea when we believed that Teixeira wasn't interested at all and gave up the chase. I'm afraid if all that went down he's REALLY have gone off the deep end. Like The Fan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fan_(1996_film)) or something.

[Moose Milligan]

OK...Yeah I agree we aren't the most desirable place to play. But Tex was different and made it clear over the years that he had a soft spot for Baltimore.

Oh well, it's over and done with. My one thing is, let's not be so quick to assume he wanted to be a Yankee no matter what and never would have come here.

I apologize as well if my last post came off a bit ignorant. I mean it towards Tex, not you! ;)

I think that whole time, Tex was being diplomatic. I think it was cliche riddled athlete-speak. Lets not forget he was being coached by Boras.

We aren't the most desirable place to play and thats what the Orioles get for trying to land a big time FA after mismanaging themselves for a decade. He wasn't interested.

It's all good dude, I don't take anything personally on here :) haha, hope you liked the Failboat picture, thought it was appropriate for the Orioles... :D

[JTrea81]

And what happens when he rejects all of that?

You think things would have been any BETTER?

I mean, you see what happened to Jtrea when we believed that Teixeira wasn't interested at all and gave up the chase. I'm afraid if all that went down he's REALLY have gone off the deep end. Like The Fan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fan_(1996_film)) or something.

The Orioles would have made their best effort and correctly could villify Tex to their fanbase and the fans would be united in their hatred for Tex instead of split like they are now...

The FO could have vindicated itself completely and the fans would have understood. But now, we just truly don't know and each side chooses to believe something different...

[SrMeowMeow]

The Orioles would have made their best effort and correctly could villify Tex to their fanbase and the fans would be united in their hatred for Tex instead of split like they are now...

The FO could have vindicated itself completely and the fans would have understood. But now, we just truly don't know and each side chooses to believe something different...

Why do they need to vilify Tex? Why do we need to be united in hatred? Why does the FO need to vindicate itself? How many fans on here don't understand what happened with Tex?? (Hint: it's just a few, but you wouldn't know it)

[BaltimoreTerp]

The Orioles would have made their best effort and correctly could villify Tex to their fanbase and the fans would be united in their hatred for Tex instead of split like they are now...

The FO could have vindicated itself completely and the fans would have understood. But now, we just truly don't know and each side chooses to believe something different...

Yeah, because I'm sure the front office wants to "vilify" any player :rolleyes:

And the difference between the sides is that one is paying attention to what the media is telling us, while the other is trying to bake a cake by pulling a couple crumbs together and filling the rest with guano.

[birdsncrabs]

What constitutes a "panic move?"

What if MacPhail signs Jon Garland to a 4 year, $40 million contract? Some fans might consider that a smart move, while others might call it a panic move. What about Adam Dunn for 5 years, $60 million? Smart or panic move?

We need players. I haven't seen anything so far that would make me think Andy MacPhail is willing to make a "panic move."
Or a 3 year $15 million dollar contract to Redding?

[bigbird]

How do you know?

That's ok... I just won't post anything else I hear. No biggie!

[joeyc]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

I got news for you, not only are the new customer ticket orders down, but the re-newals are down, and they're go down more.
The longer they wait to sign decent players or make a trade for good players, the more attendance is going to plummet, especially with the economy the way it is.
I still can't believe, that after seeing Camden Yards empty, by the end of the season last year, that they didn't make some sort of splash, this year and spend some of that MASN money.
I could of swore I heard AM say that the Orioles were going to be players in the market in the off season.
I haven't re-newed my plan yet. I'm still holding off to see what they do.
I want to make sure I take my time, like AM, before I make up my mind.

[Tx Oriole]

T81, the FO offered Tex 20 million a year. He turned it down. He did not want to play in Baltimore. IMO

[scOtt]

Bigbird's lowest moment....






someone had to say it... if it hasn't been said already in umpteen unread pages... in three(?) threads now? I hope Prez-Elect Obama has a plan to deal with this hostage situation.

[Dr. FLK]

Bigbird's lowest moment....






someone had to say it... if it hasn't been said already in umpteen unread pages... in three(?) threads now? I hope Prez-Elect Obama has a plan to deal with this hostage situation.

Just wait until you see FLK's lowest moment...it's gonna be awesome!;)

[Remember The Alomar]

That's ok... I just won't post anything else I hear. No biggie!

Why are you so bitter? Did McPhail shoot your dog?

[Lester Freamon]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

Man, I fear your source is over playing his hand. His deceit is out in the open.

[Fan4Life]

Hey Moose and everyone..you guys very well might be right.

But frankly IMO it's very annoying that we constantly hear after we miss out on guys that there's nothing more we could have done, that these guys never wanted to come here, yada yada yada. Then people move on to the Hendrickson signing and start defending that.

It is absolutely inexcusable not to put out the best offer we possibly could for Tex and give him a chance to accept it.

We should have brought him in, given him the royal treatment. Should have gotten Palmer, Brooks, Cal, BROB, Trembley, and Markakis to sell him on the O's. Should have been aggressive.

We sat on our asses the whole time waiting for Tex to call us back just to find out what "flexible" meant. Guess what, dream team or no dream team, we aren't in a position to do that to Mark Hendrickson much less Mark Teixeira.

Again, you might be right. But to blindly dismiss the small chance that Tex wanted to come here is being a bit naive and too supportive of the O's...giving them too much of the benefit of the doubt.

He said it was his dream to come here...He was obviously somewhat interested. It's naive IMO to think that he went through all this , making those comments, when deep inside he was just dying to be a NYY.


And what happens when he rejects all of that?

You think things would have been any BETTER?

I mean, you see what happened to Jtrea when we believed that Teixeira wasn't interested at all and gave up the chase. I'm afraid if all that went down he's REALLY have gone off the deep end. Like The Fan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fan_(1996_film)) or something.

I think the fact that (from what I understand) we were never given a chance to increase and/or top the best offer is proof he didn't want to play here. Looking at it from the outside, it appears to me, Tex told the Yankees he wanted to play for them from the very beginning, and all the rest was just about setting the price. That's why the Yankees didn't have to be involved in any negotiations, rather wait until the final tally arrived and have the Yankees do what they do. If Tex wanted to play in Baltimore, he would have taken that route with us, not the Yankees.

[Dr. FLK]

Why are you so bitter? Did McPhail shoot your dog?

Not yet...but I bet he's comin' for it...

[Dipper9]

I'm insinuating that his job is on the line because maybe he didn't do what Angelos wanted him to do and now the Orioles are losing attendance for 2009 left and right because of it...

If Angelos wanted Tex as bad as you have made yourself believe, then HE would have gotten him at all costs! Your line of reasoning is getting crazy!


As Ravenbird said, keep believing that if it helps you feel better about the Orioles complete lack of effort...


Offering ONE man 140 MILLION dollars in a down market to play baseball is NOT a lack of effort. And regardless of what you keep repeating over and over, if Tex had ANY desire what-so-ever to be in Baltimore, he would have taken the Yanks 8/180 deal back to the Orioles one last time. And please, stop giving me the lack of effort BS. That is your opinion, not a fact. Boras was on the Hot Stove Show last night on MLBN and said the Nats and Orioles were VERY ACTIVE in negotiations all the way through the process. You earlier said that once the 7/140 deal was on the table Tex eliminated us, and that is as far from the truth as can be. I truly love your devotion, but I cannot understand why you keep putting one player, Tex, ahead of your love for the Orioles? He is GONE. Get over it and move on with OUR team. Tex is the enemy now, regardless of what you perceive that reason to be.

[Hank Scorpio]

You don't know how much we would have had to pay Tex and neither do I, so you can't say he wouldn't sign here. The fact is we will never truly know because the Orioles never stepped up when it counted.

And when did I say I was fine becoming the Twins or Rays? I wanted this team completely blown up if they didn't sign Tex or Burnett as that was the only option at the time for realistically getting the most talent on this team. But the situation has changed, the market is depressed and the remaining FA bats and pitchers have come down drastically in price, a price the Orioles should be able to afford. Dunn won't cost picks. Sheets will only cost a 2nd round pick. Dunn and Sheets would improve this team a ton and now they are even more affordable, so now is the time to alter the plan again.

If not they need to be having a firesale as I originally suggested, and right now besides the rumors of Roberts, I don't see them acting quick enough like Beane did when he traded Haren and Swisher within in a month last season.

Treading water should not be an option when all the other teams around you that you are trying to pass are making moves and improving their teams for the future. Go all in or fold and cash in your chips. Either way would improve the Orioles for the future and that's all I want...

Santa Claus is REAL, dammit!!!!!!

I don't care what you guys say!!!!!!!

[TonySoprano]

And again, Tex waited out all the teams until the Yankees stepped up and made an offer.

If Tex was interested in coming here he might have given the O's a chance to up their offer.

But nope, the Yanks swooped in. Seriously, practically everyone on this board has come to the realization that Tex never really was interested in coming here, except for you.
Which proves that he wanted to go to New York instead of Baltimore.

It's very possible he didn't want the homecoming, I agree. If NY hadn't stepped up, all we have is the Orioles beat reporters' story, which is second hand information, that he didn't want to come here.

[jcroemer]

I've read through this thread now and I can see that a lot of people doubt what bigbird is relating. It seems there is some bias against MacPhail in these posts, and that's okay, but people should be aware that this is from a FO source that is clearly unhappy with his current employer.

This latest bit of information, and it's appreciated by all, seems extremely negative. To say that an organization such as the Orioles is in a panic state is pretty extreme, considering the professionalism and experience of those involved in the FO.

I think what's being called into question is the credibility of bigbird's source because of an overwhelming anti-MacPhail bias. It's interesting that this source leaked a time frame in which an event will occur. I suppose the source has now set up a "credibility test" which will determine how much attention we pay these sorts of rumors in the future.

[Singleton]

The Orioles would have made their best effort and correctly could villify Tex to their fanbase and the fans would be united in their hatred for Tex instead of split like they are now...

The FO could have vindicated itself completely and the fans would have understood. But now, we just truly don't know and each side chooses to believe something different...

C'mon. So, you mean to tell me that if AM came out and said:

"I've just offered Tex $140 million a year for 7 years -- 20 mil per to play baseball. We've determined this is the absolute most we can offer. I really hope he accepts."

And then Tex went and signed with the Yanks.....

You would have been ok with that? You and many others wouldn't be on this board complaining that the team doesn't care about winning, doesn't understand xyz, are idiots, too cheap, etc?

I have to call bull{ahem} on that one.

It has nothing to do with the definition of the word flexibility or if we sent him flowers and a phone call from Brooksie.

People wanted to see the hometown kid in an O's uniform and if the team failed they were (are) going to be angry about.

That's fine and understandable but lets be honest about it and not pretend it was about the process when it was ALL about the outcome.

[Hank Scorpio]

Can anyone picture Andy MacPhail in a state of panic, based on what we know about him and have seen of him?

[TonySoprano]

How do you know?Why don't you come out and call bigbird a liar then, because that's certainly your implication? I believe he reports what he hears. How connected his guy's information is an entirely different story. My observation is his source has a decent batting average in these things where no one bats 1.000.

[Hank Scorpio]

Why don't you come out and call bigbird a liar then, because that's certainly your implication? I believe he reports what he hears. How connected his guy's information is an entirely different story. My observation is his source has a decent batting average in these things where no one bats 1.000.

I also believe he reports what he hears, and I appreciate him doing that.

But I can't remember the last time any of our insiders correctly predicted something BEFORE it happened. Not before it was reported, before it happened.

[tywright]

I also believe he reports what he hears, and I appreciate him doing that.

But I can't remember the last time any of our insiders correctly predicted something BEFORE it happened. Not before it was reported, before it happened.

And also, it doesn't help the insider's credibility when the insider has an agenda

[jcroemer]

Can anyone picture Andy MacPhail in a state of panic, based on what we know about him and have seen of him?

I get a chuckle thinking about it... Lee Mazzilli and Andy MacPhail should sit down for a few rounds of poker, I would watch. No one would blink.

I don't really believe that the Front Office is a "cluster" right now. I don't think that's how MacPhail runs things. I think they may be a little frustrated because the offseason has not gone quite as planned. I am sure there is some pressure related to lack of ticket sales. But most of us saw this sort of thing coming. This is the "rock bottom" of a rebuilding effort. It's the stasis between drafting great prospect and realizing major league talent. This too will pass.

[Peace21]

Day 27- OH Bashes its Insiders...Armageddon is Here! :)

[Dipper9]

Why don't you come out and call bigbird a liar then, because that's certainly your implication? I believe he reports what he hears. How connected his guy's information is an entirely different story. My observation is his source has a decent batting average in these things where no one bats 1.000.

I do not want to turn this into an insider debate again. I take ALL of their info with a grain of salt, both positive news like Belky and negatove stuff like bb. The ONLY thing that agravates me is when they take this "well don't believe me then, I won't post anymore" stance. Note to "insiders"...we enjoy your news and enjoy your posts, but honestly, whether you give inside info or not is irrevalant. Just post your thoughts like the rest of us. Sometimes we say things that people don't like and they blast us, but we don't stop posting because of it. You guys need to understand that when you post something positive, you are going to get everyone's hopes up, and thus if it doesn't happen then people are gonna look for someone to take it out on. Many take it out on the insiders, others take it out directly on the Orioles. Just go with the flow. If you don't want to post inside stuff, then don't do it. But don't hold it over pur heads like its some kind of priveledged information, because like many have said, 90% of the time it does not come to pass.

[jcroemer]

I do not want to turn this into an insider debate again. I take ALL of their info with a grain of salt, both positive news like Belky and negatove stuff like bb. The ONLY thing that agravates me is when they take this "well don't believe me then, I won't post anymore" stance. Note to "insiders"...we enjoy your news and enjoy your posts, but honestly, whether you give inside info or not is irrevalant. Just post your thoughts like the rest of us. Sometimes we say things that people don't like and they blast us, but we don't stop posting because of it. You guys need to understand that when you post something positive, you are going to get everyone's hopes up, and thus if it doesn't happen then people are gonna look for someone to take it out on. Many take it out on the insiders, others take it out directly on the Orioles. Just go with the flow. If you don't want to post inside stuff, then don't do it. But don't hold it over pur heads like its some kind of priveledged information, because like many have said, 90% of the time it does not come to pass.


Alright folks, there is the best approach to take towards this insider stuff as well as the top reason why... It's not that serious!!! :wedge:

[Hank Scorpio]

And also, it doesn't help the insider's credibility when the insider has an agenda

I'm not gonna go there (again, I mean ;))... and I'm certainly not trying to disparage or discourage any of these guys from posting what they're hearing. I appreciate it, but I have learned over the course of the last few years to do as they ask and "take it with a grain of salt."

Stuff changes all the time in professional sports. Every single hour things change.

It's not easy to negotiate a free agent contract.

It's not easy to pull off a trade. We like to pretend that it is around here, but it's not.

[Fan4Life]

Who isn't frustrated but how things have gone with this organization? That isn't to say the current regime is as impotent as the past regimes, but we're all still waiting for something to cheer for. Probably going to have to wait a lot longer than we prefer... so... prepare for more of this over the coming 2-3 years.

it's those 1960's - early 1980's O's fault for setting the bar so high and not continuing to provide that quality of baseball for us. The game has changed... lets hope we aren't as irrelevant as everyone says we are.

[Hank Scorpio]

Day 27- OH Bashes its Insiders...Armageddon is Here! :)

Peace, when did you accurately report the Tejada deal?

I'm not bashing anyone, I'm just stating facts. You correctly reported it after it had been consumated... and we appreciate you for it.

But putting stock in something that someone's contact thinks is going to happen has proven to be risky at best. When someone comes on here and says, "Brian Roberts has been traded to the Texas Rangers for blah, blah, blah...." that's when I raise my eyebrows.

Grain of salt, folks. Insiders tell us that for a reason. Things change.

[Peace21]

Peace, when did you accurately report the Tejada deal?

I'm not bashing anyone, I'm just stating facts. You correctly reported it after it had been consumated... and we appreciate you for it.

But putting stock in something that someone's contact thinks is going to happen has proven to be risky at best. When someone comes on here and says, "Brian Roberts has been traded to the Texas Rangers for blah, blah, blah...." that's when I raise my eyebrows.

Grain of salt, folks. Insiders tell us that for a reason. Things change.

First im not an insider anymore. Second Hank im just messing around bud. Hence the smiley. You have valid points. Lets just see how this week goes.:D

[Hank Scorpio]

First im not and insider anymore. Second Hank im just messing around bud. Hence the smiley. You have valid points. Lets just see how this week goes.:D

Let's just see how the next 6 weeks go!!!!

There is much to be done.

[Peace21]

Let's just see how the next 6 weeks go!!!!

There is much to be done.

Yes sir!
With AM 6 weeks is like 6 years though.

[Hank Scorpio]

Yes sir!
With AM 6 weeks is like 6 years though.

It's gonna take a long time to overhaul 9.5 years of confusion and dysfunctionality, no doubt.

It's just refreshing to me to see someone doing it the right way. Believe it or not, this is the right way.

[JTrea81]

How about this tidbit (http://masnsports.com/2009/01/tough-call-for-billick.html) from Roch:


Moyer figured to re-sign with the Phillies, so it was no surprise that it happened, but I'm told he also liked the idea of coming back to Baltimore.

Maybe if the Orioles had stepped up and made an effort to sign Moyer (who didn't cost a draft pick) we'd have him in the fold right now. Negotiations with the Phillies broke down and yet the Orioles never made an attempt. And I don't care how old he is, he can still pitch...

He was cheap and good and the Orioles passed on him when they are desperate for arms. Go figure...

[Fan4Life]

How about this tidbit (http://masnsports.com/2009/01/tough-call-for-billick.html) from Roch:



Maybe if the Orioles had stepped up and made an effort to sign Moyer (who didn't cost a draft pick) we'd have him in the fold right now. Negotiations with the Phillies broke down and yet the Orioles never made an attempt. And I don't care how old he is, he can still pitch...

He was cheap and good and the Orioles passed on him when they are desperate for arms. Go figure...

I wouldn't have paid him $8mil for 2 years. Too many better options both in talent and $$$.

[neveradoubt]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

Scott Borus made it very clear last evening on MLBN. Teams had counter offers to the Yankees bid but Tex decided he wanted to play for a winning franchise. Those other teams were not even given a chance at a counter proposal.Either the Orioles build thru the draft and trade Roberts or be a non factor forever. They are not signing quality FRA.

[Dipper9]

How about this tidbit (http://masnsports.com/2009/01/tough-call-for-billick.html) from Roch:



Maybe if the Orioles had stepped up and made an effort to sign Moyer (who didn't cost a draft pick) we'd have him in the fold right now. Negotiations with the Phillies broke down and yet the Orioles never made an attempt. And I don't care how old he is, he can still pitch...

He was cheap and good and the Orioles passed on him when they are desperate for arms. Go figure...

JTrea, you are apparantly looking for reasons to be pissed at the Orioles right now. I cannot wait to see your reaction when we resign Millar! That will be must see TV...er...internet! :laughlol:

[bigbird]

I wouldn't have paid him $8mil for 2 years. Too many better options both in talent and $$$.

Me either.... as long as we sign some of those better options. Hendrickson is not one.

[rochester]

And the thing is the Yankees gave him more than he is worth.
The guy is not one of the top five players in baseball.
They way overpaid
Heck at 140 million the Orioles were overpaying.
I wanted him as well but at what price.
What would it have taken.

That's because the MFY's have to overpay to get anyone to come to New York.:wedge:

[TonySoprano]

I think that whole time, Tex was being diplomatic. I think it was cliche riddled athlete-speak. Lets not forget he was being coached by Boras.

We aren't the most desirable place to play and thats what the Orioles get for trying to land a big time FA after mismanaging themselves for a decade. He wasn't interested.
Let's throw another log on the fire, to stoke it and get it really going

Teixeira doesn't downplay his excitement about the idea of playing for the Orioles. "That would really be a dream come true," he said. Of course, Teixeira is nothing if not polite. He finished that thought by saying, "But at the same time, I have two years here with Texas and I'm going to concentrate on winning with Texas." Source - Sports Illustrated, Mar. 2007 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/03/15/scoop.friday/index.html)

Nah, it wouldn't be in the Orioles best interest to leak a story to the press that Tex wasn't interested in coming here, now would it?;)

[SilentJames]

That's ok... I just won't post anything else I hear. No biggie!

Bigbird, please cut out the "I'm going to take ball and leave" mentality.

We appreciate your information, but you can't be afraid of criticism from time to time.

[SilentJames]

How about this tidbit (http://masnsports.com/2009/01/tough-call-for-billick.html) from Roch:



Maybe if the Orioles had stepped up and made an effort to sign Moyer (who didn't cost a draft pick) we'd have him in the fold right now. Negotiations with the Phillies broke down and yet the Orioles never made an attempt. And I don't care how old he is, he can still pitch...

He was cheap and good and the Orioles passed on him when they are desperate for arms. Go figure...

OH PLEASE! You have to be kidding me. Jamie Moyer? We have no need for Jamie Moyer.

[JTrea81]

OH PLEASE! You have to be kidding me. Jamie Moyer? We have no need for Jamie Moyer.

I'll remember that when you see Hendrickson getting lit up in the rotation start after start... :laughlol:

Moyer will earn every penny of that 8 million per season.

[Fan4Life]

Me either.... as long as we sign some of those better options. Hendrickson is not one.

Agreed. I would prefer to stick our AA guys out there from day one than to pay for crap and get what we pay for.

[tywright]

I'll remember that when you see Hendrickson getting lit up in the rotation start after start... :laughlol:

Moyer will earn every penny of that 8 million per season.

Moyer in the AL East spells disaster. At least Hendrickson can provide with you some upside in the bullpen. With Moyer you know what you're going to get and it's not worth $13MM over 2 years with $7MM in incentives.

[Trinidad]

Moyer in the AL East spells disaster. At least Hendrickson can provide with you some upside in the bullpen. With Moyer you know what you're going to get and it's not worth $13MM over 2 years with $7MM in incentives.

Um....How do you figure?

[SilentJames]

Um....How do you figure?

You want to pay Moyer 8 million a year to be in the pen? Hendrickson can do that for 1/8th cost and half the contract length.

People are making way too much out of that deal. He is filler, nothing more nothing less.

[Fan4Life]

Um....How do you figure?

He appears to know where the plate is. That is quite valuable in Baltimore. Other than that, probably not much.

[JTrea81]

Moyer in the AL East spells disaster. At least Hendrickson can provide with you some upside in the bullpen. With Moyer you know what you're going to get and it's not worth $13MM over 2 years with $7MM in incentives.

Moyer was pretty darn good last season, better than any Oriole pitcher and he was 45 and showing no signs of slowing down. He's pitched 195 innings at least every season since 2001. CBP is a launching pad much like OPACY and yet he did pretty well there.

Just what about Moyer turns you off other than the fact he'll be 46?

[SweetbabyJ]

That's ok... I just won't post anything else I hear. No biggie!

Over the years, how many times have we heard this rerun?
Not everyone is going to agree with you even if "they take it with a grain of salt." I think alot of your stuff is fictional, but I enjoy reading it and the reaction you get. You keep this board jumping.