View Full Version : Is Tillman at risk for injury?
Enjoy Terror
01-20-2009, 05:33 PM
http://projectprospect.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4033
During the AA playoffs before they were eliminated, Chris Tillman took a ball off the right arm hit by Matt LaPorta. Very little was reported on it, which would give me the impression it wasn't much. Because of the injury, several guys over at Project Prospect erroneously thought it was a mechanics injury and studied tapes of Tillman's delivery. They noticed that Chris Tillman's delivery is similar to Chris Carpenter's delivery, which could lead to injury problems down the road, as they did for Carpenter.
Is this true what they are saying and has it been addressed by the Orioles?
Moose Milligan
01-20-2009, 06:14 PM
Thats an interesting analysis, comparing the deliveries.
But he's a pitcher and all pitchers are going to have an injury sooner or later. The human arm isn't built for what a ML pitcher puts it through, unless you're a genetic freak like Nolan Ryan.
IMO, the real question is will he have arm problems over and over again? Or will he have his eventual Tommy John and be done with it?
That isn't really an inverted L. A slight elbow bend in his motion, but nothing that should be throwing up serious red flags a la Aaron Crow. The concern is his arm lagging behind the rest of his body. That probably won't lead to elbow trouble, but it could be a potential shoulder/labrum issue down the road. Still, he's not Crow bad, not even Carpenter bad.
weams
01-20-2009, 08:54 PM
http://projectprospect.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4033
During the AA playoffs before they were eliminated, Chris Tillman took a ball off the right arm hit by Matt LaPorta. Very little was reported on it, which would give me the impression it wasn't much. Because of the injury, several guys over at Project Prospect erroneously thought it was a mechanics injury and studied tapes of Tillman's delivery. They noticed that Chris Tillman's delivery is similar to Chris Carpenter's delivery, which could lead to injury problems down the road, as they did for Carpenter.
Is this true what they are saying and has it been addressed by the Orioles?
Is he a pitcher?
Osfan13
01-20-2009, 09:07 PM
Thats an interesting analysis, comparing the deliveries.
But he's a pitcher and all pitchers are going to have an injury sooner or later. The human arm isn't built for what a ML pitcher puts it through, unless you're a genetic freak like Nolan Ryan.
IMO, the real question is will he have arm problems over and over again? Or will he have his eventual Tommy John and be done with it?
Maybe Tillman should work at a Ranch in the offseason, like Nolan Ryan. Problem Solved!
JTrea81
01-20-2009, 10:47 PM
All the more reason to deal him for a good young IFer.
Tillman's stock is uber high right now so he could be the main piece in any trade.
Hank Scorpio
01-20-2009, 10:54 PM
All the more reason to deal him for a good young IFer.
Tillman's stock is uber high right now so he could be the main piece in any trade.
All the more reason to stockpile as many pitchers as possible.
McNulty
01-20-2009, 11:02 PM
All the more reason to stockpile as many pitchers as possible.
Are you crazy? We clearly have enough pitching already. Why we would cut a AAAA 30 year old and hang onto all these pitchers is beyond ridiculous. :D
Hank Scorpio
01-20-2009, 11:04 PM
Are you crazy? We clearly have enough pitching already. Why we would cut a AAAA 30 year old and hang onto all these pitchers is beyond ridiculous. :D
Easy there, Sly!!!!!!!!
It's not only beyond ridiculous, it's LAZY!!!!!
;)
JTrea81
01-20-2009, 11:07 PM
All the more reason to stockpile as many pitchers as possible.
If you know he's an injury risk, why hang onto him when he can get you a young IFer that isn't as much of an injury risk and fills a greater need?
The Orioles need to be identifying which pitchers they think will succeed and stay healthy and keep those and ship the others out before they get hurt or suffer a performance decline and their trade value drops.
Daniel Cabrera and Hayden Penn are two good examples of pitchers the Orioles should have dealt while their stock was high. Beane knew when to deal Mulder. The Orioles need to learn when to fish or cut bait with their pitchers.
Hank Scorpio
01-20-2009, 11:09 PM
If you know he's an injury risk, why hang onto him when he can get you a young IFer that isn't as much as an injury risk and fills a greater need?
I will not engage, Viper...
glenn__davis
01-20-2009, 11:09 PM
I will not engage, Viper...
****it! Scorpio's disengaging!
Hank Scorpio
01-20-2009, 11:11 PM
****it! Scorpio's disengaging!
Regret to inform you, your sons are dead because they were stupid.
McNulty
01-20-2009, 11:11 PM
I will not engage, Viper...
****it! Scorpio's disengaging!
...Ready Stoner and SG on CATs 3 and 4...
Leitch
01-20-2009, 11:12 PM
never he is indestructible~!!! :(:(:(
Moose Milligan
01-20-2009, 11:13 PM
Tower, this is Ghost rider requesting a flyby.
All the more reason to deal him for a good young IFer.
Tillman's stock is uber high right now so he could be the main piece in any trade.
Do you actually want to discuss whether there is any potential injury risk with Tillman, or just sit around rosterbating and criticizing the Orioles' FO for not making every single move you think they should exactly when you think they should?
glenn__davis
01-20-2009, 11:17 PM
...Ready Stoner and SG on CATs 3 and 4...
McNulty, it's nothing personal, but with regards to SG...
Hank Scorpio
01-20-2009, 11:18 PM
This thing'll be over in 2 minutes.
McNulty
01-20-2009, 11:18 PM
McNulty, it's nothing personal, but with regards to SG...
I know its on your mind glenn_davis, just get on it!
Moose Milligan
01-20-2009, 11:23 PM
Do you actually want to discuss whether there is any potential injury risk with Tillman, or just sit around rosterbating and criticizing the Orioles' FO for not making every single move you think they should exactly when you think they should?
Up there, we gotta push it.
JTrea81
01-20-2009, 11:27 PM
Do you actually want to discuss whether there is any potential injury risk with Tillman, or just sit around rosterbating and criticizing the Orioles' FO for not making every single move you think they should exactly when you think they should?
I'm just saying if there is an injury risk with Tillman, the Orioles need to identify it and decide whether he's worth the risk to keep or would be better suited as the main trade chip to bring a young talented IFer back.
I'd rather deal Tillman that just acquire more arms to cushion the blow of an potential injury.
Moose Milligan
01-20-2009, 11:29 PM
I'm just saying if there is an injury risk with Tillman, the Orioles need to identify it and decide whether he's worth the risk to keep or would be better suited as the main trade chip to bring a young talented IFer back.
I'd rather deal Tillman that just acquire more arms to cushion the blow of an potential injury.
The simple fact is that you feel responsible for the Teixeira signing and you have a confidence problem.
Hank Scorpio
01-20-2009, 11:32 PM
I'm just saying if there is an injury risk with Tillman, the Orioles need to identify it and decide whether he's worth the risk to keep or would be better suited as the main trade chip to bring a young talented IFer back.
I'd rather deal Tillman that just acquire more arms to cushion the blow of an potential injury.
We need 3 more Tillmans before we deal one of them.
No, we need 4 more Tillmans, maybe even 5.
McNulty
01-20-2009, 11:32 PM
The simple fact is that you feel responsible for the Teixeira signing and you have a confidence problem.
So MacPhail's dad did do it right then?
Moose Milligan
01-20-2009, 11:34 PM
So MacPhail's dad did do it right then?
McNulty, who's butt did you kiss to get in here anyway?
McNulty
01-20-2009, 11:35 PM
McNulty, who's butt did you kiss to get in here anyway?
.....the Penny Benjamin incident?
Moose Milligan
01-20-2009, 11:36 PM
.....the Penny Benjamin incident?
Hell, I'd be happy to just find a girl that would talk dirty to me.
Big Mac
01-20-2009, 11:37 PM
I'm just saying if there is an injury risk with Tillman, the Orioles need to identify it and decide whether he's worth the risk to keep or would be better suited as the main trade chip to bring a young talented IFer back.
I'd rather deal Tillman that just acquire more arms to cushion the blow of an potential injury.
There's an injury risk with all pitchers.
McNulty
01-20-2009, 11:38 PM
Hell, I'd be happy to just find a girl that would talk dirty to me.
...with a LADY this time.
Moose Milligan
01-20-2009, 11:39 PM
...with a LADY this time.
You're gonna do WHAT?
McNulty
01-20-2009, 11:52 PM
You're gonna do WHAT?
Moose.....(sniff, sniff)....you stink.
Moose Milligan
01-20-2009, 11:56 PM
Moose.....(sniff, sniff)....you stink.
It's classified. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you
RShack
01-21-2009, 01:41 AM
The Orioles need to be identifying which pitchers they think will succeed and stay healthy and keep those and ship the others out before they get hurt or suffer a performance decline and their trade value drops.
I completely agree.
While they're at it, they should identify which hitters will be a success, and ship out the rest of them too.
Then, they'd know who would turn out and who wouldn't.
Once they did that, they wouldn't have to be driving a bunch of neer-do-wells around on all those busses.
I think they should get right on it.
Hank Scorpio
01-21-2009, 09:27 AM
It's classified. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you
That's pretty arrogant, considering the company you're in.
RedDevil00
01-21-2009, 09:34 AM
That's pretty arrogant, considering the company you're in.
I like that in a baseball fan. :)
Enjoy Terror
01-21-2009, 10:10 AM
There's an injury risk with all pitchers.
Not all pitchers have risky mechanics.
There's a difference between knowing if you walk outside your house that there's a chance you might get hit by a meteor (everyone runs that risk), and then there's knowing that if you live in an asteroid belt that you might get hit by an asteroid.
Moose Milligan
01-21-2009, 10:38 AM
Not all pitchers have risky mechanics.
There's a difference between knowing if you walk outside your house that there's a chance you might get hit by a meteor (everyone runs that risk), and then there's knowing that if you live in an asteroid belt that you might get hit by an asteroid.
It's not totally about risky mechanics. Its that scientifically, a humans arm is not meant to throw a baseball overhand at the high velocity major league pitchers do.
It's why those softball chicks can go out and throw a ton of pitches with very little rest. If major league pitchers delivered the ball underhand in that manner, there'd be a huge drop off in arm injuries.
Risky mechanics are a part of it, but not all of it. Again, the human body isn't built for throwing a baseball at 90+ 100 times every 5th day.
Enjoy Terror
01-21-2009, 10:42 AM
In the scope of this thread... we are arguing that Tillman's delivery is more susceptible to injury than other pitchers. That isn't to say that all pitchers aren't begging for an injury by doing an unnatural motion over and over again. That's the difference. I thought my asteroid analogy was reasonable.
Moose Milligan
01-21-2009, 11:05 AM
In the scope of this thread... we are arguing that Tillman's delivery is more susceptible to injury than other pitchers. That isn't to say that all pitchers aren't begging for an injury by doing an unnatural motion over and over again. That's the difference. I thought my asteroid analogy was reasonable.
Yeah, but at what point is the delivery the reason for the injury? Could you find someone with similar mechanics to Carpenter's who has never had an arm issue?
PeteCanes
01-21-2009, 01:11 PM
Scorpio, you and McNulty were probably listening to Loggins' "Playing with the boys" throughout this entire thread weren't you. Losers. You too Moose.
Oriolidae85
01-21-2009, 02:18 PM
Even if Chris does have injury-prone mechanics, you still take from the Till(man) at the big-league level for at least a couple of years. He's young enough that an injury might not happen right away...the higher up he moves, the higher his trade value.
His value will be even greater with a successful MLB season under his belt. Not sure how you can criticize the FO for not trading him now.
monstermjp
01-21-2009, 03:31 PM
Tower, this is Ghost rider requesting a flyby.
Negative Ghostrider, that pattern is full!!!
Hank Scorpio
01-21-2009, 03:41 PM
Bottom line : most organizations haven't discovered a consistent way for pitchers to avoid injuries because such a thing hasn't been discovered yet.
Everyone is an injury risk, which is why you stockpile the pitching.
Tony-OH
01-21-2009, 04:39 PM
Guys, let's stick to the topic at hand please, thanks.
BTW, I don't think Tillman has any more chance of an arm injury than any other young pitcher. He repeats his mechanics well and doesn't overthrow.