Wiggy on hold, Are we in on Manny [Archive]

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oriolefaithful

02-09-2009, 05:20 PM

If Wiggy is not signed would we be interested in Manny? Manny would be the bat we need to have some protection for our younger hitters. Would we be willing to take that chance?

Sanfran327

02-09-2009, 05:21 PM

This is going to get ugly. But I really want ManRam.

gold21030

02-09-2009, 05:21 PM

No...No...No...No...NO! Manny Rameriez would kill any clubhouse improvement we try to make we ditched Tejada and Hernandez do we need another who is worse than both of them combined?

PaulBako

02-09-2009, 05:22 PM

I would love to get Manny.

tywright

02-09-2009, 05:22 PM

We DON'T NEED MANNY

DrungoHazewood

02-09-2009, 05:23 PM

No, but I think that if something happens to Donnie Murphy in spring training we may be interested in acquiring Chase Utley.

LookinUp

02-09-2009, 05:24 PM

Why does anyone think Wiggy's on hold? Didn't Roch say he was going to complete his physical later this week and get announced at that time?

How does that lead anyone to think that we're in on Manny?

Big Mac

02-09-2009, 05:24 PM

If Wiggy is not signed would we be interested in Manny? Manny would be the bat we need to have some protection for our younger hitters. Would we be willing to take that chance?

I don't want Manny anywhere near any of our young hitters.

The last thing we need is Nick Markakis or Adam Jones turning into a primadonna.

Goop

02-09-2009, 05:25 PM

Ok, I've been off the board for a few days. What did I miss? I thought Wiggington was a done deal?

Goop

02-09-2009, 05:25 PM

I don't want Manny anywhere near any of our young hitters.

The last thing we need is Nick Markakis or Adam Jones turning into a primadonna.

Agreed 100%.

NewMarketSean

02-09-2009, 05:26 PM

Can Manny play multiple positions with an average glove? And on top of that, take a deal similar to Wiggington?

Nigel Tufnel

02-09-2009, 05:26 PM

I think Manny really needs to be on a contender. When you're winning, Manny can be Manny, and it's funny. But on a losing team, no one would be laughing.

Also, he's reportedly already turned down 1/25 and 2/45 from the Dodgers. The O's have no business offering him that kind of money.

PrivateO

02-09-2009, 05:26 PM

Ok, I've been off the board for a few days. What did I miss? I thought Wiggington was a done deal?

He's partially done his physical. Some done last Thursday, and he's finishing up this week.

Roch said it would be done by the end of this week. (with of course a player beign waived to make room on the 40 man roster for Wigginton)

Tony-OH

02-09-2009, 05:27 PM

This is really not worthy of discussion. There is as much chance of Manny becoming an Oriole as there is Barry Bonds.

waroriole

02-09-2009, 05:29 PM

No, but I think that if something happens to Donnie Murphy in spring training we may be interested in acquiring Chase Utley.

This is comedy gold.

FutureGM

02-09-2009, 05:30 PM

I actually think there's a better chance of Roger Maris patrolling left field and Dhing for the 2009 Orioles than Manny.

PaulBako

02-09-2009, 05:30 PM

It's Manny being Manny. :cool:

clapdiddy

02-09-2009, 05:31 PM

No, but I think that if something happens to Donnie Murphy in spring training we may be interested in acquiring Chase Utley.

You ninny! We can't get Chase Utley...he's hurt to begin the season, and he'd NEVER pass the Angelos All-Invasive Physical! ;)

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 05:31 PM

I don't want Manny anywhere near any of our young hitters.

The last thing we need is Nick Markakis or Adam Jones turning into a primadonna.

Like he did to Ortiz and Pedroia and Youkillis? :rolleyes:

I will believe until proven otherwise that most of "Manny being Manny" was an invention by the same Boston media everyone seems to hate and question on any other topic, and that he is just an eccentric guy who happens to be one of the best pure hitters of this generation.

No one would care about anything he did if he was a .750 OPS guy ("When you win 20 in The Show you can let the fungus grow all over your shower shoes and the press will think you're colorful. Until then it just means you're a slob!")

I'd take him to play DH, assuming he would do that. And anyone who wouldn't I would seriously question their priorities (especially using some vague "clubhouse" reason).

Goop

02-09-2009, 05:31 PM

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 05:32 PM

This is really not worthy of discussion. There is as much chance of Manny becoming an Oriole as there is Barry Bonds.

...which really should piss people off more.

El Gordo

02-09-2009, 05:33 PM

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 05:33 PM

He's partially done his physical. Some done last Thursday, and he's finishing up this week.

Roch said it would be done by the end of this week. (with of course a player beign waived to make room on the 40 man roster for Wigginton)

Roch seems to think it will get done, though Schmuck sounds a little more wary.

Won't matter though. Ty Wigginton isn't what is keeping us from signing Manny Ramirez.

adamwolff11

02-09-2009, 05:34 PM

Manny is an amazing hitter, no doubt about it, but he's not a fit for this team at all. We would still be losing, and eventually he would have no interest in playing and it would be very wasted money. He needs a contender and he needs to be in a perfect situation so that he can be productive.

LookinUp

02-09-2009, 05:34 PM

How does anything lead to us to think we are getting Manny?

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds could make it happen. Otherwise, I'm not sure what could make us get that creative. :laughlol:

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 05:35 PM

No, but I think that if something happens to Donnie Murphy in spring training we may be interested in acquiring Chase Utley.

Come on man, let's be serious.

You know we wouldn't settle for anything less than Hanley Ramirez! :laughlol:

ScottieBaseball

02-09-2009, 05:35 PM

I don't want Manny anywhere near any of our young hitters.

The last thing we need is Nick Markakis or Adam Jones turning into a primadonna.

Can't see that happening with Adam Jones.

Big Mac

02-09-2009, 05:36 PM

El Gordo

02-09-2009, 05:36 PM

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds could make it happen. Otherwise, I'm not sure what could make us get that creative. :laughlol:
Doesn't DT cover that tune....oh no it's the other guy that looks just like him.:laughlol:

Big Mac

02-09-2009, 05:38 PM

Can't see that happening with Adam Jones.

I don't either, but I just don't see how Manny would really be a good influence on him. Could he maybe show him a thing or two about hitting? Yeah, probably. However he would also be a fine example of how to play the outfield like you're deaf and blind and how to completely disrespect the game of baseball.

Nigel Tufnel

02-09-2009, 05:39 PM

I'm surprised Tampa Bay isn't making a run at him, because you know he would just destroy Yankees and Red Sox pitching this year. But he's probably too expensive for them, too.

Singleton

02-09-2009, 05:46 PM

No, but I think that if something happens to Donnie Murphy in spring training we may be interested in acquiring Chase Utley.

Funniest post I've read on here ever!

DrLev

02-09-2009, 05:49 PM

he'd NEVER pass the Angelos All-Invasive Physical! ;)

You've just put an image in my head that I'll never be able to get out.

Thanks a lot.

:eek:

clapdiddy

02-09-2009, 05:51 PM

You've just put an image in my head that I'll never be able to get out.

Thanks a lot.

:eek:

I don't know if its possible, but I'd love to see a photo with a doctor's body putting on a rubber glove, and Angelos' head on him! That would be priceless! :laughlol:

Mark Carver

02-09-2009, 05:54 PM

I'm surprised Tampa Bay isn't making a run at him, because you know he would just destroy Yankees and Red Sox pitching this year. But he's probably too expensive for them, too.

The Rays had a payroll of $43m in 2008 (I don't know what their 2009 is gonna be, but not like too much more). But Manny turned down a $25m offer from the Dodgers...

BirdMan

02-09-2009, 05:59 PM

No...No...No...No...NO! Manny Rameriez would kill any clubhouse improvement we try to make we ditched Tejada and Hernandez do we need another who is worse than both of them combined?

Torre says just the opposite. Says his work ethic is second to none and great with young players.

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 06:04 PM

Torre says just the opposite. Says his work ethic is second to none and great with young players.

But who are we going to believe? The manager who saw him up-close for fifteen years, or a ravenous media looking to overplay any Boston potential story?

Bemore

02-09-2009, 06:05 PM

Torre says just the opposite. Says his work ethic is second to none and great with young players.

Sure, cause they're trying to sign him. What will Torre say about Manny when Torre's done in LA? Another tell-all book might have a different story.

Belkast

02-09-2009, 06:08 PM

This is really not worthy of discussion. There is as much chance of Manny becoming an Oriole as there is Barry Bonds.

Sweet....We're getting Manny and Barry Bonds!!!!! All right, Andy!!! Wooohooo!!!!!!!!! Anyone know if we are still in on the Babe!?!:D

Seriously, Manny is not coming here! I know the subject keeps coming up over and over again but all it is doing is clogging up the board.

I don't know specifics about Wiggington but I have heard that there is nothing serious going on and it will be official soon. Exactly what is happening, I don't know, but it sounds like no big deal. It was funny to hear the PGA bashers come back out. Some of you guys are like vampires!

Since'54

02-09-2009, 06:08 PM

Like he did to Ortiz and Pedroia and Youkillis? :rolleyes:

I will believe until proven otherwise that most of "Manny being Manny" was an invention by the same Boston media everyone seems to hate and question on any other topic, and that he is just an eccentric guy who happens to be one of the best pure hitters of this generation.No one would care about anything he did if he was a .750 OPS guy ("When you win 20 in The Show you can let the fungus grow all over your shower shoes and the press will think you're colorful. Until then it just means you're a slob!")

I'd take him to play DH, assuming he would do that. And anyone who wouldn't I would seriously question their priorities (especially using some vague "clubhouse" reason).

Can you be serious here? If so, you've been paying no attention to Boston baseball for several years. Of course he's a marvelous hitter. But he's the worst clubhouse cancer you can imagine. He's twice taken extended time off with phantom physical concerns which no doctor's exam could ever detect. This last year he (and Boras) decided to get out of his Bosox contract and dogged it until the Sox had to choose between suspending him and sending him to the Dodgers. Sox players , fans, owners, all publically said "Good riddance!" and welcomed Jason Bay as his replacement -- though Bay will never be an equal player.

O's are Legends

02-09-2009, 06:11 PM

Schmuck,

Orioles: Wigginton on hold, not sure if this has been posted
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2009/02/orioles_lets_get_physical.html

BeerIsFood

02-09-2009, 06:21 PM

No thanks. That great bat of his does not outweigh his horrible attitude and clubhouse presense. Pass big time.

Anonymous

02-09-2009, 06:24 PM

If Wiggy is not signed would we be interested in Manny? Manny would be the bat we need to have some protection for our younger hitters. Would we be willing to take that chance?I'm trying to figure out which I dislike more: the idea of acquiring Manny; or the misleading nature of the thread title.

BRobinsonfan

02-09-2009, 06:32 PM

This is really not worthy of discussion. There is as much chance of Manny becoming an Oriole as there is Barry Bonds.

Wait a minute... Barry Bonds is becoming an Oriole?
;)

blid

02-09-2009, 06:52 PM

This is really not worthy of discussion. There is as much chance of Manny becoming an Oriole as there is Barry Bonds.Imagine the murderer's row we could have if we sign Bonds. He could be a good DH and bat cleanup between Markakis and Huff, who'd be followed by Wieters, who'd be followed by Manny in the 7 slot.

Big Mac

02-09-2009, 06:59 PM

Imagine the murderer's row we could have if we sign Bonds. He could be a good DH and bat cleanup between Markakis and Huff, who'd be followed by Wieters, who'd be followed by Manny in the 7 slot.

I really hope you just forgot one of these.;)

olehippi

02-09-2009, 07:00 PM

Well....if all the O's are concerned about is adding a bat....and if it turns out that Wigginton is missing an arm or a leg......I guess they can always shift gears since Adam Dunn is still out there.

Moose Milligan

02-09-2009, 07:14 PM

I'd love to see us get Ramirez.

Awesome bat in the lineup, and to see a bunch of people here have mild strokes all at once would be hilarious :)

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 07:43 PM

Can you be serious here? If so, you've been paying no attention to Boston baseball for several years. Of course he's a marvelous hitter. But he's the worst clubhouse cancer you can imagine. He's twice taken extended time off with phantom physical concerns which no doctor's exam could ever detect. This last year he (and Boras) decided to get out of his Bosox contract and dogged it until the Sox had to choose between suspending him and sending him to the Dodgers. Sox players , fans, owners, all publically said "Good riddance!" and welcomed Jason Bay as his replacement -- though Bay will never be an equal player.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=ramirma02&year=2008

I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
+-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
April/March 28 28 117 105 18 36 9 1 6 20 11 2 28 1 0 0 0 2 1 0 .343 .410 .619 1.029 .423 178 98 April/March
May 26 25 116 101 15 23 4 0 4 15 13 1 22 2 0 0 1 3 0 0 .228 .328 .386 .714 .253 94 40 May
June 24 23 99 84 15 24 3 0 6 17 14 2 21 1 0 0 1 5 0 0 .286 .394 .536 .930 .316 147 81 June
July 22 21 93 75 18 26 6 0 4 16 14 3 15 4 0 0 1 2 0 0 .347 .473 .587 1.060 .393 179 108 July
August 29 29 128 106 21 44 7 0 9 25 18 8 18 3 0 1 2 4 2 0 .415 .508 .736 1.244 .438 225 141 August
Sept/Oct 24 24 101 81 15 30 7 0 8 28 17 8 20 0 0 3 1 1 0 0 .370 .465 .753 1.218 .393 218 133 Sept/Oct

So he was "dogging it" in May only? 'Cause from where I'm sitting June and July look pretty darn good.

And the fans listen to the media, who had it in for him.

PrivateO

02-09-2009, 07:48 PM

Sweet....We're getting Manny and Barry Bonds!!!!! All right, Andy!!! Wooohooo!!!!!!!!! Anyone know if we are still in on the Babe!?!:D

Seriously, Manny is not coming here! I know the subject keeps coming up over and over again but all it is doing is clogging up the board.

I don't know specifics about Wiggington but I have heard that there is nothing serious going on and it will be official soon. Exactly what is happening, I don't know, but it sounds like no big deal. It was funny to hear the PGA bashers come back out. Some of you guys are like vampires!

Thanks for the info as always Belkast. I hope you continue posting on a regular basis.

Big Mac

02-09-2009, 07:52 PM

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=ramirma02&year=2008

I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
+-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
April/March 28 28 117 105 18 36 9 1 6 20 11 2 28 1 0 0 0 2 1 0 .343 .410 .619 1.029 .423 178 98 April/March
May 26 25 116 101 15 23 4 0 4 15 13 1 22 2 0 0 1 3 0 0 .228 .328 .386 .714 .253 94 40 May
June 24 23 99 84 15 24 3 0 6 17 14 2 21 1 0 0 1 5 0 0 .286 .394 .536 .930 .316 147 81 June
July 22 21 93 75 18 26 6 0 4 16 14 3 15 4 0 0 1 2 0 0 .347 .473 .587 1.060 .393 179 108 July
August 29 29 128 106 21 44 7 0 9 25 18 8 18 3 0 1 2 4 2 0 .415 .508 .736 1.244 .438 225 141 August
Sept/Oct 24 24 101 81 15 30 7 0 8 28 17 8 20 0 0 3 1 1 0 0 .370 .465 .753 1.218 .393 218 133 Sept/Oct

So he was "dogging it" in May only? 'Cause from where I'm sitting June and July look pretty darn good.

And the fans listen to the media, who had it in for him.

Manny pretty much quit on his team in the middle of a pennant race last season, there's really no question about that.

wickedwitch

02-09-2009, 07:58 PM

Manny pretty much quit on his team in the middle of a pennant race last season, there's really no question about that.

Well, I'm not certain about it and as I am not alone, clearly there is some question.

snapper

02-09-2009, 08:02 PM

From a total business standpoint, the one I tend to take, signing Manny would be the greatest transaction this ballclub has made in ages. This coming from only a monetary standpoint. Jerseys would sell out, wigs would sell out, and any type of merchandise with his face or logo on it would be sold out. I'm not trying to back Boras, but he does make a point with the amount of money you can make off of his client. Now, if we signed Manny, this would of course be the worst transaction having since the signing of Albert Belle, if you would take the winning-at-all-costs strategy. If Angelos wants to make money, more than what he already is, I would at least offer him a 3 or 4 year deal at $12-15 million a piece just to get media coverage and a good laugh and slap in the face to Boras. At the minimum, giving him some form of contract proposal would be worth a shot, wouldn't one think?

getxstoked

02-09-2009, 08:04 PM

Manny pretty much carried a team on his shoulders in the middle of a pennant race last season, there's really no question about that.

I'm pretty sure that's what actually happened.

Big Mac

02-09-2009, 08:06 PM

I'm pretty sure that's what actually happened.

Yeah after he got traded to LA. He packed it in in Boston though, no doubt. He didn't give it his all until he got what he wanted. That's pretty much the gist I get from Manny, it's all about him first and the team second.

JTrea81

02-09-2009, 08:18 PM

OT- Wow, I'm in four people's sigs. That's gotta be a record... :laughlol:

Moose Milligan

02-09-2009, 08:19 PM

OT- Wow, I'm in four people's sigs. That's gotta be a record... :laughlol:

I wouldn't take that as a positive, Sly.

clapdiddy

02-09-2009, 08:26 PM

I'd love to see us get Ramirez.

Awesome bat in the lineup, and to see a bunch of people here have mild strokes all at once would be hilarious :)

How could you NOT want Ramirez on your team...seriously? The guy practically carried the Dodgers into the post-season, and I think he could hit if he were asleep.

Wouldn't that be something if we were to get him, put him in LF, and use Pie as the 4th OF? You'd have a lineup looking like:
Roberts
Jones
Markakis
Manny
Huff
Luke (Wieters later)
Mora (Luke later)
Zaun (Mora later)
Izturis

Holy cow...that team would put up a massive amount of runs! :D

clarence

02-09-2009, 08:58 PM

Now we're talking. Dunn at first, Manny in left, Pie 4th outfielder, Bonds dh'ing, trade Scott for great young pitching and shortstop prospect. If AM would get off his butt, he should have this done by next Monday.

BRob
Markakis
Manny
Bonds
Dunn
Weiters
Huff
Mora
Izturis

Now make it happen Andy.

Sanfran327

02-09-2009, 09:02 PM

We DON'T NEED MANNY

If you don't want Manny, that's fine; just make a better argument than "we don't need him." EVERY team in MLB needs Manny, and the ONLY reason he hasn't been signed yet is because of the contract he wants. Nobody doubts his talent, but in this market, every team is a little weary of giving him what he wants (even though it would be worth every penny for what he does on the field).

I understand the sentiment, but to say we don't need him is kinda silly, IMO.

PrivateO

02-09-2009, 09:18 PM

OT- Wow, I'm in four people's sigs. That's gotta be a record... :laughlol:

And that's only the ones you notice. :D

bumblebee

02-09-2009, 09:24 PM

O's couldn't afford Manny, on multiple fronts. The guy can hit, though.

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 09:29 PM

Yeah after he got traded to LA. He packed it in in Boston though, no doubt. He didn't give it his all until he got what he wanted. That's pretty much the gist I get from Manny, it's all about him first and the team second.

So...did you bother to look at the stats that directly contradict your statement, or did you just decide that if you don't acknowledge them they don't exist?

anselmO

02-09-2009, 09:37 PM

Everyone seems to forget the absolute NUMBER ONE reason why Manny Ramirez would never consider playing for the Orioles:

THE HAIR. Not a chance in hell he would ever cut his hair and shave down to play for a non-contender. He won't lose the dreads for the O's. Manny wouldn't be Manny without them. Sad but true.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/brutus%20beefcake" target="_blank"><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x310/The_Ultimate_Wrestling_Gallery/Brutus%20Beefcake/BrutusBeefcake009.jpg" border="0" alt="Brutus Beefcake Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/manny%20ramirez" target="_blank"><img src="http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/cprimo8/manny.jpg" border="0" alt="Manny Ramirez Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

...not happenin'

Big Mac

02-09-2009, 09:44 PM

So...did you bother to look at the stats that directly contradict your statement, or did you just decide that if you don't acknowledge them they don't exist?

For once for me, it's not about the stats on this one. Did Manny still put up numbers with the Sox last year? Yes, of course he did, he is one of the greatest hitters of all time after all.

However, in regards to how he carried himself on the field, it just appeared that he quit.

Sports Guy

02-09-2009, 10:06 PM

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2009/02/orioles_lets_get_physical.html

OrangeJerseys

02-09-2009, 10:11 PM

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 10:23 PM

For once for me, it's not about the stats on this one. Did Manny still put up numbers with the Sox last year? Yes, of course he did, he is one of the greatest hitters of all time after all.

However, in regards to how he carried himself on the field, it just appeared that he quit.

How exactly? Did he stop running out grounders (I don't remember him ever being know for running them out)? Did he lollygag around the outfield (he never seemed to be playing defense any different from what I remember seeing)?

Anonymous

02-09-2009, 10:26 PM

How exactly? Did he stop running out grounders (I don't remember him ever being know for running them out)? Did he lollygag around the outfield (he never seemed to be playing defense any different from what I remember seeing)?I think I just found the guy I want to hire as opposition counsel next time I go to court.

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 10:31 PM

I think I just found the guy I want to hire as opposition counsel next time I go to court.

Hey, I believe I'm right, and have yet to see anything to suggest otherwise.

You can't just use "He quit on the team" as a reason without any evidence, especially when the evidence we have suggests different.

Intimidator301

02-09-2009, 10:54 PM

Well, Manny is a great hitter, that's for sure.

However, one bit of evidence that showed he may have quit on the Red Sox is he claimed he was injured, and refused to play. The Red Sox had MRI's done that showed nothing.

Then, once traded to the Dodgers, the injuries seemingly went away. It also later came out that the Red Sox were about to fine him for every game he sat out, just to get him to play. So, obviously the Red Sox thought he quit on them.

Can you imagine Manny in the hot humid days of summer here in Baltimore in July and August, when we're 15 games out?

Like I said, Mannys a great player. When he wants to be or feels like it. Everyone knows Manny was motivated with the Dodgers to shove it in the faces of the Red Sox. I wouldn't give him anything more than a 1 year deal.

Big Mac

02-09-2009, 11:03 PM

Hey, I believe I'm right, and have yet to see anything to suggest otherwise.

You can't just use "He quit on the team" as a reason without any evidence, especially when the evidence we have suggests different.

What "evidence" are you talking about. You can't prove that Manny Ramirez didn't quit on his team using stats.

Manny's effort, his dedication to his team, and respect to an organization can't be measured in OPS, OBP, or HR. I'm not arguing that he didn't produce for Boston last season, he certainly did. The fact is based on what I saw and what was reported it appeared that Manny Ramirez quit on him team and disrespected the game.

How about this little bit from Manny:

“The Red Sox don’t deserve a player like me”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/sports/baseball/31manny.html

Or this gem from Theo Epstein, following the trade:

There was an environment that was not conducive to winning surrounding this club We wanted to change that if we could.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/08/sox_moving_on_w.html

Remember this incident?

On June 28, Ramirez shoved 64-year-old traveling secretary Jack McCormick to the ground inside Houston's Minute Maid Park clubhouse after Ramirez was told McCormick might not be able to accommodate his 16-ticket request.

How about how the Red Sox were ready to suspend Manny for refusing to play?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3704917

Epstein attended a team meeting Francona held earlier in the day and, he said, the Red Sox feel like a team "and it hasn't felt like that in a while."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/01/SPR2123JHP.DTL

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 11:15 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=manny

We know for sure that, heading into the last year of a $160 million deal that seemed lavish at the time and turned out to be money well spent, Boston's hierarchy (Epstein and owners John Henry, Tom Werner and Larry Lucchino) basically told Manny and Boras, "We aren't giving you an extension after the best offensive stretch in Red Sox history that didn't involve Ted Williams, and we're also not deciding on our 2009 and 2010 options yet. Let's see how you do this season." In other words, welcome to no-man's land! By not making a decision, the Red Sox did make a decision: They turned the situation over to Boras and expected his most impressionable client to handle himself with professionalism and class. Like that would happen.

Once Manny shifted into sulk mode, the Red Sox wasted no time painting him as a malcontent. After Manny berated the team's 64-year-old traveling secretary and shoved the poor guy to the ground, the team did everything but hire actors to re-enact the incident on www.redsox.com. After Manny skipped a crucial game against the Yankees, claiming he had a sore knee, management made a point of getting MRIs on both knees and telling reporters he was fine. Did the team ever suspend him? Of course not. That would have made too much sense. Once the old school baseball writers started hissing that Manny didn't respect The Game, for many Boston fans, that was the final straw. And maybe they were right -- after all, it's indefensible to quit on your team just because you don't like your bosses, especially in November when you're about to make crucial trades and free-agent signings.

(Whoops, I'm getting my "Guys Who Quit on the Red Sox" confused! I'm thinking of Epstein, who ditched them after the 2005 season because he was tired of dealing with Lucchino. Sorry about that.)

As the trading deadline approached and Manny continued his "Beavis and Butt-Head" routine, the team steadfastly refused to suspend him or publicly call out his home-wrecking agent. Why? I couldn't possibly tell you. Maybe the Sox wanted Manny to keep hanging himself. In a July game against the Angels, Manny hit a double-play ball and jogged to first base with the intensity of an underpaid bus boy cleaning a table at Denny's. I watched it happen live on TV and didn't blink. On the NESN broadcast, Jerry Remy was coughing up a lung in disgust. Look, I've seen Manny pull this crap at least 200 times in eight years. This was worse than the other 199 times? Come on. Over the course of the next 72 hours, "Baseball Tonight" probably spent 68 of those hours replaying that highlight while Buster Olney's face turned various shades of maroon.

The critics quickly began singing a familiar chorus: Manny doesn't respect The Game! He just doesn't respect The Game! The guy just DOES NOT respect The Game! Manny ... Ramirez ... does not ... respect ... The Game!

...

We should also mention that ...

A. Boston won two titles with a Hall of Famer who didn't respect The Game (Manny) and zero titles with a Hall of Famer who did (Carl Yastrzemski).

B. Players considered "Respects The Game" guys in their primes include Pete Rose (convicted felon, baseball gambler), Roger Clemens (identified as a cheater in the Mitchell Report) and (fill in the names of at least 12-15 other major stars from the Steroids Era).

...

A defining play or anecdote would get things rolling: Maybe he'd duck a game against a top pitcher, miss a team meeting, dog a flyball or whatever. The media would descend like wolverines because that's what they do in Boston. A few rumored deals would collapse, everything would settle down, and we would start cheering for Manny again.

...

Look, I understand how a jerk like Bonds would have been a dreadful teammate: massive ego, bombastic personality, substantial sense of entitlement, painful sense of humor, hogged three lockers, always had 40 media members crowding around him. But what was Manny doing exactly? How was Manny's latest "funk" much different than Carlos Delgado seemingly mailing it in until Willie Randolph was fired, then miraculously regaining the ability to smile and hit home runs for Jerry Manuel? For anyone who believes the Manny trade saved the 2008 season -- with the theory being the Sox came together after his departure -- how do we know that wouldn't have happened anyway? Their schedule was significantly easier in August and September. Young relievers Justin Masterson and Manny Delcarmen settled into a groove down the stretch, something that would have happened with or without Manny. And do you really think a Boras client would sabotage his final two months before free agency? As for the "We couldn't rely on Manny anymore" argument, why could you wager your mortgage on him in September and October? During the winning postseasons in '04 and '07, Manny had 135 plate appearances, reached base 62 times, drove in 27 RBIs, stroked 12 extra-base hits, made it impossible to pitch around Ortiz and worked God-knows-how-many pitch counts. Was that reliable enough for you?

And that's just parts of the first half of it. If you think any part of this was solely his fault, you just really want it to be that way.

Fairfax Bird

02-09-2009, 11:22 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=manny

And that's just parts of the first half of it. If you think any part of this was solely his fault, you just really want it to be that way.

Are you seriously going to defend a player who just stopped trying last year? Seriously? I mean Manny is great, quirky, but he quit on his team, which is unacceptable.

Anonymous

02-09-2009, 11:23 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=manny

And that's just parts of the first half of it. If you think any part of this was solely his fault, you just really want it to be that way.And once again, counsel, making a fine case against Manny. If this guy doesn't scream cancer in the clubhouse, few do. Or perhaps there's no such thing. All you need to do is grab the stat sheets for all the guys on your team (and solely the OFFENSIVE stat sheets, because after all defense doesn't matter either); add them up; and voila ... we determine everything we need to know about how well the team will perform that year.

bej6789

02-09-2009, 11:28 PM

No, but I think that if something happens to Donnie Murphy in spring training we may be interested in acquiring Chase Utley.

:clap3:

thread over, we have our winner.

BaltimoreTerp

02-09-2009, 11:50 PM

And once again, counsel, making a fine case against Manny. If this guy doesn't scream cancer in the clubhouse, few do. Or perhaps there's no such thing. All you need to do is grab the stat sheets for all the guys on your team (and solely the OFFENSIVE stat sheets, because after all defense doesn't matter either); add them up; and voila ... we determine everything we need to know about how well the team will perform that year.

Defense doesn't matter if you're playing DH, unless they changed the rules recently and I didn't hear.

And I think it's really funny that you quoted my post to make your point, yet apparently forgot to read the parts that invalidate that very point: that any "cancer" thing actually MATTERS.

Go on and read it again. I'll even help you: it's that last paragraph I quoted.

bmorebirds_24

02-10-2009, 12:02 AM

Is this a serious thread? Manny an Oriole? It be nice for one or two years, but he ain't changing his ways, the O's ain't paying him and he will ruin the clubhouse. I'd love to have his bat, but his attitude is a no go for me.

carolinaoriole

02-10-2009, 12:41 AM

I would rather lose 162 games every season for the next 100 years than have Manny on the orioles for 1 year .

maudibjr

02-10-2009, 01:06 AM

How do you make the mental leap from Wiggy to Manny? Curious as to what thought process that took.

JimDH

02-10-2009, 07:37 AM

I would rather lose 162 games every season for the next 100 years than have Manny on the orioles for 1 year .

Well, given those 2 choices I may be able to live with Ramirez on the team.
But I dont want him on the team.

TonySoprano

02-10-2009, 08:28 AM

Exactly what is happening, I don't know, but it sounds like no big deal. It was funny to hear the PGA bashers come back out. Some of you guys are like vampires!One guy made a comment, which was funny, particularly to those who remember Xavier Nady and Aaron Sele.

clapdiddy

02-10-2009, 11:22 AM

Looks like Wigginton will be announced today or tomorrow....

Wiggy Close (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2009/02/orioles_wigginton_close.html)

TJ Wrangler

02-10-2009, 11:26 AM

I would rather lose 162 games every season for the next 100 years than have Manny on the orioles for 1 year .

I'd imagine you're in the minority here.

Ruzious

02-10-2009, 11:33 AM

I would rather lose 162 games every season for the next 100 years than have Manny on the orioles for 1 year .
Peter Angelos loves you.

mikezpen

02-10-2009, 11:54 AM

I cannot imagine the Orioles even thinking in passing about Ramirez much less signing him.

Re: Aubrey Huff. Having lost Teixiera, the Angels have nothing in the way of power LH bat at first or elsewhere in the infield. Could there be a match there?

TinCup

02-10-2009, 12:08 PM

Today is Tuesday....I'll say within a week's time there will appear yet another nonsensical thread having to do with either a) Manny and the O's, or b) Barry Bonds and the O's. :rolleyes:

Painfully inevitable. :(

O'sFan'71

02-10-2009, 12:37 PM

I'd rather not have Manny. As much as I like his bat and the power he would bring to the lineup, it gets erased by the distractions he would cause in the clubhouse. He's also a lazy fielder, so no thanks.

Since'54

02-10-2009, 07:46 PM

So...did you bother to look at the stats that directly contradict your statement, or did you just decide that if you don't acknowledge them they don't exist? it.

You just don't know anything at all about this. I don't know any other way of saying it.

It's as if a Boston fan announced that the Orioles had excellent defensive production and maximum hustle out of the catching position last year. Or wonderful defense and strong hitting from shortstop.

BaltimoreTerp

02-10-2009, 08:03 PM

Or wonderful defense and strong hitting from shortstop.

They could see how wrong they were for that one in the stats, though ;)

oriolefaithful

02-10-2009, 08:40 PM

Wiggy signed. Who do we DFA when we sign Manny

Mackus

02-10-2009, 08:46 PM

Wiggy signed. Who do we DFA when we sign MannyProbably Manny.

BaltimoreTerp

02-10-2009, 08:48 PM

Probably Manny.

Just Manny Designating Manny...

Since'54

02-10-2009, 09:01 PM

Just Manny Designating Manny...

OK. You know nothing about Ramirez and the Red Sox but that's pretty funny.