Lost 2/11 "This Place is Death"

[DuffMan]

Here's the write up for tonight's episode, highlight below to read.
Locke takes on the burden to stop the island's increasingly violent shifts through time. Meanwhile, Ben hits a roadblock in his attempt to reunite the Oceanic 6 and bring them back to the island.

It appears we are going to find out who Sun really wants to kill. The more I think about it the more I think it's Jack, but with this show you never know. I'm also hoping they show some of Rousauu tonight as well. She never got a flash back episode and this is the next best thing, could be interesting.

[PaulFolk]

(SPOILER SPACE)






Another quality episode. As predicted by many, Mrs. Hawkins is indeed Daniel's mother. I'm interested to find out how the heck she knows so much about the island-- did she used to live there? Is she the Ellie we saw a couple episodes back?

Poor Locke-- the island was a life-changing experience for him, but now that he's left, he'll never see it again in his life. We'll see what he has to say to the Oceanic Six once he finds them.

And we're down one cast member as Charlotte kicks the bucket. She wasn't a very important character in the grand scheme of things. I assume we'll have an upcoming episode in which Faraday finds young Charlotte and tells her never to come back to the island (not that it'll do any good).

What becomes of Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, and Miles? And are there any other Lostaways still roaming around somewhere (like Rose and Bernard?)

[ccbird]

Just a couple of random notes thoughts.

-Return of the smoke monster and again it takes a human form to lure people into a trap. Interesting to know if the person Danielle shot on the beach was actually human or possibly smokie taking his form. Either way I think it was apparent that he wasn't the same person after entering Smokie's lair and he was indeed "sick" as Danielle claimed.




-It seemed Ben didn't know Hawking was Faradys mom. Plus now that Desmond is in L.A. he has to assume Penny is there with him and I suspect Ben will be going for her before he leaves for the island. While I would hate to see it happen my gut tells me Ben will find and kill her.


-Also, it seems Ben may have knew at the time he turned the wheel that Locke was supposed to do it and that bad things would happen to those left on the island once he turned the wheel. BTW, I was distracted briefly during the Christian -Locke conversation but was there something wrong with the wheel itself??? Did Christian say when John turned the wheel that it was slightly dislodged or something?? Who knows maybe Ben had intentionally messed up the wheel causing all the islanders problems knowing John would have to leave the island and giving him the opportunity to return




In conclusion I guess what I finally fully realized tonight is that Ben is the "bad guy" if there is such a thing on the LOST. Not that you ever got the feeling he should be trusted or he was ever fully honest but there were times where you felt he may have some redeeming qualities and actually had good intentions. I get the sense eventually Annie, his childhood friend, will play a role in getting Ben to pull a Darth Vader and eventually go out doing one final good dead for the Losties but for the immediate future I think you'll see a continued selfishness and evil streak from Ben Linus.

[DuffMan]

Another quality episode. As predicted by many, Mrs. Hawkins is indeed Daniel's mother. I'm interested to find out how the heck she knows so much about the island-- did she used to live there? Is she the Ellie we saw a couple episodes back?
That would seem to be a good guess, it seems to be that most people that know a thing or two about the island have been there before at some point.


Poor Locke-- the island was a life-changing experience for him, but now that he's left, he'll never see it again in his life. We'll see what he has to say to the Oceanic Six once he finds them.
I wouldn't be so sure that he's dead for good. The look on Terry O Quinn's face when Christian mentioned the word sacrifice was amazing, had to feel for Locke, tehre. I could see him coming back to life if/when they get everyone back to the Island. I'm a little confused though about what he says to the 6. Because it seems to me that he never sees/finds any of them. He didn't find Sun, because Ben had Jin's ring which he had given Locke.


And we're down one cast member as Charlotte kicks the bucket. She wasn't a very important character in the grand scheme of things. I assume we'll have an upcoming episode in which Faraday finds young Charlotte and tells her never to come back to the island (not that it'll do any good).

I totally forgot that she could speak Korean, and definitely enjoyed that little scene with her Jin and Miles. Definitely a creepy scene when she told Jin to keep Sun away from the island because "This Place is Death"
Agreed on that time jump of Faraday telling a young Charlotte to stay away, this could be the same time when he goes downstairs and finds the wheel.


What becomes of Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, and Miles? And are there any other Lostaways still roaming around somewhere (like Rose and Bernard?)
I'm sure the first four around somewhere, as for Rose and Bernard I think they have been frequent enough characters that we will see them again at some point. They seemed to have survived the flaming arrow attack.



-Return of the smoke monster and again it takes a human form to lure people into a trap. Interesting to know if the person Danielle shot on the beach was actually human or possibly smokie taking his form. Either way I think it was apparent that he wasn't the same person after entering Smokie's lair and he was indeed "sick" as Danielle claimed.
Seeing the smoke monster was great! At first I didn't pick up on the sound, than once I did I knew Smokey would be showing up at some point. My only complaint about the whole Danielle scenes were I felt like it was kind of rushed (which is surprising considering Lost use to drag things out), but I guess you do get enough feel of how that could make her crazy. A question to anyone that can remember. After the plane crashed on the Island had Roussau ever come across Jin??


-It seemed Ben didn't know Hawking was Faradys mom. Plus now that Desmond is in L.A. he has to assume Penny is there with him and I suspect Ben will be going for her before he leaves for the island. While I would hate to see it happen my gut tells me Ben will find and kill her.

This is definitely possible, but to me Ben's chief concern is getting back to the island. By the way how great was the scene where he slams on the breaks in the van and scolds both Jack and Sun. The looks on their faces were great!


-Also, it seems Ben may have knew at the time he turned the wheel that Locke was supposed to do it and that bad things would happen to those left on the island once he turned the wheel. BTW, I was distracted briefly during the Christian -Locke conversation but was there something wrong with the wheel itself??? Did Christian say when John turned the wheel that it was slightly dislodged or something??
I'm not sure if Ben knew that Locke was supposed to turn the wheel, but Christian knew that and pointed that out to him. Christian told John that when Ben turned the wheel it "came off it's axis" a bit and that he had to push it alittle bit to fix it.

[DuffMan]

A few other thoughts from last nights episode in no particular order.

I still don't totally get Sun's reasons for blaming Ben, but that seems to be done as she's on board with getting back to the Island.

I wonder if Desmond will have to return to the Island with the Six. Now that he is in LA it appears possible that he can go back.

What was up with the hieroglyphics on the temple? How long has it been there?

The smoke monster is the security system for the temple (I read that back in season 1 she referred to it as this as well), although what it is and is it controlled by anyone remains to be seen. And tell me you didn't like the scene where they pulled the guys arm off!?:awesome:

Who is in charge here? There seems to be so many players and I wonder if they are all working together or do theyhave their own agendas. Mainly I'm thinking of Ben, Richard, Christian/Jacob.

[SJA]

I wouldn't be so sure that he's dead for good. The look on Terry O Quinn's face when Christian mentioned the word sacrifice was amazing, had to feel for Locke, there.
I have to say that the scene that I really liked was when Jin was trying to convince Locke not to bring Sun back. You could just see the wheels turning in Locke’s mind as to how he could do it without breaking his promise to Jin.


I'm a little confused though about what he says to the 6. Because it seems to me that he never sees/finds any of them. He didn't find Sun, because Ben had Jin's ring which he had given Locke.
I agree that he never found Sun. But I thought that at the funeral parlor Ben asked Jack if “Bentham” had come to see him and Jack said, “Yes”. I thought another character had confirmed talking with him as well (maybe Hurley, but I can’t recall the exact scene)



I totally forgot that she could speak Korean, and definitely enjoyed that little scene with her Jin and Miles. Definitely a creepy scene when she told Jin to keep Sun away from the island because "This Place is Death"
I’m wondering if that quote has a deeper meaning. The shows producers are usually very careful/creative with episode titles. I will have to check Doc Jensens column later as he usually gives some quality insight.


A question to anyone that can remember. After the plane crashed on the Island had Roussau ever come across Jin??
In the Exodus Part I, Danielle came to the beach to warn the Losties that the Others were coming to take their babies. Jin was there, but the producers were careful to never show the two having any direct conversation. Though it has been speculated by some that she may not remember meeting Jin because she has gone a little crazy after all her crew got “sick”, her baby got “taken” and she lived alone for another 16 yrs on the island….as a result of her craziness, she just couldn’t recognize Jin.

[PaulFolk]

I wouldn't be so sure that he's dead for good. The look on Terry O Quinn's face when Christian mentioned the word sacrifice was amazing, had to feel for Locke, tehre. I could see him coming back to life if/when they get everyone back to the Island. I'm a little confused though about what he says to the 6. Because it seems to me that he never sees/finds any of them. He didn't find Sun, because Ben had Jin's ring which he had given Locke.
I think Hurley mentioned in a flash-forward last season that "Jeremy Bentham" came to see him. Sayid recognized the name, too. And don't forget Walt-- he visited Hurley at the asylum and said Bentham visited him, too. So Locke talks to at least a few people, but maybe not all of them.


I'm sure the first four around somewhere, as for Rose and Bernard I think they have been frequent enough characters that we will see them again at some point. They seemed to have survived the flaming arrow attack.
I guess my question is, when are they? What time/year is it now on the island after Locke turned the wheel?


Seeing the smoke monster was great! At first I didn't pick up on the sound, than once I did I knew Smokey would be showing up at some point. My only complaint about the whole Danielle scenes were I felt like it was kind of rushed (which is surprising considering Lost use to drag things out), but I guess you do get enough feel of how that could make her crazy. A question to anyone that can remember. After the plane crashed on the Island had Roussau ever come across Jin??
Jin definitely recognized Rousseau's name when she introduced herself-- that's how he knew he had traveled back in time. Of course, that doesn't mean Rousseau talked to him after the plane crash. Maybe Jin just heard about her from the other survivors. I don't remember them having any scenes together before Rousseau died.

[Witchy Chick]

Hey – sorry I wasn’t able to join in the discussion of last week’s ep. Busy-ness at work and home kept me….ummmm......busy. ;)


First off, I am sooooo sooooo happy that there is an ending date in place for LOST. The show seems much more tightly developed and as a result, reveals are coming fast and furious. (I reallllly appreciated Mrs. Hawking being revealed as Dan’s mum; if no end date was in sight, that tidbit could’ve been dragged out 12, 15, 20+ episodes.)


Jeremy Davies (Dan) is a wonderful addition to the cast. I did not care much about the character of Charlotte overall. But, I did get emotional over her death because of Dan’s heartbreak (despite being ambivalent about their “love story”). Also, Faraday’s emphatic statement to Sawyer about “you can’t change the past” seems to stem from (possibly) Charlotte’s death. See if I have this correct: Charlotte dies. Faraday travels back to Dharma days (we saw him in Dharma uniform during the attempted excavation of the donkey wheel). During his Dharma days jaunt, he tells a child named Charlotte to never return to the island if she leaves it at some point. Charlotte does not get this “memory” (much like Des’ memory of having to find Dan’s mother) until later in life……when it’s already too late. Dan was not able to change the past (and “save” Charlotte). Does that make sense? :scratchchinhmm:


I’m wondering over the “temporal shift symptoms.” Charlotte was the first one to start with the headaches, memory loss, and nosebleeds correct? Then, Miles got a nosebleed (and headache)? Charlotte – by her own admission – grew up on the island. I suspect that Miles is the offspring of Dr. Chang/Wickman/Candle. If this is the case, Miles clearly spent time (as an infant) on the island.....like Charlotte. Juliette and Sawyer started with the nosebleeds in last night's ep. Juliette has been on the island (roughly) three years longer then Sawyer (but their symptoms started at the same time). Sawyer has been on the island the same amount of time as Locke, Jin, Rose, and Bernard. Why is Sawyer suffering from the nosebleeds and the others (hahhaa) are not (although we haven’t seen Rose and Bernard lately; they could be suffering from the time shifts also). No nosebleeds (that we've seen) for Jin or Locke. Also confusing the issue is that Des seemed to be suffering from the time-travel nosebleeds (before the donkey wheel was even turned?) while on the freighter with Jin and Michael. (Des also having been on the island for three years like Juliette.) But, Des is “special” according to Faraday. Or was Des saved from temporal shift symptoms by his constant (Penny)? OY – my head hurts (and not in a temporal shift symptom way ;)).


Re: Charlotte’s pre-death ramblings -- Who do you think her Daddy is? :confused: I'm certain that lineage will come into play.


Terry O’Quinn is amazing. The scene at the end with “Christian” was just incredible to me. :clap3:


Nice to see Smokey again (although Montaund losing his arm was pretty gruesome :puke:). I’m going with Smokey “infecting” the rest of the team when they tried to rescue Montaund. Danielle was not infected (because Jin convinced her to remain outside to keep her baby safe) and was forced to kill the rest of her "infected" team members.


OK – that’s all I’ve got for now. I’ll try to check back periodically to comment on others’ posts (and to flesh out mine, if need be).


Witchy

[Stacey]

I agree that he never found Sun. But I thought that at the funeral parlor Ben asked Jack if “Bentham” had come to see him and Jack said, “Yes”. I thought another character had confirmed talking with him as well (maybe Hurley, but I can’t recall the exact scene)


I thought that when Ben told Sun that Jin wasn't dead, Sun said something like, "Why didn't Locke tell me he was alive?" and Ben responded maybe he didn't get around to it. Did that happen? Things were going to fast that maybe I imagined that.

[nemO821]

I think the reason that Locke and jin arent having nosebleeds and Sawyer is because they both found there constants. Richard was Lockes and Danielle was Jins. Just a guess.

[PaulFolk]

I thought that when Ben told Sun that Jin wasn't dead, Sun said something like, "Why didn't Locke tell me he was alive?" and Ben responded maybe he didn't get around to it. Did that happen? Things were going to fast that maybe I imagined that.
Yeah, Sun did say that. But that doesn't mean she ever talked to Locke, necessarily.

[Tank]

Another very good episode.

Are Faraday, Sawyer, and company now stuck in whatever time period they're in now since Locke turned the wheel again? Is that where the scene from the first episode of the season comes in? Maybe Daniel needs to get the wheel back off the axis until they get back to "current time" and stop it again.

[DuffMan]

First off, I am sooooo sooooo happy that there is an ending date in place for LOST. The show seems much more tightly developed and as a result, reveals are coming fast and furious. (I reallllly appreciated Mrs. Hawking being revealed as Dan’s mum; if no end date was in sight, that tidbit could’ve been dragged out 12, 15, 20+ episodes.)
Having an ending has definitely helped this show out alot, I agree that it was nice to get confirmation on Mrs. Hawking being revealed as Dan's mum. but I think it actually hurt it just a bit last night. The whole Roussaue scene felt a bit rushed to me, that is something I feel that warranted a whole episode (whether it be flashback or Jin observing the event through the time jump).



Also, Faraday’s emphatic statement to Sawyer about “you can’t change the past” seems to stem from (possibly) Charlotte’s death. See if I have this correct: Charlotte dies. Faraday travels back to Dharma days (we saw him in Dharma uniform during the attempted excavation of the donkey wheel). During his Dharma days jaunt, he tells a child named Charlotte to never return to the island if she leaves it at some point. Charlotte does not get this “memory” (much like Des’ memory of having to find Dan’s mother) until later in life……when it’s already too late. Dan was not able to change the past (and “save” Charlotte). Does that make sense? :scratchchinhmm:
Most of this makes sense, but doesn't Faraday tell Sawyer about not changing the past before she dies? I do sort of agree with the not getting the memory until later theory, as evidence of how Desmond got his memory later...It is definitely confusing



I’m wondering over the “temporal shift symptoms.” Charlotte was the first one to start with the headaches, memory loss, and nosebleeds correct? Correct

Then, Miles got a nosebleed (and headache)? Charlotte – by her own admission – grew up on the island. I suspect that Miles is the offspring of Dr. Chang/Wickman/Candle. If this is the case, Miles clearly spent time (as an infant) on the island.....like Charlotte.Perhaps we'll see a baby Miles on the Island at some point soon.

Juliette and Sawyer started with the nosebleeds in last night's ep. Juliette has been on the island (roughly) three years longer then Sawyer (but their symptoms started at the same time). I'm not sure on this, but I thought Juliette started to get nosebleeds an episode or two after they were on that kayak. When they were on the beach talking about Kate I think Sawyer says something about her nose bleeding.



Re: Charlotte’s pre-death ramblings -- Who do you think her Daddy is? :confused: I'm certain that lineage will come into play.
Richard?



Terry O’Quinn is amazing. The scene at the end with “Christian” was just incredible to me. :clap3:
I'm looking forward to when him and Jack meet up again. Those two are always great together.


Nice to see Smokey again (although Montaund losing his arm was pretty gruesome :puke:). I’m going with Smokey “infecting” the rest of the team when they tried to rescue Montaund. Danielle was not infected (because Jin convinced her to remain outside to keep her baby safe) and was forced to kill the rest of her "infected" team members.

The only question I have here is why would Smokey just not kill them? I can't recall any other time that smokey has just made people sick. Or could have smokey just took the appearance of Danielle's (husband, bf?) to try and trick her

[Baroquen131]

The only question I have here is why would Smokey just not kill them? I can't recall any other time that smokey has just made people sick. Or could have smokey just took the appearance of Danielle's (husband, bf?) to try and trick her

I could see smokey taking the appearance of the boyfriend, but then using an unknowingly unloaded rifle to try and shoot Danielle? That part doesn't seem to fit... didn't the (stupid) smoke monster take Eko's brother's form? But then changed back to smoke form and used Eko as a club? (Or did I misremember that... not exactly an interesting thread in any regard for me).

[PaulFolk]

I could see smokey taking the appearance of the boyfriend, but then using an unknowingly unloaded rifle to try and shoot Danielle? That part doesn't seem to fit... didn't the (stupid) smoke monster take Eko's brother's form? But then changed back to smoke form and used Eko as a club? (Or did I misremember that... not exactly an interesting thread in any regard for me).
You got it right...the smoke monster appeared as Eko's brother, then changed back into smoke when it killed Eko. I'm not really sure what the smoke monster is all about. Five seasons in, we still don't really know much about it.

[DuffMan]

You got it right...the smoke monster appeared as Eko's brother, then changed back into smoke when it killed Eko. I'm not really sure what the smoke monster is all about. Five seasons in, we still don't really know much about it.

I have a friend that's been insisting for five seasons that the smoke monster is nanobots. I don't think that's the answer though.

[Dwight Schrute]

That would seem to be a good guess, it seems to be that most people that know a thing or two about the island have been there before at some point.


I wouldn't be so sure that he's dead for good. The look on Terry O Quinn's face when Christian mentioned the word sacrifice was amazing, had to feel for Locke, tehre. I could see him coming back to life if/when they get everyone back to the Island. I'm a little confused though about what he says to the 6. Because it seems to me that he never sees/finds any of them. He didn't find Sun, because Ben had Jin's ring which he had given Locke.


I totally forgot that she could speak Korean, and definitely enjoyed that little scene with her Jin and Miles. Definitely a creepy scene when she told Jin to keep Sun away from the island because "This Place is Death"
Agreed on that time jump of Faraday telling a young Charlotte to stay away, this could be the same time when he goes downstairs and finds the wheel.


I'm sure the first four around somewhere, as for Rose and Bernard I think they have been frequent enough characters that we will see them again at some point. They seemed to have survived the flaming arrow attack.


Seeing the smoke monster was great! At first I didn't pick up on the sound, than once I did I knew Smokey would be showing up at some point. My only complaint about the whole Danielle scenes were I felt like it was kind of rushed (which is surprising considering Lost use to drag things out), but I guess you do get enough feel of how that could make her crazy. A question to anyone that can remember. After the plane crashed on the Island had Roussau ever come across Jin??


This is definitely possible, but to me Ben's chief concern is getting back to the island. By the way how great was the scene where he slams on the breaks in the van and scolds both Jack and Sun. The looks on their faces were great!


I'm not sure if Ben knew that Locke was supposed to turn the wheel, but Christian knew that and pointed that out to him. Christian told John that when Ben turned the wheel it "came off it's axis" a bit and that he had to push it alittle bit to fix it.

Locke is definitely coming back. If you noticed the carpet cleaning van with the name Canton Rainier on it, that is an anagram for REINCARNATION.

[Hawkigizer]

Are Faraday, Sawyer, and company now stuck in whatever time period they're in now since Locke turned the wheel again? Is that where the scene from the first episode of the season comes in? Maybe Daniel needs to get the wheel back off the axis until they get back to "current time" and stop it again.

I love this thought. I think you might be right about this...how come i can't think of these things???

[blakesta]

Locke is definitely coming back. If you noticed the carpet cleaning van with the name Canton Rainier on it, that is an anagram for REINCARNATION.

Very observative my friend.

Now, you could possibly be reading too much into it, but it does make some sense.

[Dwight Schrute]

Very observative my friend.

Now, you could possibly be reading too much into it, but it does make some sense.

They actually do this from time to time on the show. I started trying to look out for it more after last season when they did one of those "pop up video" style replays with the creators of the show explaining little nuggets here and there. The first time they showed the funeral parlor where Jack went and saw Locke's body, they explained how the name of the funeral home, "Hoffs Drawlar" was an anagram for "Flash Forward".