I Hate Everything About the Stealers But [Archive]

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Old#5fan

01-13-2009, 08:53 AM

Avsfan

01-13-2009, 11:59 AM

NewMarketSean

01-13-2009, 12:23 PM

Polamalu....only player I don't mind...and that's just cause I'd love to see him wearing our jersey every week.

Ben isn't that good skill wise...he's gotten some breaks and such...but I don't put him in Peyton or Brady's company

I wouldn't either, but his OL and lack of running game for the most part has gotten him killed this year. When he had all systems running last year he had an awesome year. His only setback is holding onto the ball too much -- a problem that is magnified when you have a weak OL.

Steel Curtain

01-13-2009, 01:49 PM

admit that Big Ben is a class act and a darn good QB. Other than Manning or Brady, he is the last guy I want to see with a minute left and the chance to drive the ball for a winning score. He performs his best when under pressure. This is the one area where I home Flacco continues to grow and improve.

With this being said, he does get a bit too risque early in games and can be vulnerable to a pick or sack and fumble. I hope this shows up in the upcoming game for the Ravens sake.

One player I'd hope most fans could be pulling for is Aaron Smith. His son was diagnosed with leukemia the week leading up to the Ravens/Steelers game in December. Thankfully it has an 80% survival rate, but it's still a sad story.

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08349/935071-87.stm

oriole_way

01-13-2009, 08:02 PM

Polamalu....only player I don't mind...and that's just cause I'd love to see him wearing our jersey every week.

Ben isn't that good skill wise...he's gotten some breaks and such...but I don't put him in Peyton or Brady's company

For all the numbers that Peyton has put up over the years, he's been fairly mediocre in the playoffs. His career record in the playoffs is 7-8. And he's been on some very good playoff teams over the years.

Yet fans, media etc., think that Peyton is so great.

Look what he did against the Chargers this year. He put up 17 points, and 7 of those was when he caught SD in between substitutions and confused. So in essence, he put up 10 points when SD's defense was set. And if this was just this year, fine. But he's put up many mediocre offensive performances in the playoffs over the years.

And then compare that to what Ben did to the Chargers the following week.

On the other hand, Brady has a sterling 14-3 playoff record. Roethlisberger is now 6-2.

(I realize that it's not easy to win in the playoffs. But if you're annually considered one of the best two qb in the league and possibly one of the best qb of all time, you better at least be above .500 in the playoffs.)

xKHx

01-13-2009, 09:32 PM

For all the numbers that Peyton has put up over the years, he's been fairly mediocre in the playoffs. His career record in the playoffs is 7-8. And he's been on some very good playoff teams over the years.

Yet fans, media etc., think that Peyton is so great.

Look what he did against the Chargers this year. He put up 17 points, and 7 of those was when he caught SD in between substitutions and confused. So in essence, he put up 10 points when SD's defense was set. And if this was just this year, fine. But he's put up many mediocre offensive performances in the playoffs over the years.

And then compare that to what Ben did to the Chargers the following week.

On the other hand, Brady has a sterling 14-3 playoff record. Roethlisberger is now 6-2.

(I realize that it's not easy to win in the playoffs. But if you're annually considered one of the best two qb in the league and possibly one of the best qb of all time, you better at least be above .500 in the playoffs.)

That is unfair look at Brady and Ben's defense. The answer lies in there.

2632

01-13-2009, 11:12 PM

admit that Big Ben is a class act and a darn good QB. Other than Manning or Brady, he is the last guy I want to see with a minute left and the chance to drive the ball for a winning score. He performs his best when under pressure. This is the one area where I hope Flacco continues to grow and improve.

With this being said, he does get a bit too risque early in games and can be vulnerable to a pick or sack and fumble. I hope this shows up in the upcoming game for the Ravens sake.

I too have a bitter and intense dislike of the Steelers, but I honestly worry about Roethlisberger's health sometimes. I think sometimes the risks he puts himself through and sometimes what his franchise allows him to do just seems irresponsible. And I'm not just talking about riding a motorcycle without a helmet. I'm happy to see him play badly, especially this Sunday, but I have no desire to see him in a wheelchair in five years.

oriole_way

01-14-2009, 01:04 AM

That is unfair look at Brady and Ben's defense. The answer lies in there.

There's been plenty of times when Manning and the Colts entered the playoffs as a #1 or #2 seed and lost. Look at the weapons he's had on offense. He's played with Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark...

And while he has played on teams that did not always feature good defenses, the Colts defenses have been much better since Dungy got there. For example, the Colts have been a top 10 scoring defense 4 times during Dungy's tenure (7 years).

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/

And the Colts defense wouldn't explain why his offenses often underperform in the playoffs anyway.

1999
Colts score 16 in a loss to Titans (19-16). They had been 3rd in the league in scoring that year, avg 26.4 per game. They were 13-3 that year and lost to Tenn at home, in their 1rst playoff game after a bye week.

2000
Colts score 17 in a loss to Miami (23-17). They had been 4th in the league in scoring that year, avg 26.8 per game. They lost in the opening wildcard round.

2002
Colts are shutout in a loss to Jets (41-0). They had been 17th in the league in scoring that year, avg 21.8 per game. They lost in the opening wildcard round.

2003
Colts score 14 in a loss to NE (24-14). They had been 2nd in the league in scoring that year, avg 27.9 per game.

2004
Colts score 3 in a loss to NE (20-3). They were 1rst in the league in scoring that year, avg 32.6 per game.

2005
Colts score 18 in a loss to Pitt (21-18). They were 2nd in the league in scoring that year, avg 27.4 per game. This was the year when they started 13-0 and ended up 14-2. They lost in their opening playoff game at home after a bye week. Manning's offense was held in check all day and he was sacked several times at the end of the game. Only the referee's incorrect reversal of Polamalu's interception and Bettis' fumble allowed the Colts to even score 18.

2006
Colts score 15 in a win vs Balt (15-6). They were 2nd in the league in scoring that year, avg 26.7 per game. The Ravens lost this game not because of Manning. They lost because Mcnair and the offense couldn't move the ball against the Colts defense. At the end of the game, the Colts ran the clock out behind Rhodes and Addai.

2007
Colts score 24 in a loss to SD (28-24). They were in 3rd the league in scoring that year, avg 28.1 per game. Manning had a chance to win the game at the end but he couldn't score the needed td on the Colts final drive at home.

2008
Colts score 17 in a loss to SD (23-17). They were 13th in the league in scoring this year, avg 23.6 per game. Manning had a chance to ice the game at the end if he converted a 3rd and 2. Instead he took a sack. That forced a punt after which Rivers and the Chargers were able to kick a game tying fg and send the game into OT.

I've got nothing against Manning. He seems like a nice enough guy and people generally say that nobody watches more film.

But his high powered offenses come up short way too often in the postseason. And the sample size is now large enough where you can't simply write it off to a bad day or a bad matchup.

In 15 playoff games, the Manning led Colts offense has scored under 20 points 8 times.

Like I said, 7-8 in the postseason. If you are a great qb, you've got to do better than that in the postseason.

I'm not going to go in depth with regards to Brady, but his teams almost always score at least 20 in the playoffs. In fact, since he became a starter, his teams have scored: 16, 24, 20, 17, 24, 32, 20, 41, 24, 28, 13, 37, 24, 24, 31, 21 and 14 points. Only 4 times out of 14, has a Brady led offense scored less than 20 in a playoff game. Two of his three losses came when they scored less than 20. They scored only 13 in a loss to Denver in the 2005 playoffs and they scored only 14 in a loss to the Giants last year.

In 8 playoff games, a Roethlisberger led offense has never scored less than 20 points.

(Look at the bolded sentences. In the playoffs, Manning's offenses consistently score less than 20 when compared to Brady and Roethlisberger.)

xKHx

01-14-2009, 09:13 AM

oriole_way

01-14-2009, 05:46 PM

How many takeaways did the defenses give Brady/Ben. How much more three and outs. What about starting field position? How many times was it a defensive score? During a full season you don't face top 5 defenses consistently. Also look at the running backs. You have to run as well in the playoffs and colts have had a second tier guy ever since they got rid of edge. Great playoff qb's all have good running backs and a good defense. If you have Manning with our defense or any top 5 defense watch out I think we would be talking about the greatest to ever play the game type of qb. Not once, did their defense even break into the top 10 during Peyton's tenure. Actually in 2004 their defense was ranked 29! Others ranked in the low 20's to high teens to low teens more recently.

Excuses. You must be a Colts fan. And you're simply factually incorrect.

How many takeaways did the defenses give Brady/Ben.

Actually, during Dungy's tenure, the Colts defense has usually been in the top half of the league in takeaways and sometimes near the top of the league:

year # ranking

2008 26 13th
2007 37 2nd http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2007.htm
2006 26 21st
2005 31 7th http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2005.htm
2004 36 3rd http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2004.htm
2003 30 12th
2002 27 18th

3 top ten finishes in this category in the past 7 years and 5 times in the top 13.

Also look at the running backs. You have to run as well in the playoffs and colts have had a second tier guy ever since they got rid of edge.

What about when they did have Edge. Manning had him for 7 years. You can't just discount that. Manning also played with Marshall Faulk for 1 year. And then the Addai/Rhodes combo wasn't bad. Who has Brady had at rb? He had an older Corey Dillon for a couple of years. It's not even comparable. Roethlisberger had an older Bettis and a good but overrated Parker. Not bad, but not in the class of 7 years of James and 1 year of Faulk. I would take Manning's running backs over who Brady and Roethlisberger have had.

Not once, did their defense even break into the top 10 during Peyton's tenure.

Yes they did, several times. Again, you are simply factually incorrect.

They were #7 in points allowed this year.
They were #1 in points allowed in 2007.
They were #2 in points allowed in 2005.
They were #7 in points allowed in 2002.

(http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/)

I'm not saying that Manning is playing with the 85 Bears defense every year. But he's played with some good defenses, especially during Dungy's 7 year tenure.

You mention 1 year when they were 29th in yards allowed but still were 19th in points allowed and 3rd in takeaways.

That's like if I said that the Patriots were 26th in yards allowed in 2005 (true fact) so therefore Brady never had a good defense. We all know that would be a ridiculous leap of a conclusion.

I'm done discussing this with you. I've put up plenty of numbers and facts for everyone to see and I've used these facts to disprove many of the assertions you've made. And some of your statements are simply false.

xKHx

01-14-2009, 07:17 PM

Excuses. You must be a Colts fan. And you're simply factually incorrect.

Actually, during Dungy's tenure, the Colts defense has usually been in the top half of the league in takeaways and sometimes near the top of the league:

year # ranking

2008 26 13th
2007 37 2nd http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2007.htm
2006 26 21st
2005 31 7th http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2005.htm
2004 36 3rd http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2004.htm
2003 30 12th
2002 27 18th

3 top ten finishes in this category in the past 7 years and 5 times in the top 13.

What about when they did have Edge. Manning had him for 7 years. You can't just discount that. Manning also played with Marshall Faulk for 1 year. And then the Addai/Rhodes combo wasn't bad. Who has Brady had at rb? He had an older Corey Dillon for a couple of years. It's not even comparable. Roethlisberger had an older Bettis and a good but overrated Parker. Not bad, but not in the class of 7 years of James and 1 year of Faulk. I would take Manning's running backs over who Brady and Roethlisberger have had.

Yes they did, several times. Again, you are simply factually incorrect.

They were #7 in points allowed this year.
They were #1 in points allowed in 2007.
They were #2 in points allowed in 2005.
They were #7 in points allowed in 2002.

(http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/)

I'm not saying that Manning is playing with the 85 Bears defense every year. But he's played with some good defenses, especially during Dungy's 7 year tenure.

You mention 1 year when they were 29th in yards allowed but still were 19th in points allowed and 3rd in takeaways.

That's like if I said that the Patriots were 26th in yards allowed in 2005 (true fact) so therefore Brady never had a good defense. We all know that would be a ridiculous leap of a conclusion.

I'm done discussing this with you. I've put up plenty of numbers and facts for everyone to see and I've used these facts to disprove many of the assertions you've made. And some of your statements are simply false.

Simply false? You need to look on defense on nfl.com that is where I am getting my info from.

This year they were ranked 11th. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&season=2008&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go
2007 they were ranked third.
2006 they were ranked 21st http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&season=2006&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go
2005 they were ranked 11th http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&season=2005&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go
2004 they were ranked 29th http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&season=2004&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

So you can call names act all high and mighty but those are the facts from nfl.com on overall defenses throughout the whole season.

Have a nice day.