Trembley

[Hank Scorpio]

This is in regard to his general demeanor.

When he first assumed control of the team and for a long time afterwards, he was a take charge, no BS type of guy.

After watching this discussion (http://masnsports.com/2009/06/post-20.html) about his meeting with the players last Friday, I'm a little concerned that he's becoming a little too "Perlozzo-ey" in that he's becoming more of a shoulder to cry on than a manager.

That bothers me, and it leads me to believe that there might be some players that he's trying to win over a bit.

Has anyone else noticed a little softening in his pressers? It certainly seems to me that there has been a distinct change over the course of the last 3 or 4 weeks.

[Jdan14]

This is in regard to his general demeanor.

When he first assumed control of the team and for a long time afterwards, he was a take charge, no BS type of guy.

After watching this discussion (http://masnsports.com/2009/06/post-20.html) about his meeting with the players last Friday, I'm a little concerned that he's becoming a little too "Perlozzo-ey" in that he's becoming more of a shoulder to cry on than a manager.

That bothers me, and it leads me to believe that there might be some players that he's trying to win over a bit.

Has anyone else noticed a little softening in his pressers? It certainly seems to me that there has been a distinct change over the course of the last 3 or 4 weeks.


Yea I agree. I don't like the attitude this team has carried the past month or so. Well, probably the past 11 years but you get what I mean. They are never accused of hustling or resembling anything like the Twins. Roberts should be benched right away when he doesn't run out a ground ball but that doesn't happen. The O's veterans have given up playing already this year.

[alaniee]

I'd like our coach to have some real balls. DT seems to be very laid back lately. We're not the team you need to be laid back with!

[adamwolff11]

This is in regard to his general demeanor.

When he first assumed control of the team and for a long time afterwards, he was a take charge, no BS type of guy.

After watching this discussion (http://masnsports.com/2009/06/post-20.html) about his meeting with the players last Friday, I'm a little concerned that he's becoming a little too "Perlozzo-ey" in that he's becoming more of a shoulder to cry on than a manager.

That bothers me, and it leads me to believe that there might be some players that he's trying to win over a bit.

Has anyone else noticed a little softening in his pressers? It certainly seems to me that there has been a distinct change over the course of the last 3 or 4 weeks.


I could not agree more, and was thinking the same exact thing watching his post game press conference. We LOST this game, moreso than the L in the Loss Column will imply, and Trembley was almost making excuses. I don't want Ozzie Guillen, but come on, show some flare.

[LookitsPuck]

One thing is for sure, I never see any fire from him in regards to calls from umpires.

[Hank Scorpio]

He just seems like a less take charge guy to me lately, and that reminds me A LOT of Perlozzo once he started losing the clubhouse.

Once you're trying to win players over, you're in hot water IMO.

I'm not sure that's what he's trying to do, but this change in attitude certainly isn't a good sign.

[JTrea81]

He just seems like a less take charge guy to me lately, and that reminds me A LOT of Perlozzo once he started losing the clubhouse.

Once you're trying to win players over, you're in hot water IMO.

I'm not sure that's what he's trying to do, but this change in attitude certainly isn't a good sign.

He won't last the season IMO...

Performances like tonight after an off-day no less are unacceptable and you can bet MacPhail is starting to take notice.

[Hank Scorpio]

He won't last the season IMO...

Performances like tonight after an off-day no less are unacceptable and you can bet MacPhail is starting to take notice...

It's not the on field performance that is of concern to me really, just his demeanor in regards to his interaction with the players.

I haven't heard much criticism from him lately.

[LookitsPuck]

If it means anything, Hank, and I'm not saying anything again regarding "definites" since people get in a fizzy over things I say, but from what I've heard, a lot of players really haven't taken to Trembley. And this goes back to last season as well as in the off season. Now some of it has changed due to new faces in the club house (and a lot of old removed), but you can bet it's the case still. Hell, even elsid had some things to say about it.

[El Gordo]

It's not the on field performance that is of concern to me really, just his demeanor in regards to his interaction with the players.
I haven't heard much criticism from him lately.I'm curious as to how you determine this. Is this from his attitude in his pressers, or what you observe on TV when they show shots of the dugout. I haven't been watching the games lately. Was there a shot of someone crying on his shoulder?

[threedaysrest]

Might DT have some idea about his contract status that has facilitated this change in demeanor? :scratchchinhmm:

If DT is dismissed, who replaces him? Few people want to try to answer this question. :laughlol:

[Hank Scorpio]

I'm curious as to how you determine this. Is this from his attitude in his pressers, or what you observe on TV when they show shots of the dugout. I haven't been watching the games lately. Was there a shot of someone crying on his shoulder?

Watch the discussion with Roch that I posted.

That's the gist.

[jets4ever]

It seems almost certain that we will have a new manager next season. Who that will be is anybody's guess? :scratchchinhmm:

[Hank Scorpio]

I am in no way advocating the dismissal of Trembley, by the way.

That is not the intent of this thread.

[ADZ23]

It's not the on field performance that is of concern to me really, just his demeanor in regards to his interaction with the players.

I haven't heard much criticism from him lately.

It could just simply be that he's an in-house criticizer, and maintains a different face for the rest of us. There really is no point sharing particularly negative viewpoints on players with the media.

[Lucky Jim]

I am in no way advocating the dismissal of Trembley, by the way.

That is not the intent of this thread.

You should've known better.

You've got Trea here now, and Puck throwing random rumors around.

[Sports Guy]

One thing you guys need to remember about Hank is that he works for the Ravens on the sidelines....He sees(and hears about) pro athlete/coach interaction a lot.

I don't think this is something he is pulling out of his butt to throw DT under the bus or anything...He is bringing this up based on what he sees and comparing it to what he has seen in football.

Its valid.

One thing I will say is this....Between what Hank is seeing, what El Sid has said and the whole idea of DT not being a former player, I think we could be seeing Trembley starting to lose some players....Now, that doesn't mean he can't get them back but things aren't looking good for DT.

I must say, at this point, i have serious doubts about DT being back next year.

[jets4ever]

I am in no way advocating the dismissal of Trembley, by the way.

That is not the intent of this thread.

Maybe not.

But, this team has been put together with 2010 or 2011 in mind for some time now. So, I would think that AM would also like to have a manager in place that will have this team ready to play at a competitive level at the same time.

But, with the way this team is playing right now, the timetable on a managerial decision may have been moved up a bit.

[clapdiddy]

I like Trembley, but I think this team needs a leader. It doesn't appear that any of the guys on this team are cut out to be that guy.

If you don't have it from the manager, and you don't have it from players, then you have a problem. I thought Zaun could be that guy, but he's never really won anywhere and I think that aspect of leadership is very important.

I'm not sure if a Leyland or LaRussa would make a difference for this team, but I'd like to think that their gravitas would be appreciated on this team. I'm not advocating either of those guys for the job, either. I just think this team is like a rudderless ship. No direction.

They've got a good architect in MacPhail, but that can only produce the people in the clubhouse. They need someone who has been a winner and can spread that mentality through the team.

[LookitsPuck]

Trembley shuffled the lineup? For how long? And how much?

[CountIsFull]

Personally, I like Trembley and I thought the way he handled the slump --with a positive attitude, encouragement of the batters and an emphasis on patience-- was the best approach.

However, his frequent use of "it's just part of the game" is growing old.

In tonight's presser he stated, “We gave them too many outs, and they capitalized on them. I just look at that as part of the game.”

There's never an excuse for 3 costly run-producing errors and that many mistakes aren't part of the game! An error every once in awhile is understandable and is part of the game, but not3 in one game.

[fansince71]

Its been said that teams tend to take on the personality of the Manager. Could it be that DT has taken on the personality of his players?

[CountIsFull]

Personally, I like Trembley and I thought the way he handled the slump --with a positive attitude, encouragement of the batters and an emphasis on patience-- was the best approach.

However, his frequent use of "it's just part of the game" is growing old.

In tonight's presser he stated, “We gave them too many outs, and they capitalized on them. I just look at that as part of the game.”

There's never an excuse for 3 costly run-producing errors and that many mistakes aren't part of the game! An error every once in awhile is understandable and is part of the game, but not3 in one game.

Oh, GoshD*mmit! Here he goes again!

I just read the presser (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090616&content_id=5363584&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal&partnerId=rss_bal) from Trembley regarding Mora''s argument with the 1st Base umpire: "I thought the ball hit the bat, but Jeff said he thought he swung, and then it hit the bat. So I said we can agree to disagree," said Trembley. "I'm not surprised it gets animated. Those things are just part of the game. But yeah, I thought it was important that early in the game to do whatever we could to keep Melvin in the game."

DT, stick up for your player, bro! Give the umpire a ration of crap for heaven's sake! Don't talk to the ump like you're talking to your wife, "I'm sorry, baby. We can agree to disagree." Geez!

And, PLEASE, stop covering up things by saying, "It's just part of the game.":cussing:

[Anonymous]

This is in regard to his general demeanor.

When he first assumed control of the team and for a long time afterwards, he was a take charge, no BS type of guy.

After watching this discussion (http://masnsports.com/2009/06/post-20.html) about his meeting with the players last Friday, I'm a little concerned that he's becoming a little too "Perlozzo-ey" in that he's becoming more of a shoulder to cry on than a manager.

That bothers me, and it leads me to believe that there might be some players that he's trying to win over a bit.

Has anyone else noticed a little softening in his pressers? It certainly seems to me that there has been a distinct change over the course of the last 3 or 4 weeks.I agree that he's changed in this manner in his pressers. I disagree with the idea that this is a bad thing. We don't know how he's dealing with the players on the inside (although the elsid commentary leaves me with some real concern on that score). But I think there's zero positive value, other than for fan amusement, and potentially considerable harm, in airing the dirty laundry in public.

[mikezpen]

I think Trembley was ok while the team is being built.He knows many of the players from his minor league days and can relate to them.

But for the next phase-hopefully the competitive phase, I think they need another manager-one from outside the system-one who is not connected to this organization's losing and won't stand for it.

[El Gordo]

Watch the discussion with Roch that I posted.

That's the gist.
I watched it and I really didn't find much to disagree with in terms of what he said. Unless you believe this team is a bunch aof lazy slackers, I don't see why you would want to peal the paint of the walls ala Pinela. And by the way how well is that working for Lou in Chicago. Is his team under performing or what? Are the O's supposed to be in contention this year? If that is the expectation then they are indeed under performing and maybe someone should be reading them the riot act. But my impression was that this is a team in transition with young guys coming up and old guys on their way out. So I would think that the approach DT is talking about makes a lot of sense. Nick, for example has been in a long slump. Should DT have critcized him in the press, benched him and yelled at him for being lazy, in order to get him out of his funk? Is that the kind of behavior people want? I think what is really going on here is that people can't deal with the eratic patterns of a team in transition, where there is at once great promise and great frustration. So what they want is to see he manager act out their anger and frustration with angry displays toward umpires and players, that in some way exoresses their own anger and disappointment. But this is not the best way to build a team for the future IMO. Now Sports God has suggested that because you work in some capacity with the Ravens, you have some special knowledge, and hear of things. Is that indeed the case and are you hearng things to the effect that DT is losing the clubhouse, or are you basing your opinions entirely on the interview wit Roch?

[24fps]

There are many things that keep me coming back to the OH, not the least of which is that on any given night I can come across a thread where Cicero is aptly quoted as olehippi did earlier today in a different thread.

This thread? When it comes to the fate of princes no less than Shakespeare will do, and who better than Iago to comment on the cry of every baseball manager?

Iago:

"How poor are they that have not patience!
What wound did ever heal but by degrees?
Thou know'st we work by wit, and not by witchcraft;
And wit depends on dilatory time."

Othello (II, iii, 376-379)


I could find nothing in Othello directly addressing DT's propensity to batting Mora 5th although maybe I should have checked Henry VIII. That's always my first choice when I think about PA.

Spells were known to be cast in Shakespeare's time as he was so fond of documenting, so perhaps this is the explanation for Trembley's recent change in demeanor.

After all, it couldn't be our own impatience that's the villain here. Could it?

[El Gordo]

There are many things that keep me coming back to the OH, not the least of which is that on any given night I can come across a thread where Cicero is aptly quoted as 1970 did earlier today in a different thread.

This thread? When it comes to the fate of princes no less than Shakespeare will do, and who better than Iago to comment on the cry of every baseball manager?

Iago:

"How poor are they that have not patience!
What wound did ever heal but by degrees?
Thou know'st we work by wit, and not by witchcraft;
And wit depends on dilatory time."

Othello (II, iii, 376-379)


I could find nothing in Othello directly addressing DT's propensity to batting Mora 5th although maybe I should have checked Henry VIII. That's always my first choice when I think about PA.

Spells were known to be cast in Shakespeare's time as he was so fond of documenting, so perhaps this is the explanation for Trembley's recent change in demeanor.

After all, it couldn't be our own impatience that's the villain here. Could it? Time hath, my lord, a wallet at his back,
Wherein he puts alms for oblivion,
A great-sized monster of ingratitudes:
Those scraps are good deeds past; which are devour'd
As fast as they are made, forgot as soon
As done...
For time is like a fashionable host
That slightly shakes his parting guest by the hand,
And with his arms outstretch'd, as he would fly,
Grasps in the comer: welcome ever smiles,
And farewell goes out sighing.

[Pat Kelly]

I like Trembley, but I think this team needs a leader. It doesn't appear that any of the guys on this team are cut out to be that guy.

If you don't have it from the manager, and you don't have it from players, then you have a problem. I thought Zaun could be that guy, but he's never really won anywhere and I think that aspect of leadership is very important.

I'm not sure if a Leyland or LaRussa would make a difference for this team, but I'd like to think that their gravitas would be appreciated on this team. I'm not advocating either of those guys for the job, either. I just think this team is like a rudderless ship. No direction.

They've got a good architect in MacPhail, but that can only produce the people in the clubhouse. They need someone who has been a winner and can spread that mentality through the team.

Agree 100%. Players most likely to assume this role, AJ and MW in 2010 along with some of the young pitchers - BB, Jake Arrieta? Be good to add at least one guy who's won, who can play (1B or 3B?) and brings some leadership qualities.

Having said that most winning teams have strong leadership from the manager who brings a level of urgency and respect - Francona, Scioscia , Torre, Cox, La Russa, Leyland, Maddon, Macha, Guillen, C Manuel, (Girardi and J Manuel are not quite there yet but will be replaced if they don't). Last time the O's won we had had Davey Johnson and before that Earl Weaver (apologies to Joe Altobelli but 1983 was Earl's team)...and that wasn't by accident. DT is ok for now but IMO he is not the one to guide the team to the promised land.

Not to pour more oil on the fire but here is an interesting ranking from the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2009/05/31/the_managerial_ranks/) which seems a bit subjective (despite the supposed methods) and with plenty to debate. DT does not fare well.

[Pat Kelly]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090616&content_id=5358216&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Tx Oriole]

One thing you guys need to remember about Hank is that he works for the Ravens on the sidelines....He sees(and hears about) pro athlete/coach interaction a lot.

I don't think this is something he is pulling out of his butt to throw DT under the bus or anything...He is bringing this up based on what he sees and comparing it to what he has seen in football.

Its valid.

One thing I will say is this....Between what Hank is seeing, what El Sid has said and the whole idea of DT not being a former player, I think we could be seeing Trembley starting to lose some players....Now, that doesn't mean he can't get them back but things aren't looking good for DT.

I must say, at this point, i have serious doubts about DT being back next year.

It may be, but golly I hate for the team to ahve to go though another merry go round of managers.

[Tx Oriole]

Personally, I like Trembley and I thought the way he handled the slump --with a positive attitude, encouragement of the batters and an emphasis on patience-- was the best approach.

However, his frequent use of "it's just part of the game" is growing old.

In tonight's presser he stated, “We gave them too many outs, and they capitalized on them. I just look at that as part of the game.”

There's never an excuse for 3 costly run-producing errors and that many mistakes aren't part of the game! An error every once in awhile is understandable and is part of the game, but not3 in one game.

But what can he say? There were three errors. Errors are going to happen. What good would it have done to blow their butts out of the water in meeting with the press? None, I would imagine DT made a point to say what needed to be said behind closed doors. IMO

[RHall31]

This is in regard to his general demeanor.

When he first assumed control of the team and for a long time afterwards, he was a take charge, no BS type of guy.

After watching this discussion (http://masnsports.com/2009/06/post-20.html) about his meeting with the players last Friday, I'm a little concerned that he's becoming a little too "Perlozzo-ey" in that he's becoming more of a shoulder to cry on than a manager.

That bothers me, and it leads me to believe that there might be some players that he's trying to win over a bit.
Has anyone else noticed a little softening in his pressers? It certainly seems to me that there has been a distinct change over the course of the last 3 or 4 weeks.

I don't think he won over anybody in the dugout with the way he handled
the Mora foul ball "disagreement". Those umps were crowding Mora pretty
good.

[The Wedge]

I don't think he won over anybody in the dugout with the way he handled
the Mora foul ball "disagreement". Those umps were crowding Mora pretty
good.

He managed to keep Mora from getting tossed, and considering how hellbent Melvin seemed to want to get tossed, that's pretty impressive. I thought for sure he'd get the hook when he whipped around Trembley to go back for more the second time.

And Trembley has made it pretty clear before that he doesn't feel arguing minutiae with umpires is a productive thing. He's gotten up in umpires grills before, its not like he's a complete pushover. He simply prescribes to the philosophy that umpires don't try harder for you when you piss them off. And I thought last night he was more animated than he usually is when discussing calls. He usually looks like they're discussing the weather, last night he was gesticulating and talking forcibly. The only thing I thought was bad was that he was letting Mora argue with different umpires while he argued with one. But to be fair, Mora was going to be running his mouth no matter what Trembley did. Even if Trembley would have pulled a Pepper Leach and carried him off the field.

[RHall31]

He managed to keep Mora from getting tossed, and considering how hellbent Melvin seemed to want to get tossed, that's pretty impressive. I thought for sure he'd get the hook when he whipped around Trembley to go back for more the second time.

And Trembley has made it pretty clear before that he doesn't feel arguing minutiae with umpires is a productive thing. He's gotten up in umpires grills before, its not like he's a complete pushover. He simply prescribes to the philosophy that umpires don't try harder for you when you piss them off. And I thought last night he was more animated than he usually is when discussing calls. He usually looks like they're discussing the weather, last night he was gesticulating and talking forcibly. The only thing I thought was bad was that he was letting Mora argue with different umpires while he argued with one. But to be fair, Mora was going to be running his mouth no matter what Trembley did. Even if Trembley would have pulled a Pepper Leach and carried him off the field.

Difference in point of view I guess. I thought the umps, especially the 3rd base ump, kept crowding Mora. Like he was waiting for Mora to say the wrong
thing and toss him. There's really no reason for that many umps to be in on
that "forcible discussion". I thought Mora was clearly upset with the 3rd base
ump sticking his nose in it and maybe Trembley could have told him to take
his ass back up the line where it belonged. I think Mora and maybe the other players may have really respected that approach towards that ump.

[osfan83]

I don't think DT will be here next year. Our next manager needs to stress fundementals (and really do something about it) and hold people accountable. We need a manager that does not accept losing, but moreso does not accept the team beating its self. Sure slumps happen and good teams havethe occasional bad game, but this team is one of the worst fielding teams in the league. We beat ourselves repeatedly on the basepaths, and routinly make bad decisions in the field.

I look at our starting line up and on paper it seams like we have some talent,
Roberts, Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Wieters, Scott and Huff. But these guys are playing like the worst team in baseball (or darn close) so are we overrating these guys? Are Nick and Jones average at best? Is Roberts an below average second baseman? I understand we have many young players, and I don't expect to win a division anytime in the next 2 or 3 years, but don't we have enough talent now to be an average team?

[Hank Scorpio]

I watched it and I really didn't find much to disagree with in terms of what he said. Unless you believe this team is a bunch aof lazy slackers, I don't see why you would want to peal the paint of the walls ala Pinela. And by the way how well is that working for Lou in Chicago. Is his team under performing or what? Are the O's supposed to be in contention this year? If that is the expectation then they are indeed under performing and maybe someone should be reading them the riot act. But my impression was that this is a team in transition with young guys coming up and old guys on their way out. So I would think that the approach DT is talking about makes a lot of sense. Nick, for example has been in a long slump. Should DT have critcized him in the press, benched him and yelled at him for being lazy, in order to get him out of his funk? Is that the kind of behavior people want? I think what is really going on here is that people can't deal with the eratic patterns of a team in transition, where there is at once great promise and great frustration. So what they want is to see he manager act out their anger and frustration with angry displays toward umpires and players, that in some way exoresses their own anger and disappointment. But this is not the best way to build a team for the future IMO. Now Sports God has suggested that because you work in some capacity with the Ravens, you have some special knowledge, and hear of things. Is that indeed the case and are you hearng things to the effect that DT is losing the clubhouse, or are you basing your opinions entirely on the interview wit Roch?

I'm not saying that I necessarily want him to do things a certain way, just noticing a change in the way he talks about his team.

Last year and the prior half year it was all about "accountability" and Trembley just seemed like more of a pseudo-disciplinarian (I use "disciplinarian" lightly considering this is baseball.)

The further into this mess we get, he just seems to be becoming a little more touchy-feely with his players.

And that's different from the Trembley we used to see.

And no, I have zero inside information about the Orioles. It's just an observation.

[Satyr3206]

My new nickname for Trembley is Dr. Phil. He's coddling the players and rationalizing everything away so they aren't psychologically scarred I guess. That Mora call last night was just wrong and Dr. Phil didn't put up much of an argument.

I hear Bobby Valentine might be available next year.

[Tony-OH]

You guys are too funny.....

This organizations has been stable since MacPhail took over and there is no indications other than the wild speculations from a few posters around here that would suggest Trembley's job is in any type of jeopardy.

By the way, Trembley does not like to lose. In fact, he hates it. If you wonder why his demeanor has not been great on the post game interviews it's because HE HATES TO LOSE and the Orioles have been doing a lot of it lately.

It's a young team that will get better over the next few years. Snyder will be here and will help out the lineup. Arrieta, Matusz and Tillman will be in the rotation at some point next year and possibly even this year at some point. Wieters is going to hit and Markakis is going to get out of this slump.

I think a few of you need to realize this is not a good team right now, but it will be in a year or two. We all knew this coming into the season but people are suddenly looking for someone to blame. I understand when teams lose the managers usually take the fall, but in this case, the organization is all about stability and although the wins and losses are not improving, the entire organization is heading in the right direction and Trembley is part of that.

[Fairfax Bird]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090616&content_id=5358216&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Yep, leadership ... weren't the Mets the team that tanked the last two years. Earlier in the year I remember the Mets struggling and the BBTN guys saying that there is a void of leadership on the club. They were actually debating who the leader on the team was.

We certainly need a vocal leader. You have to hope that Jones is that guy. He seems to have a good voice, is it a voice of leadership.

[Hank Scorpio]

You guys are too funny.....

This organizations has been stable since MacPahil took over and there is no indications other than the wild speculations from a few posters around here that would suggest Trembley's job is in any type of jeopardy.

By the way, Trembley does not like to lose. In fact, he hates it. If you wonder why his demeanor has not been great on the post game interviews it's because HE HATES TO LOSE and the Orioles have been doing a lot of lately.

It's a young team that will get better over the next few years. Snyder will be here and will help out the lineup. Arrieta, Matusz and Tillman will be in the rotation at some point next year and possibly even this year at some point. Wieters is going to hit and Markakis is going to get out of this slump.

I think a few of you need to realize this is not a good team right now, but it will be in a year or two. We all knew this coming into the season but people are suddenly looking for someone to blame. I understand when teams lose the managers usually take the fall, but in this case, the organization is all about stability and although the wins and losses are not improving, the entire organization is heading in the right direction and Trembley is part of that.

For the record, the OP was not to insinuate that Trembley's job is in jeopardy or that it should be.

Just pointing out that I have noticed a change in Trembley, and I wanted to see if anyone else has noticed it. Didn't mean to incite a torches & pitchforks thing. :o

[Tony-OH]

For the record, the OP was not to insinuate that Trembley's job is in jeopardy or that it should be.

Just pointing out that I have noticed a change in Trembley, and I wanted to see if anyone else has noticed it. Didn't mean to incite a torches & pitchforks thing. :o


That really wasn't directed at you Hank. There's a mob mentality around here of late directed at Trembley and it's really sad in my opinion because it's misguided. Hell, some people are actually saying that Trembley needs to stress fundamentals like he's somehow doesn't stress them or doesn't address these errors. Trembley is not the kind of guy who is going to slam his players in the media but he doesn't make excuses for them either. The team had a bad game which followed up two pretty good games.

This is not football yet a lot of people around here act as if it were. This is a 162 game marathon and people need to learn how to relax after the bad ones.

[Hank Scorpio]

That really wasn't directed at you Hank. There's a mob mentality around here of late directed at Trembley and it's really sad in my opinion because it's misguided. Hell, some people are actually saying that Trembley needs to stress fundamentals like he's somehow doesn't stress them or doesn't address these errors. Trembley is not the kind of guy who is going to slam his players in the media but he doesn't make excuses for them either. The team had a bad game which followed up two pretty good games.

This is not football yet a lot of people around here act as if it were. This is a 162 game marathon and people need to learn how to relax after the bad ones.

10-4, Tony.

I like Trembley and I hope that this team can pull it together for him (and us, and themselves, and the rest of the fan base.)

Are the guys still conducting infield practice once a series?

[bigbird]

That really wasn't directed at you Hank. There's a mob mentality around here of late directed at Trembley and it's really sad in my opinion because it's misguided. Hell, some people are actually saying that Trembley needs to stress fundamentals like he's somehow doesn't stress them or doesn't address these errors. Tremebley is not the kind of guy who is going to slam his players in the media but he doesn't make excuses for them either. The team had a bad game which followed up two pretty good games.

This is not football yet a lot of people around here act as if it were. This is a 162 game marathon and people need to learn how to relax after the bad ones.

Tony, what is your thoughts on DT not being AMs first choice when he pursued Giradi? Your opinion.... what quality does DT bring to the table and do you think he is the quality of manager to help this organization contend?

[Tony-OH]

10-4, Tony.

I like Trembley and I hope that this team can pull it together for him (and us, and themselves, and the rest of the fan base.)

Are the guys still conducting infield practice once a series?

I'll have to check but I don't think they are doing this anymore.

[Satyr3206]

I want to clarify a few points. I don't know if Trembley is going to be fired, I don't work in the front office. However, it is my opinion that he is not the man for the job and I'll list some of the reasons.

A few years ago when he gave Mora a day off with no notice, Mora pitched a fit. Ever since then he has been giving them advanced notice of when they get a day off without regard to changing circumstances, ie, Wigginton hitting two homers the other day. Wiggy should have been in the lineup the next day. My point here is that the manager manages and the players play. I don't see the need for giving players notice for when they are getting a day off.

Where are the fundamentals? Coming into the season we thought the Orioles was going to be a good defensive team, at this point they're not and the base running is horrendous. These two areas are the manager and the coaches responsibility.

Why is Wieters only playing half the time? It's been stated numerous times that when he came up he was a full time catcher and DHing sometimes. So far he has played in about half the games over the last week and a half. I think this is a case of Trembley defering to the vets.

Why is Mora still in the five hole? Again another case of Trembley defering to the vets even though it is hurting the team. Mora has been a productive player in the past, but at this point in time somebody else needs to be batting in the five hole.

Leadership. This comes in many forms, but the one area that I see Trembley lacking in is that he doesn't stand up for his players against the Umps. That call last night with Mora was wrong. Flat out wrong, against the rule book wrong. And this is just the latest case. He seemed more interested in keeping Mora in the game than with telling the Umpire he was wrong.

Do I think Trembley is a decent guy? Yes, I do. I just don't think he is the right manager for this team. He lacks fire. Has a hard time managing his roster and bullpen. And I think he's defering to the veterans at the expense of the youngsters and the young guys are the ones we are going to need in 2010 and 11 when we're supposed to start contending.

I have no doubt that Trembley takes losing hard, but he brings some of this on himself by the way he manages the games and the players. Just my opinion.

[Singleton]

You guys are too funny.....

This organizations has been stable since MacPhail took over and there is no indications other than the wild speculations from a few posters around here that would suggest Trembley's job is in any type of jeopardy.

By the way, Trembley does not like to lose. In fact, he hates it. If you wonder why his demeanor has not been great on the post game interviews it's because HE HATES TO LOSE and the Orioles have been doing a lot of it lately.

It's a young team that will get better over the next few years. Snyder will be here and will help out the lineup. Arrieta, Matusz and Tillman will be in the rotation at some point next year and possibly even this year at some point. Wieters is going to hit and Markakis is going to get out of this slump.

I think a few of you need to realize this is not a good team right now, but it will be in a year or two. We all knew this coming into the season but people are suddenly looking for someone to blame. I understand when teams lose the managers usually take the fall, but in this case, the organization is all about stability and although the wins and losses are not improving, the entire organization is heading in the right direction and Trembley is part of that.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, if folks will step off the ledge for just a sec and be honest, I think they should see that this season is actually going amazingly well for the organization.

The major league team is not good. What did you expect? It really doesn't matter (or shouldn't) if this team wins 75 or 65 games. People should stop focusing on the Eaton's, Hendrickson's, Walkers, etc. Their success (or lack thereof) doesn't matter to the future of this team in any significant way.

This season is all about the development of our young players and that has gone amazingly well. A. Jones has approached star status. Bergeson has shown he belongs. Reimold has surpassed anyone's expectatations. Weiters is getting his feet wet.

Down on the farm the big three have stayed dominant while advancing. Many take this for granted but this is HUGE. Snyder has stepped up his game in a big way and looks poised to be our solution at first. We didn't know this before. Patton has returned strong and healthy from injury (last night's start notwithstanding). Britton continues to develop. Avery shows promise and if we didn't have this guy named Weiters, folks would be going bonkers over C. Joseph. There have been very, very few disappointments with our young players and the few there are have been greatly overshadowed by our successes.

While I admit I have had some frustration with the way DT has handled the pen, the most important thing is the way he has worked with young players and he has done very well in that regard.

I may be in the minority but no matter what their mlb record, I'm really looking forward to continuing to track our young guys this summer.

[osfan83]

That really wasn't directed at you Hank. There's a mob mentality around here of late directed at Trembley and it's really sad in my opinion because it's misguided. Hell, some people are actually saying that Trembley needs to stress fundamentals like he's somehow doesn't stress them or doesn't address these errors. Trembley is not the kind of guy who is going to slam his players in the media but he doesn't make excuses for them either. The team had a bad game which followed up two pretty good games.

This is not football yet a lot of people around here act as if it were. This is a 162 game marathon and people need to learn how to relax after the bad ones.

I know he talks about fundamentals a lot...but his teams continue to be one of the worst fielding teams in the league during his tenure.

[SilentJames]

I know he talks about fundamentals a lot...but his teams continue to be one of the worst fielding teams in the league during his tenure.

Look at the short stops he had last year? The Orioles, after a slow start have been VERY solid defensively before last night.

You know, as soon as B-Rob botched that ball, I knew this would happen.

[osfan83]

I couldn't agree more. In fact, if folks will step off the ledge for just a sec and be honest, I think they should see that this season is actually going amazingly well for the organization.

The major league team is not good. What did you expect? It really doesn't matter (or shouldn't) if this team wins 75 or 65 games. People should stop focusing on the Eaton's, Hendrickson's, Walkers, etc. Their success (or lack thereof) doesn't matter to the future of this team in any significant way.This season is all about the development of our young players and that has gone amazingly well. A. Jones has approached star status. Bergeson has shown he belongs. Reimold has surpassed anyone's expectatations. Weiters is getting his feet wet.

Down on the farm the big three have stayed dominant while advancing. Many take this for granted but this is HUGE. Snyder has stepped up his game in a big way and looks poised to be our solution at first. We didn't know this before. Patton has returned strong and healthy from injury (last night's start notwithstanding). Britton continues to develop. Avery shows promise and if we didn't have this guy named Weiters, folks would be going bonkers over C. Joseph. There have been very, very few disappointments with our young players and the few there are have been greatly overshadowed by our successes.

While I admit I have had some frustration with the way DT has handled the pen, the most important thing is the way he has worked with young players and he has done very well in that regard.

I may be in the minority but no matter what their mlb record, I'm really looking forward to continuing to track our young guys this summer.

Eaton and Walker are no longer on the team, and Hendrickson is in the pen where he belongs. I don't think anyone is focusing on those players at this point.

[osfan83]

Look at the short stops he had last year? The Orioles, after a slow start have been VERY solid defensively before last night.

You know, as soon as B-Rob botched that ball, I knew this would happen.

You may be right...where do they currently rank in fielding in the AL?

[Hank Scorpio]

You may be right...where do they currently rank in fielding in the AL?

In terms of errors they've made the 12th most in the league.

Which isn't egregious, really.

BASERUNNING, on the other hand....

[RShack]

I think what is really going on here is that people can't deal with the eratic patterns of a team in transition, where there is at once great promise and great frustration. So what they want is to see he manager act out their anger and frustration with angry displays toward umpires and players, that in some way exoresses their own anger and disappointment.
This is exactly right. The people who are stirring up BS about DT getting fired mainly wanna see him act out their own anger on TV. The folks who think he's gonna get canned any time soon are evidently so busy with their own emotions that they've failed to notice how the franchise is being fixed. There is zero reason to expect that AM is gonna do something knee-jerk like that, and tons of reason to expect he won't.

If some people would spend less time thinking with their hormones, and more time just paying attention to the big picture of the franchise's rapid progress, there would be way fewer stupid posts around here. We're just a couple days away from AM's 2nd anniversary on the job, and the difference in this franchise in that short time is night and day. AM took on a 5-year job, and has it about 75% or 80% done after a measly 2 years. This is true about about both the organization's talent and the organization's professional atmosphere, and DT has been an important part of that.

The difference between what some posters want and what AM is gonna do is that AM thinks with his head, not with his hormones.

[Tony-OH]

I know he talks about fundamentals a lot...but his teams continue to be one of the worst fielding teams in the league during his tenure.

Give me examples please of these lack of fundamentals. If you are talking base running, there's nothing Trembley really can do about that. The players he has are the players he has. The ones that make dump base running mistakes are the guys who have ALWAYS made dumb base running mistakes for the most part. Some guys have great base running instincts and some don't. There is very little a major league manager can do about this other than replace said runner late in games if the run could mean the difference in a game, and then he needs to have guys who can run on his bench.

Are players overthrowing cut off men? Are infielders not lining up their cutoffs correctly? Are infielders not covering bases on steals? I hear you say the Orioles lack fundamentals yet I don't see anything that stands out as an undisciplined team when I watch them.

They make mistakes, mental and physical like every other team, but I do not see a problem here. What am I missing?

[PaulFolk]

I just read the presser (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090616&content_id=5363584&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal&partnerId=rss_bal) from Trembley regarding Mora''s argument with the 1st Base umpire: "I thought the ball hit the bat, but Jeff said he thought he swung, and then it hit the bat. So I said we can agree to disagree," said Trembley. "I'm not surprised it gets animated. Those things are just part of the game. But yeah, I thought it was important that early in the game to do whatever we could to keep Melvin in the game."

DT, stick up for your player, bro! Give the umpire a ration of crap for heaven's sake! Don't talk to the ump like you're talking to your wife, "I'm sorry, baby. We can agree to disagree." Geez!
Do you really think that's what Trembley actually said to the umpires? That was just the cleaned-up version he gave to the media. He's not going to recount, word-for-word, the argument he had with the ump. But if you watched the game, you saw that Trembley got in the umps' faces-- multiple umps, actually-- for about 5 minutes. You can bet that he spoke his mind instead of just saying "Let's agree to disagree."

I think you missed the joke there. In his presser, Trembley was giving a watered-down account of his argument, perhaps to avoid saying something that would earn him a fine from the MLB.

[DrungoHazewood]

Give me examples please of these lack of fundamentals. If you are talking base running, there's nothing Trembley really can do about that. The players he has are the players he has. The ones that make dump base running mistakes are the guys who have ALWAYS made dumb base running mistakes for the most part. Some guys have great base running instincts and some don't. There is very little a major league manager can do about this other than replace said runner late in games if the run could mean the difference in a game, and then he needs to have guys who can run on his bench.

Are players overthrowing cut off men? Are infielders not lining up their cutoffs correctly? Are infielders not covering bases on steals? I hear you say the Orioles lack fundamentals yet I don't see anything that stands out as an undisciplined team when I watch them.

They make mistakes, mental and physical like every other team, but I do not see a problem here. What am I missing?

I think calling out Trembley for fundamentals is misguided and silly. Most of that stuff he has little or no control over. You don't learn fundamentals in the majors any more than you learn to fly an airplane after United hires you.

But I think he does deserve a little bit of blame for the baserunning. The O's are easily last in MLB in BP's equivalent baserunning runs (which tallies up the average run values of all of the things that happen on the bases). The O's are at -15, four runs worse than any other MLB team, and 25 runs worse than the league-leading Rays (or about two and a half wins). Trembley does talk quite a bit about staying very aggressive, and in my opinion he doesn't realize/grasp/care about (and I don't know which it is) the fact that this aggressiveness is costing a lot of runs.

[DrungoHazewood]

Oh, and I complain about his use of the bullpen, but his three best relievers are also the three highest on the team in leverage index (Sherrill, Johnson, Baez). His pen use isn't optimized, but it's certainly better now that Ray and Walker are gone, and it could be much worse.

[PaulFolk]

A few years ago when he gave Mora a day off with no notice, Mora pitched a fit. Ever since then he has been giving them advanced notice of when they get a day off without regard to changing circumstances, ie, Wigginton hitting two homers the other day. Wiggy should have been in the lineup the next day. My point here is that the manager manages and the players play. I don't see the need for giving players notice for when they are getting a day off.
That was Perlozzo, not Trembley.


Why is Wieters only playing half the time? It's been stated numerous times that when he came up he was a full time catcher and DHing sometimes. So far he has played in about half the games over the last week and a half. I think this is a case of Trembley defering to the vets.
Wieters has started 13 of the Orioles' 16 games since he came up. That's not "half" by any accepted definition.


Leadership. This comes in many forms, but the one area that I see Trembley lacking in is that he doesn't stand up for his players against the Umps. That call last night with Mora was wrong. Flat out wrong, against the rule book wrong. And this is just the latest case. He seemed more interested in keeping Mora in the game than with telling the Umpire he was wrong.
He seemed interested in both, actually. At one point he was actually holding Mora back from an umpire while simultaneously arguing with a different umpire. As I posted earlier, Trembley was on the field for a good 5 minutes, getting in the face of multiple umpires to argue his case, and he managed to save Mora from ejection. I thought he multi-tasked pretty well. :D

[RHall31]

Give me examples please of these lack of fundamentals. If you are talking base running, there's nothing Trembley really can do about that. The players he has are the players he has. The ones that make dump base running mistakes are the guys who have ALWAYS made dumb base running mistakes for the most part. Some guys have great base running instincts and some don't. There is very little a major league manager can do about this other than replace said runner late in games if the run could mean the difference in a game, and then he needs to have guys who can run on his bench.

Are players overthrowing cut off men? Are infielders not lining up their cutoffs correctly? Are infielders not covering bases on steals? I hear you say the Orioles lack fundamentals yet I don't see anything that stands out as an undisciplined team when I watch them.

They make mistakes, mental and physical like every other team, but I do not see a problem here. What am I missing?

Well, since you asked. Mora may have been off in his alignment on Reimold's
throw. The ball went right over his head and was way off line.

[RHall31]

I think calling out Trembley for fundamentals is misguided and silly. Most of that stuff he has little or no control over. You don't learn fundamentals in the majors any more than you learn to fly an airplane after United hires you.

But I think he does deserve a little bit of blame for the baserunning. The O's are easily last in MLB in BP's equivalent baserunning runs (which tallies up the average run values of all of the things that happen on the bases). The O's are at -15, four runs worse than any other MLB team, and 25 runs worse than the league-leading Rays (or about two and a half wins). Trembley does talk quite a bit about staying very aggressive, and in my opinion he doesn't realize/grasp/care about (and I don't know which it is) the fact that this aggressiveness is costing a lot of runs.

Then why has DT been so adamant about bringing up how he is going to stress fundamentals? If he has no control over his teams fundamental play,
it's silly for him to keep talking about it.

[Dipper9]

You guys are too funny.....

This organizations has been stable since MacPhail took over and there is no indications other than the wild speculations from a few posters around here that would suggest Trembley's job is in any type of jeopardy.

By the way, Trembley does not like to lose. In fact, he hates it. If you wonder why his demeanor has not been great on the post game interviews it's because HE HATES TO LOSE and the Orioles have been doing a lot of it lately.

It's a young team that will get better over the next few years. Snyder will be here and will help out the lineup. Arrieta, Matusz and Tillman will be in the rotation at some point next year and possibly even this year at some point. Wieters is going to hit and Markakis is going to get out of this slump.

I think a few of you need to realize this is not a good team right now, but it will be in a year or two. We all knew this coming into the season but people are suddenly looking for someone to blame. I understand when teams lose the managers usually take the fall, but in this case, the organization is all about stability and although the wins and losses are not improving, the entire organization is heading in the right direction and Trembley is part of that.

I don't disagree with anything you said here. However, one thing you didn't say is even with all these new guys coming up to help out, we will still be a third place team at best. I just don't see us EVER competing with the Yanks and Sox again on an annual regular basis unless we start spending like they do. We can bring up all the young talent in the world, but when the time is right, you need to add a $180 million man (I won't mention his name in fear of a JTrea tantrum) to really solidify the team. I like the rebuild that MacPhail is doing, but I just don't think the young team we know is coming will be able to win in the AL East. Any other division? Definitely. AL East? Doubtful.

That said, and back on topic, Trembley doesn't have much to work with, and should not take the fall for a team that is rebuilding and is expected to be a last place team. To put it into a performance review...Trembley is MEETING EXPECTATIONS at this point in time.

[Hank Scorpio]

I'll have to check but I don't think they are doing this anymore.

No longer taking infield would be an example of what I'm talking about, here.

[Satyr3206]

That was Perlozzo, not Trembley.


Wieters has started 13 of the Orioles' 16 games since he came up. That's not "half" by any accepted definition.


He seemed interested in both, actually. At one point he was actually holding Mora back from an umpire while simultaneously arguing with a different umpire. As I posted earlier, Trembley was on the field for a good 5 minutes, getting in the face of multiple umpires to argue his case, and he managed to save Mora from ejection. I thought he multi-tasked pretty well. :D

Your right that was Perlozzo, my mistake. But I still don't like the prior notice of getting days off.

As for the playing time, Wieters gets 2 hits then gets sat the next day. Wiggy hits 2 bombs and gets sat the next day. It seems to me if a player is coming out of a slump and is swinging a hot bat, that's when you keep him in the lineup. And Mora needs to be moved out of the 5 hole and maybe be given some pine time.

I've said for the last 2 years Trembley doesn't stand up for his players enough with Umps. He seems to internalize it instead of confronting the Umps. I'm not saying we need a madman running out there every inning, but if some of these calls were made with, say, Leyland or Maddon runnning the show, the Umps would get an earful.

Maybe I'm old school but I think players and managers should be held accountable. I don't think the O's have the horses to compete this year but the team could be managed better. That's my 2 cents.

[Singleton]

Eaton and Walker are no longer on the team, and Hendrickson is in the pen where he belongs. I don't think anyone is focusing on those players at this point.

Really? I hadn't realized.:rolleyes:

You miss the point. People have unrealistic expectations for the major league team. When things go poorly, they look for someone to blame. There were thousands of posts complaining about Eaton, Hendrickson and Walker when it really didn't matter. If they had been major league average we'd have 1 or 2 more wins. And then?

Two of them are gone and the other has such a reduced role it doesn't matter so now folks need to find someone else to vent on and we're now set for a summer full of debate about DT.

Our record wouldn't be much different with Earl Weaver. We don't have the talent to win a lot of games. If we're still scuffling after more talent arrives then lets debate. Until then, it isn't worth it (IMO).

[Sports Guy]

There is a lot to like and dislike about DT.

Let's see how this team ends the year..If they collapse, he has no business being brought back.

If they end strong, then by all means, bring him back(and maybe even extend him).

[Hank Scorpio]

I would also submit this for your consideration:

Over the course of the past 12 years, one of the most consistent things has been the revolving door of managers & GM's floating through here.

We have long clamored for a "plan" from this organization. Part of that plan should be a consistent thought process / way of doing things going forward from the day they sign their contract to the day they leave the organization.

I believe that there is something to be said for Trembley being at the head of this bobsled once all these young pitchers are up and contributing. One of the marks of a good organization (IMO) is stability in the front office and in leadership roles.

Once there is some new blood across the board (sans Roberts), I think Trembley will be fine.

[Hank Scorpio]

There is a lot to like and dislike about DT.

Let's see how this team ends the year..If they collapse, he has no business being brought back.

If they end strong, then by all means, bring him back(and maybe even extend him).

I sort of agree with this, but I honestly don't think it'll matter because MacPhail has anticipated a certain amount of "pain" this year.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Sports Guy]

I sort of agree with this, but I honestly don't think it'll matter because MacPhail has anticipated a certain amount of "pain" this year.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Losing games isn't the problem though...its how you lose them...Its how you control(or don't control) the clubhouse...It is about evaluating the manager and saying that this guy can or can not take us to that next level when the talent is here.

DT is a very likeable guy...by the fans and media.

That doesn't mean he is the guy to take us to the next level...Of course, he may be that guy as well.

[JTrea81]

I sort of agree with this, but I honestly don't think it'll matter because MacPhail has anticipated a certain amount of "pain" this year.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

True, but the future is arriving faster than people probably anticipated. And how much "pain" do we really want to expose guys like Matt Wieters to?

We don't want these guys to get accustomed to the losing culture...

If Trembley isn't the guy, better to make a clean break now and send a message that the Orioles plan on changing things up and that losing and the losing mentality will no longer be acceptable as it seems to be now under Trembley.

[Frobby]

I think calling out Trembley for fundamentals is misguided and silly. Most of that stuff he has little or no control over. You don't learn fundamentals in the majors any more than you learn to fly an airplane after United hires you.

But I think he does deserve a little bit of blame for the baserunning. The O's are easily last in MLB in BP's equivalent baserunning runs (which tallies up the average run values of all of the things that happen on the bases). The O's are at -15, four runs worse than any other MLB team, and 25 runs worse than the league-leading Rays (or about two and a half wins). Trembley does talk quite a bit about staying very aggressive, and in my opinion he doesn't realize/grasp/care about (and I don't know which it is) the fact that this aggressiveness is costing a lot of runs.

His failure to appreciate this is the single biggest flaw Trembley has, in my opinion.

[Mashed Potatoes]

True, but the future is arriving faster than people probably anticipated. And how much "pain" do we really want to expose guys like Matt Wieters to?

We don't want these guys to get accustomed to the losing culture...

You change the losing culture by winning, you win by bringing in better players, this has nothing to do with DT.

[JTrea81]

You change the losing culture by winning, you win by bringing in better players, this has nothing to do with DT.

We turned over the rotation but are still losing, we brought in Wieters and Reimold but are still losing.

The pitching has got better but now the hitting stinks and we've got good offensive players, but there is no motivation right now to win.

Motivating your team to win is part of the manager's job.

[Sports Guy]

We turned over the rotation but are still losing, we brought in Wieters and Reimold but are still losing.

The pitching has got better but now the hitting stinks and we've got good offensive players, but there is no motivation right now to win.

Motivating your team to win is part of the manager's job.

You are wrong about the motivation stuff...the young talent wants to stay here and the vets who are FAs want larger deals..This has been pointed out to you many times...Not sure why you choose to ignore it.

There is plenty of motivation for those players and if the motivation isn't there, thats because they are pathetic, not because of DT.

[Tony-OH]

I think calling out Trembley for fundamentals is misguided and silly. Most of that stuff he has little or no control over. You don't learn fundamentals in the majors any more than you learn to fly an airplane after United hires you.

But I think he does deserve a little bit of blame for the baserunning. The O's are easily last in MLB in BP's equivalent baserunning runs (which tallies up the average run values of all of the things that happen on the bases). The O's are at -15, four runs worse than any other MLB team, and 25 runs worse than the league-leading Rays (or about two and a half wins). Trembley does talk quite a bit about staying very aggressive, and in my opinion he doesn't realize/grasp/care about (and I don't know which it is) the fact that this aggressiveness is costing a lot of runs.

I can buy that his aggressiveness on the base paths, especially with calling for hit and runs can be debated at length, but I'm not concvinced that base running errors in in of themselves are his fault. Knowing Dave like I do, I would not doubt he has talks with players in private when they make continual and obvious mistakes on the bases.

[osfan83]

Give me examples please of these lack of fundamentals. If you are talking base running, there's nothing Trembley really can do about that. The players he has are the players he has. The ones that make dump base running mistakes are the guys who have ALWAYS made dumb base running mistakes for the most part. Some guys have great base running instincts and some don't. There is very little a major league manager can do about this other than replace said runner late in games if the run could mean the difference in a game, and then he needs to have guys who can run on his bench.

Are players overthrowing cut off men? Are infielders not lining up their cutoffs correctly? Are infielders not covering bases on steals? I hear you say the Orioles lack fundamentals yet I don't see anything that stands out as an undisciplined team when I watch them.

They make mistakes, mental and physical like every other team, but I do not see a problem here. What am I missing?

What good is it to preach funamentals, yet be one of the worst baseruning and fielding teams in the league? I'd much rather be in the top half of the league in fielding and baserunning, with a manager than never talks about fundamentals. Actions speak louder than words.

[JTrea81]

BTW if Trembley is accepting losing now, how is the team going to respond to him when he suddenly starts cracking down on them for things that he's letting go now because it's a rebuilding year.

If he starts getting on guys after letting them get away with so many things, they will turn against him quickly.

That's why I just don't see him being brought back. I think we need a new guy to come in here on Day 1 and tell the team what he expects from the get go, so they won't be able to say or think "well you let me do this last year."

[Aglets]

We turned over the rotation but are still losing, we brought in Wieters and Reimold but are still losing.

The pitching has got better but now the hitting stinks and we've got good offensive players, but there is no motivation right now to win.

Motivating your team to win is part of the manager's job.

Sorry JTrea, but this strikes me as a whole bunch of hooey.

You are acting like Wieters has been productive since he has been here for one thing.........and then since he really hasn't been you want to blame his lack thereof on DT?

It's as if you're saying, "we've had a bit of a roster turnover........but we're still losing........so the cause must be elsewhere."

It must be somewhere that's been here all along.......i know.......the manager! I'll take it one step further........the Crab Shuffle has been here for even longer and I hate it and we keep losing........maybe they should cut the Crab Shuffle.

Yes there has been a big roster turnover, and yes we are still losing, but outside of Bergesen and Reimold, who out of these "new kids" is really tearing it up and contributing? Hill? Berken?

It seems to me like you've made your conclusions and are digging for facts to support them. Losing does not mean that the players WANT to lose, or that Trembley is indifferent towards losing. In fact I would argue that that p.o.v. is just absurd.

[PaulFolk]

Your right that was Perlozzo, my mistake. But I still don't like the prior notice of getting days off.
Why? It's just a respectful thing to do. It doesn't hurt anybody, and the players appreciate it.


I've said for the last 2 years Trembley doesn't stand up for his players enough with Umps. He seems to internalize it instead of confronting the Umps. I'm not saying we need a madman running out there every inning, but if some of these calls were made with, say, Leyland or Maddon runnning the show, the Umps would get an earful.
I don't understand why people say this. Trembley has had some absolutely classic tirades-- I remember one where he actually tried to eject the umpire. Heck, just a few weeks ago, Trembley got in the ump's face-- and got ejected-- after the phantom balk call on Jamie Walker cost the O's a game.

It's a myth to say that Trembley never gets angry or shows emotion when arguing with umps.

[JTrea81]

Sorry JTrea, but this strikes me as a whole bunch of hooey.

You are acting like Wieters has been productive since he has been here for one thing.........and then since he really hasn't been you want to blame his lack thereof on DT?

It's as if you're saying, "we've had a bit of a roster turnover........but we're still losing........so the cause must be elsewhere."

It must be somewhere that's been here all along.......i know.......the manager! I'll take it one step further........the Crab Shuffle has been here for even longer and I hate it and we keep losing........maybe they should cut the Crab Shuffle.

Yes there has been a big roster turnover, and yes we are still losing, but outside of Bergesen and Reimold, who out of these "new kids" is really tearing it up and contributing? Hill? Berken?

It seems to me like you've made your conclusions and are digging for facts to support them. Losing does not mean that the players WANT to lose, or that Trembley is indifferent towards losing. In fact I would argue that that p.o.v. is just absurd.

I'm saying the lack of motivation could be a reason why Wieters let alone the whole team is struggling. And Trembley has no pressure to win right now because he's in a "rebuilding" year. After all last year was a rebuilding year and the team tanked and Trembley was extended, so why should this year be any different? Frankly I think his job security needs to get a little less secure so maybe he'll start cracking down and motivating this team some more instead of just saying "that's just baseball."

[AlBumbry]

There is a lot to like and dislike about DT.

Let's see how this team ends the year..If they collapse, he has no business being brought back.

If they end strong, then by all means, bring him back(and maybe even extend him).

I actually agree with you on this one . . . this team, as currently constructed, should be a .500 team IMO. Assuming no major injuries, there is no reason for another one of the collapses we have seen most of the past several years.

The only caveat I would throw out there would be the impact of any trades we make, depending on the level of any talent we get back.

[Moose Milligan]

I'm saying the lack of motivation could be a reason why Wieters is struggling. And Trembley has no pressure to win right now because he's in a "rebuilding" year. Frankly I think his job security needs to get a little less secure so maybe he'll start cracking down and motivating this team some more instead of just saying "that's just baseball."

:laughlol::laughlol: Wieters isn't motivated. Right.

[PaulFolk]

BTW if Trembley is accepting losing now, how is the team going to respond to him when he suddenly starts cracking down on them for things that he's letting go now because it's a rebuilding year.
What do you mean by "accepting losing"? As Tony said, Trembley HATES to lose. He wants to win every time he manages a game.

[Mashed Potatoes]

We turned over the rotation but are still losing, we brought in Wieters and Reimold but are still losing.

We maintained Guts and Koji. Is it Trembley's fault Guts isn't pitching like Guts and Koji got hurt?

We added Dick Hill, a guy the Cubs gave away for nothing, he's sporting a 5.81 ERA. Is that DT's fault the guy has no command?

We added Berken, a lower level prospect who most scouts believe belong in the pen, not the rotation, he's sporting a 7.32 ERA. That's DT's fault?

Brad Bergesen is absolutely an improvement and has exceeded expectations.

Yes we've turned the rotation over, but we haven't actually improved it that much.

Reimold has been an improvement with the bat, and a step back with the glove.

Zaun has a .610 OPS, Wieters has a .584 OPS, obviously Wieters will finish better but this hasn't been an improvement yet.

You want to know why we are still losing? Even with the changes our talent level is below our competitors.


The pitching has got better but now the hitting stinks and we've got good offensive players, but there is no motivation right now to win.

I wonder if you could find me a study where players perform better under particular managers because of their more motivating style, or even a quote from a player displaying their dissatisfaction with DT.

Our pitching is still mediocre, we're allowing 5.45 runs per game, that's not good enough to win consistently.

[JTrea81]

What do you mean by "accepting losing"? As Tony said, Trembley HATES to lose. He wants to win every time he manages a game.

You sure could fool me by his press conferences. He looks defeated now, like losing has become second nature...

[hihop07]

"We added Dick Hill" - :laughlol:

I had to laugh. It's Rich, not Dick.

[Khaezh12]

You sure could fool me by his press conferences. He looks defeated now, like losing has become second nature...

He looks defeated after a loss? Strange.....

[osfan83]

Really? I hadn't realized.:rolleyes:

You miss the point. People have unrealistic expectations for the major league team. When things go poorly, they look for someone to blame. There were thousands of posts complaining about Eaton, Hendrickson and Walker when it really didn't matter. If they had been major league average we'd have 1 or 2 more wins. And then?

Two of them are gone and the other has such a reduced role it doesn't matter so now folks need to find someone else to vent on and we're now set for a summer full of debate about DT.

Our record wouldn't be much different with Earl Weaver. We don't have the talent to win a lot of games. If we're still scuffling after more talent arrives then lets debate. Until then, it isn't worth it (IMO).

On the offensive side who else needs to be replaced? Mora, ok, Izturis is injured, but I feel most everything else is in place. I don't expect Wieters, Reimold and Jones to be playing to their potential yet, but I do expect this team, with it's current players to be able to play average ball. I expect the following players, right now to play at close to a .500 level:

Guthrie
Koji
Bergeson

The pen

Wieters
Huff
Roberts
Markakis
Jones
Reimold
Scott
Wigginton
Izturis (When healthy)

I understand we are waiting on more starting pitching, and when our starters give up 7 in 4 innings, I shrug my shoulders and say help is coming. But when our starters pitch well, and our pen is solid, we should be winning our share of those games, and currently we are not.

[Moose Milligan]

You sure could fool me by his press conferences. He looks defeated now, like losing has become second nature...

Apparently you missed the part where Tony said he Trembley won't take his team to task in front of the press.

It's cool dude, I know you'll keep believing what you want without looking at anything on the contrary.

[PaulFolk]

You sure could fool me by his press conferences. He looks defeated now, like losing has become second nature...
Consider yourself fooled. I haven't noticed any kind of defeated expression from Trembley. Maybe he's a bit less jokey after a loss instead of a win, but defeated? No.

[Mashed Potatoes]

You sure could fool me by his press conferences. He looks defeated now, like losing has become second nature...

That's why the press conferences are for the public, what DT actually says when he addresses the players in the clubhouse...is for the players.


"We added Dick Hill" - :laughlol:

I had to laugh. It's Rich, not Dick.

Richard Joseph Hill. Dick is a nickname for Richard. Start calling him Dick, it's funny because dick is also another word for penis, and penises have to do with sex.

[Aglets]

I think I get it now guys:

JTrea thinks that the team lacks motivation and that their losing ways are due to Trembley not throwing chairs or cussing out reporters in post game press conferences.

If he swore more, we'd be above .500 . What scares me is that there's a chance that people with the power to make actual decisions that affect the team have the ability to think this way.

[Three Run Homer]

I think managers in baseball have a lot less to do with their teams' success than in just about any other sport. In most cases there are no plays to call (and when managers do try to "call a play" such as a hit-and-run, they are shooting themselves in the foot more often than not).

In my opinion the most important job of a manager is filling out the lineup card. Who gets to play and who doesn't is the manager's most important decision. In that regard I give Trembley high marks in most cases--for putting Reimold in the lineup and keeping him there from day one, for instance, and for letting Bergesen pitch his way out of trouble. His biggest flaw is that he defers to much to veterans--Mora really should be sitting in favor of Wigginton or Salazar, and if he plays he should be hitting 8th. I think Zaun has also gotten a little too much playing time since MW's arrival.

[Singleton]

On the offensive side who else needs to be replaced? Mora, ok, Izturis is injured, but I feel most everything else is in place. I don't expect Wieters, Reimold and Jones to be playing to their potential yet, but I do expect this team, with it's current players to be able to play average ball. I expect the following players, right now to play at close to a .500 level:

Guthrie
Koji
Bergeson

The pen

Wieters
Huff
Roberts
Markakis
Jones
Reimold
Scott
Wigginton
Izturis (When healthy)

I understand we are waiting on more starting pitching, and when our starters give up 7 in 4 innings, I shrug my shoulders and say help is coming. But when our starters pitch well, and our pen is solid, we should be winning our share of those games, and currently we are not.

Actually we are. I think our record is pretty good when we score 4 or more runs in a game.

You named three starting pitchers: One hasn't been very good, one has been on the DL, and one is a rookie who started the year in the minors and is probably not as good as he's pitched. Which of those are DT's fault.

I'm not going to go player by player through the pen but i don't think anyone could seriously expect it to be an above average unit.

Most of the year we've had Zaun who was terrible, Pie who struggled, Izturis whose value is with the glove not the bat and Mora who's looked washed up. Again, which of these are DT's fault?

[SilentJames]

You sure could fool me by his press conferences. He looks defeated now, like losing has become second nature...


Consider yourself fooled. I haven't noticed any kind of defeated expression from Trembley. Maybe he's a bit less jokey after a loss instead of a win, but defeated? No.

It's easy to find something when you are actively looking for it. The "Fire Trembley" Camp is looking at his every move and anything they disagree with is another excuse to fire him.

I swear, the players make mistakes last nigh, but Trembley is the one to get rid of, right sure.

[Tony-OH]

What good is it to preach funamentals, yet be one of the worst baseruning and fielding teams in the league? I'd much rather be in the top half of the league in fielding and baserunning, with a manager than never talks about fundamentals. Actions speak louder than words.

Well I certainly agree :D However, I don't think his actions are contridicting his words. Now, you can probably use "results speak louder than words" and it would be hard to argue, but I still don't think they are Dave's fault.

BTW, how is bad fielding the fault of the manager?

[Dadaist]

BTW, how is bad fielding the fault of the manager?

He should make them take infield practice more frequently?

[SilentJames]

Well I certainly agree :D However, I don't think his actions are contridicting his words. Now, you can probably use "results speak louder than words" and it would be hard to argue, but I still don't think they are Dave's fault.

BTW, how is bad fielding the fault of the manager?

He didn't slap Roberts around a little after the error.

After all verbal and physical abuse shows how much you care.

[Tony-OH]

Why? It's just a respectful thing to do. It doesn't hurt anybody, and the players appreciate it.


I don't understand why people say this. Trembley has had some absolutely classic tirades-- I remember one where he actually tried to eject the umpire. Heck, just a few weeks ago, Trembley got in the ump's face-- and got ejected-- after the phantom balk call on Jamie Walker cost the O's a game.

It's a myth to say that Trembley never gets angry or shows emotion when arguing with umps.

Don't let myths and groupthink get in the way of the anti-Trembley guys or they'll have nothing to complain about.

[SilentJames]

He should make them take infield practice more frequently?

Trembely has them take infield more than most other managers in the league. All the infield in the world will not prevent the occasional error.

God sake Roberts has four all season.

[Tony-OH]

You sure could fool me by his press conferences. He looks defeated now, like losing has become second nature...

I'm sure that's how MacPhail evaluates his manager as well. :rolleyes:

[osfan83]

It's easy to find something when you are actively looking for it. The "Fire Trembley" Camp is looking at his every move and anything they disagree with is another excuse to fire him.

I swear, the players make mistakes last nigh, but Trembley is the one to get rid of, right sure.

Don't know if there is a "fire Trembley camp". There are some people speculating if he will be asked back in 2010, although I have yet to see anyone say he definatly shouldn't be brought back.

[SilentJames]

Don't know if there is a "fire Trembley camp". There are some people speculating if he will be asked back in 2010, although I have yet to see anyone say he definatly shouldn't be brought back.

Indeed the camp is pretty much JTrea.

[osfan83]

Well I certainly agree :D However, I don't think his actions are contridicting his words. Now, you can probably use "results speak louder than words" and it would be hard to argue, but I still don't think they are Dave's fault.

BTW, how is bad fielding the fault of the manager?

Don't know if it is...but will you admit that a team that ranks near the bottom in fielding year in and year out is considered a team lacking in fundamentals?

[osfan83]

Trembely has them take infield more than most other managers in the league. All the infield in the world will not prevent the occasional error.

God sake Roberts has four all season.

occasional error is fine...leading the league or close to it, is not.

[Burg]

You are wrong about the motivation stuff...the young talent wants to stay here and the vets who are FAs want larger deals..This has been pointed out to you many times...Not sure why you choose to ignore it.

There is plenty of motivation for those players and if the motivation isn't there, thats because they are pathetic, not because of DT.

Because his mind is made up and, therefore, all evidence showing that he's wrong must be ignored or overlooked.

Quite frustrating really.

[SilentJames]

occasional error is fine...leading the league or close to it, is not.

We had a TERRIBLE April, but we have been perfectly fine since then

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81632&highlight=Orioles+defense

The Orioles have made 40 errors all year.

21 in their first 27, we have played 64 games so far.

the Orioles have only made 19 errors in their last 37 games.

Even with the horrid April the Orioles are only two errors over the league average. (38)

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=errors&split=0&group=9&season=2009&seasonType=2&statType=fielding&type=reg

[osfan83]

Again, I don't understand why people expect us to win this season.

We threw out Hendrickson, Eaton, Walker, and Zaun...Is that DT's fault that players not even in the top 40 of our organization were thrown out there on a daily basis for whatever reason?

There is nothing that DT does that you look at and say, this guy is clueless.

People like to rag on his bullpen use but lately it has been much better, it's just an easy thing to criticize him on. The past 5 managers we've had people say have horrible bullpen management. Well, maybe that's becuase we have Kline and Dejean and Walker and Hendrickson and guys who aren't even in the majors anymore?

No one respected Mazzilli. Perlozzo was over his head. DT does not have those problems.

DT is on board with AM and they are building a team. They are doing things this year to build the team.

They are playing older, overpaid guys to build their trade value. They are playing those pitchers to bridge the gap. They are throwing young guys out there to evaluate them. FOR THE FUTURE.

When you are playing for the FUTURE, you don't kill the guy for not winning in the PRESENT.

I must disagree here. Mora is not being played to increase his trade value. Huff is being played because he is the best option available to us at 1b. I think most of the team we expect to be competitive with is actually playing:

Wieters - Part of the future
Huff - might even be signed for next year
Roberts - part of our future
Izturis - will be playing next year, and maybe beyond
Mora - will be gone
Markakis - Part of the future
Jones - Part of the future
Reimold - Part of the future
Scott - might be part of the future

Guthrie - could be in the rotation 2010 & 2011
Koji - will be here in some form in 2010 & 2011
Bergeson - Part ofthe future
Hill/Berken one may be in the rotation to start 2010.

Playing old vets is defenitly not our problem right now.

[RHall31]

Give me examples please of these lack of fundamentals. If you are talking base running, there's nothing Trembley really can do about that. The players he has are the players he has. The ones that make dump base running mistakes are the guys who have ALWAYS made dumb base running mistakes for the most part. Some guys have great base running instincts and some don't. There is very little a major league manager can do about this other than replace said runner late in games if the run could mean the difference in a game, and then he needs to have guys who can run on his bench.

Are players overthrowing cut off men? Are infielders not lining up their cutoffs correctly? Are infielders not covering bases on steals? I hear you say the Orioles lack fundamentals yet I don't see anything that stands out as an undisciplined team when I watch them.

They make mistakes, mental and physical like every other team, but I do not see a problem here. What am I missing?

Roberts in poor position to make a strong relay throw home and Ryan(wheels)
Howard scores from first. A very poorly executed play by the Orioles.