Wizards close to deal of #5 pick for Foye and Miller

[mweb]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4282279

[blakesta]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4282279

Makes sense.

They werent going to get Blake Griffin at #5.

[ccbird]

Foye and Miller are both better in the short term than anyone they could get at 5. Definitely makes next years team better. Plus they shed a couple of bad contracts in Thomas and Songila. Ultimately I guess it comes down to Foye vs Evans, Harden, Curry, or whoever else they were thinking of selecting. Going to have to wait a few years to figure that one out but overall I think it's a solid move.

[Pedro Cerrano]

As I said in the other thread. If Randy Foye was available to be selected #5 would I take him?

Yes.

[adamwolff11]

I like it a lot. I also like Mike Miller off the bench. Definitely good pieces for next year's team.

[sbrown4]

"Maybe the Wolves can package their 4 first round picks and trade them for a 20-win head start."

Saw this comment on ESPN. Couldn't resist.

[Dr. FLK]

I'm surprised that this many people like the deal. Foye is a sold PG, but his numbers don't really impress me all that much. Mike Miller isn't anything special. It will make the Wiz better next season, but will it make them enough better to actually matter? Long term, I see this as a loss for the Wiz.

[Sports Guy]

I'm surprised that this many people like the deal. Foye is a sold PG, but his numbers don't really impress me all that much. Mike Miller isn't anything special. It will make the Wiz better next season, but will it make them enough better to actually matter? Long term, I see this as a loss for the Wiz.
How is it a loss long term?

Because they lost the #5 pick?

[isestrex]

Yet another "magical" trade where Ernie dangles our trash in front of another team and manages somehow to get serviceable treasure instead. I don't understand how he does it. The man is gifted.

Breaking it down:

-Getting Randy Foye officially ends the Javaris Crittenton experiment (not that it was going well anyway). Foye and Gil are Point Guards now. Crittenton and Mike James should prepare to ride considerable pine (err...a... steel...)

-Mike Miller creates a bit of a log jam at the 3 but thankfully he can play the 2. Of course, this means squeezing out Stevenson and confirming that the job is NOT Nick Young's.

-Songaila wasn't Ben Wallace down low but he WAS the best low post defender on the team. The Wizards have gotten rid of a log jam at the center position and put their faith exclusively in the trio of Haywood/Blatche/McGee. Losing Darius is a bit of a disappointment considering how great he played last year, but considering what they got in return...

-The 5th pick was trash. Good riddance.


Overall, we got rid of trash at one end (down low) and created a log jam at the other end (perimeter), but we upgraded the overall talent in the deal and dumped a ton of salary.

Trade Grade = B+ (with a chance for an A if Foye exceeds expectations).

[Dr. FLK]

How is it a loss long term?

Because they lost the #5 pick?

I guess I'm not as high on Foye as most, and I don't see him as a long term solution at PG.

[isestrex]

I guess I'm not as high on Foye as most, and I don't see him as a long term solution at PG.

Um, that's sorta what Gilbert is for.

[PaulBako]

Lets hope that Gilbert doesn't blow out his knees again. I'm so mad about that contract, and if he gets injured again...

At least we have someone to back him up.

[Dr. FLK]

Um, that's sorta what Gilbert is for.

So if they already have a long term solution at PG, why did they deal the 5th pick for a PG?

[Pedro Cerrano]

Foye is better suited as an SG. He's 6'4". Last year in the second half he averaged almost 20 PPG and 4 APG.

He's also a pretty solid player defensively. In a bad draft he's not a bad parting gift for exiting the first round.

[Pedro Cerrano]

So if they already have a long term solution at PG, why did they deal the 5th pick for a PG?

Well they really don't have a long term solution there, both Gil and Foye are better suited at the 2. One of them will have to play PG and it will probably be Arenas -- he's smaller, quicker, has played the position before.

[beaner]

This is an absolutely BRILLIANT trade by Ernie G. The #5 pick was worth nothing if they couldn't get Rubio, who by all accounts had no interest in playing in Washington. He's the only player in this draft that will be a surefire superstar in my opinion. Griffin will be good, and there won't be another star in the bunch save for DeRozan and Holliday one day. Honestly, this is one of the worst drafts in recent memory (Steph Curry and James Harden could be top 5 picks, are you kidding me?). Randy Foye would go top 3 easily in this draft. He averaged 16 and 4.2 assists last year. He's a good guy too and won't sulk when Gilbert gets in take over mode.

Ernie got rid of a ton of salary and Miller comes off the books next year too. Minnesota now has 4 first round picks and can start to rebuild around Jefferson, Love, and whoever they get at 5 and 6. Great deal all around.

[Sports Guy]

I guess I'm not as high on Foye as most, and I don't see him as a long term solution at PG.

The real question is, #5 pick or Randy Foye?

That is what you are looking at.

[Sports Guy]

This is an absolutely BRILLIANT trade by Ernie G. The #5 pick was worth nothing if they couldn't get Rubio, who by all accounts had no interest in playing in Washington. He's the only player in this draft that will be a surefire superstar in my opinion. Griffin will be good, and there won't be another star in the bunch save for DeRozan and Holliday one day. Honestly, this is one of the worst drafts in recent memory (Steph Curry and James Harden could be top 5 picks, are you kidding me?). Randy Foye would go top 3 easily in this draft. He averaged 16 and 4.2 assists last year. He's a good guy too and won't sulk when Gilbert gets in take over mode.

Ernie got rid of a ton of salary and Miller comes off the books next year too. Minnesota now has 4 first round picks and can start to rebuild around Jefferson, Love, and whoever they get at 5 and 6. Great deal all around.
Yea, I agree....Minnesota is trying to start over...Good chance that with those 4 picks, they get a long term solution somewhere and at least one other solid role player when all is said and done.

Basically, the Wizards said, Foye is better than anyone we can get at #5...That may or may not be true in the long run but the Wizards still got a very capabale, young player with as good or better talent than anyone in the draft.

I agree about Rubio...he is going to be very good.

[Pedro Cerrano]

The real question is, #5 pick or Randy Foye?

That is what you are looking at.

Foye, and it's not close.

[Elon Os Fan]

So what are we looking at depth chart wise?

[Tony-OH]

When Foye gets hot, he can be quite a scorer but he was a pretty slow starter last year. Anyone know if Zero is going to be back 100% by the start of next year? Or at least 100% of whatever's left after the year off and bad knees?

[isestrex]

So what are we looking at depth chart wise?

It's crazy but this is it:



PG = Arenas | Foye | James | Crittenton |
SG = Stevenson | Miller | Foye | McGuire | Young
SF = Butler | McGuire | Miller | Jamison |
PF = Jamison | Blatche | McGuire | |
C = Haywood | Blatche | McGee | |


The log jam is the 1/2 spots. You have to expect Stevenson and Miller to play the majority of time (though I sincerely hope they trade Stevenson) and Foye/Arenas might share some time at the 2 as they will try to have both out there at the same time.

One thing's for sure... Flip is going to have his hands full this season.

[YardBirds13]

I'll be disappointed if Foye isn't the starting 2-guard along with Gil in the backcourt. He is 6-4, a solid defender on the perimeter, and can shoot it. Why wouldn't he start for us?

Here is how I see it right now:

PG- Arenas--Crittendon--James
SG- Foye--Stevenson--Young
SF- Butler--Miller
PF- Jamison--Blatche--McGuire
C- Haywood--McGee

How sweet would it be if we could dump Stevenson? James' expiring deal will be something people want later in the year (Miller's as well if he isn't playing well), so that gives us flexibility.

Young needs to get more minutes than Stevenson and Critt needs to get more minutes than Mike James. As long as those two things happen, and Foye is the starting 2, I'm actually pretty psyched about this team.

*Assuming health (doesn't it just feel like you HAVE to say that with these guys?)

[Hallas]

The value of this trade comes more with unloading Songaila and Thomas, in my opinion. Foye against Rubio is probably a wash, with the exception that Rubio (according to Beaner) doesn't want to play in DC, and we already have a PG (in theory.)

Miller is a bit puzzling, but I guess he can give us some minutes off the bench. I'm not really that high on the move, but I think it benefits us more in the next three years than keeping the #5 pick would have. The only reason I do this deal is because I have Arenas clogging up the PG spot for the next however many years.

I would unload Foye or Butler to a team with frontcourt depth if at all possible. Jamison can move to the 3 if Butler gets traded and we get a real #4 in return.

[Dr. FLK]

Yea, I agree....Minnesota is trying to start over...Good chance that with those 4 picks, they get a long term solution somewhere and at least one other solid role player when all is said and done.

Basically, the Wizards said, Foye is better than anyone we can get at #5...That may or may not be true in the long run but the Wizards still got a very capabale, young player with as good or better talent than anyone in the draft.

I agree about Rubio...he is going to be very good.

Do you still like the deal knowing that the Wiz could have gotten Rubio at 5?

[Pedro Cerrano]

Do you still like the deal knowing that the Wiz could have gotten Rubio at 5?

Absolutely not. I would have bet my first-born (future consideration) that the Queens would be all over Rubio. Just another reason to despise that organization (as a Laker fan too).

[Dr. FLK]

Absolutely not. I would have bet my first-born (future consideration) that the Queens would be all over Rubio. Just another reason to despise that organization (as a Laker fan too).

I didn't like the deal before I knew that, but I like it even less after. I would rather have drafted Evans at 5 (I thought he would be there), and possible even Harden. IMO, the deal now looks like [Rubio + Salary Dump] for a [Solid PG (Foye) + Mediocre Swing Man (Miller)].

[beaner]

The Wizards think they can win now, although the 3 best teams in the East just added Shaq, Vince, and Boston will have Garnett back in the playoffs, so essentially the Wiz will be lucky to get a #4-5 seed in the playoffs. They didn't think Rubio would fall that far, and honestly, what were the "Sonics" thinking? it honestly makes no sense.

I wanted Rubio more than anything, he'll be the only All star from this class in my opinion. Damn shame, really is.

That being said, Foye will be a terrific addition, and Miller is gone after the season anyway, so no biggie.

[Dr. FLK]

The Wizards think they can win now, although the 3 best teams in the East just added Shaq, Vince, and Boston will have Garnett back in the playoffs, so essentially the Wiz will be lucky to get a #4-5 seed in the playoffs. They didn't think Rubio would fall that far, and honestly, what were the "Sonics" thinking? it honestly makes no sense.

I wanted Rubio more than anything, he'll be the only All star from this class in my opinion. Damn shame, really is.

That being said, Foye will be a terrific addition, and Miller is gone after the season anyway, so no biggie.

IMO, the Wiz have fallen into the "we can be slightly above mediocre now" though process. Gil is an aging guard coming off quite a few knee surgeries. Jamison is a solid scorer. Caron is really nice. But, outside of those 3, there isn't much there. Foye doesn't make this team a contender, he probably gets them into the playoffs. But most of their "stars" are either at the end of their prime...or already out of it. This isn't a team built for a championship...it's a team built to rebuild in a few years.

[Birds08]

This team is a slightly better version of what the Orioles were until MacPhail came in. They are a playoff team, but have no chance for a title and have absolutely no vision in terms of building a contender for the long haul. I understand the need for the salary dump, but I think they should've figured out a way to wait and see if Rubio would be available. This trade will come back to haunt the Wiz.

Also, there was some first round talent available in the second round, but instead they essentially draft cash. Would Dejuan Blair not have been a perfect fit for this team that is currently soft on the interior. I am sickened by the first round trade, and nearly as sickened by the second round pick and subsequent trade for cash.

I just see this as a team having absolutely no direction. They are in win-now mode, but have no chance at anything more than conference semifinals in my mind.

[Dr. FLK]

Also, there was some first round talent available in the second round, but instead they essentially draft cash. Would Dejuan Blair not have been a perfect fit for this team that is currently soft on the interior. I am sickened by the first round trade, and nearly as sickened by the second round pick and subsequent trade for cash.

I just see this as a team having absolutely no direction. They are in win-now mode, but have no chance at anything more than conference semifinals in my mind.

I'm with you completely. I was yelling at them to draft Blair! The long term deal to Gil and trading away the picks will help set this team back for a few years IMO.

[beaner]

Don't underestimate Haywood and McGee. Haywood has made himself a pretty good center, and it's not like they need the scoring really. With Blair's drop last night, you gotta assume there are major knee issues. He destroyed the big stiff from UCONN last year and he went #2.

I'm not putting the Wiz in Cle/Bos/Orlando class, but they're pretty good.

[Dr. FLK]

Don't underestimate Haywood and McGee. Haywood has made himself a pretty good center, and it's not like they need the scoring really. With Blair's drop last night, you gotta assume there are major knee issues. He destroyed the big stiff from UCONN last year and he went #2.

I'm not putting the Wiz in Cle/Bos/Orlando class, but they're pretty good.

McGee is not a big man unless he gains a LOT of weight. He can't guard anyone in the block really. He can block shots, but shot blocking does not alone make a low post defender. The Wizards have some "nice" pieces that are leaving - or already out of - their prime. To that, they added a "nice" PG and Mike Miller. In doing so, they gave up the chance to draft Rubio. And, they decided that they don't need a 2nd round pick. IMO, both moves were about opening up cap space.

[beaner]

McGee is not a big man unless he gains a LOT of weight. He can't guard anyone in the block really. He can block shots, but shot blocking does not alone make a low post defender. The Wizards have some "nice" pieces that are leaving - or already out of - their prime. To that, they added a "nice" PG and Mike Miller. In doing so, they gave up the chance to draft Rubio. And, they decided that they don't need a 2nd round pick. IMO, both moves were about opening up cap space.

I assume McGee will put on weight, but yeah, the Wiz will have to play the D'Antoni Phoenix style and score 120 points per. Foye is really good, and he'll fit in nicely. Granted, Rubio would have been perfect with so much scoring around him, but Ernie obviously didn't think Memphis, OKC, and Sacramento would be so stupid and pass on him. Thabeet has no offensive skills, Harden stinks, and Evans should be in jail. I still can't believe this draft.

[PaulBako]

This was a Horrible draft.

[Sports Guy]

Rubio and Blair or Foye, Miller and getting rid of contracts?

[isestrex]

I didn't like the deal before I knew that, but I like it even less after. I would rather have drafted Evans at 5 (I thought he would be there), and possible even Harden. IMO, the deal now looks like [Rubio + Salary Dump] for a [Solid PG (Foye) + Mediocre Swing Man (Miller)].

Let me re-structure this:

[Unproven and inexperienced rookie (Rubio) + Dead Weight + Salary Dump]
for
[Proven and experienced PG (Foye) + Mediocre Swing Man (Miller) + Salary Dump (Miller)]

In my opinion: [Foye > Rubio] and [Miller > Thomas + Songaila].

Foye will help us win now. Rubio is only 18. Miller will contribute more this year than Thomas and Songaila combined would and all of them are salary dumps. Thomas/Songaila = 11.1M... Miller 9.0M

[Pedro Cerrano]

Rubio and Blair or Foye, Miller and getting rid of contracts?

Rubio and Blair.

This draft was a colossal mistake for the Wizards, but they probably assumed (like I did) that the Queens were taking Rubio.

[Sports Guy]

Rubio and Blair.

This draft was a colossal mistake for the Wizards, but they probably assumed (like I did) that the Queens were taking Rubio.

Well, the question is, could they have made the same deal but waited until their pick to do it?

[isestrex]

Rubio and Blair.

This draft was a colossal mistake for the Wizards, but they probably assumed (like I did) that the Queens were taking Rubio.

I completely disagree.

As draft week went on, more and more experts starting noting holes in Rubio's game. He still has the potential to be a big player but he's not Tony Parker yet. It will take a lot of time and there's a good chance he'll never be that. The correlations to Pistol Pete were ridiculous.

Ernie Grunfield said point blank (before the draft) that unless Blake Griffin slipped to #5, he wouldn't be at all disappointed with the trade. He didn't like anyone in the draft (including Rubio) more than he liked the tandem of Foye and Miller's expiring contract.

I agree with him.

[Hallas]

I completely disagree.

As draft week went on, more and more experts starting noting holes in Rubio's game. He still has the potential to be a big player but he's not Tony Parker yet. It will take a lot of time and there's a good chance he'll never be that. The correlations to Pistol Pete were ridiculous.

Ernie Grunfield said point blank (before the draft) that unless Blake Griffin slipped to #5, he wouldn't be at all disappointed with the trade. He didn't like anyone in the draft (including Rubio) more than he liked the tandem of Foye and Miller's expiring contract.

I agree with him.

The problem with this move is it necessitates another move. They have two combo guards, three small forwards, and no real big men. (Jamison is still a SF in my opinion.) You can mix Haywood in as a center, but the fact remains that they are sorely lacking in frontcourt depth.

I think losing the bad contracts is huge and probably worth more than Rubio, especially considering that, over the next few years, this franchise will live and die by the health of Gilbert Arenas's knees regardless of whether Rubio comes here or not.

[Burg]

I think its a fallacy to think that Rubio falls to the Wizards if they don't make the trade with Minnesota.

Minny wanted Rubio. What's to say that if the Wizards hadn't dealt them the #5, they don't make a move and get picks 2, 3, or 4? Then Washington has all the deadweight they had, no Foye/Miller, and a project like Harden, etc.

Plus there's no guarantee that Rubio leaves Spain to come to Washington. Also, by the time he's good, it's three years from now and who the hell knows what the "Big 3" are like at that point in time.

Good deal for the Wiz, IMO.

[isestrex]

The problem with this move is it necessitates another move. They have two combo guards, three small forwards, and no real big men. (Jamison is still a SF in my opinion.) You can mix Haywood in as a center, but the fact remains that they are sorely lacking in frontcourt depth.

I think losing the bad contracts is huge and probably worth more than Rubio, especially considering that, over the next few years, this franchise will live and die by the health of Gilbert Arenas's knees regardless of whether Rubio comes here or not.

Even if you count Jamison as a 3 who can play the 4 (which I do as well), the Wizards have:

Haywood - a proven (yes, I said proven) NBA center who's main specialty is defense and the teams' overall defensive numbers are unable to be ignored when he is in the game.
Blatche - Though capable of playing the 5, he's much more comfortable playing the 4.
McGee - Showed strong promise in rookie season at being a top NBA center if only he can piece it together.

Saying that the trio of Haywood/Blatche/McGee is more than enough to nail down the Center position is naivety... there's just too many question marks. But right now, the Wizards' organization believes (hopes) that these three can hold their own in the low post.

It's definitely possible... though I'm not holding my breath.
Still... In Ernie We Trust.



I think its a fallacy to think that Rubio falls to the Wizards if they don't make the trade with Minnesota.

Minny wanted Rubio. What's to say that if the Wizards hadn't dealt them the #5, they don't make a move and get picks 2, 3, or 4? Then Washington has all the deadweight they had, no Foye/Miller, and a project like Harden, etc.

Plus there's no guarantee that Rubio leaves Spain to come to Washington. Also, by the time he's good, it's three years from now and who the hell knows what the "Big 3" are like at that point in time.

Good deal for the Wiz, IMO.

Actually Minny did not "want Rubio". Timberwolves GM David Kahn was on Mike and Mike this morning and he specifically said they were targeting Jonny Flynn. They felt that when Rubio fell in their laps at #5 that they simply couldn't pass up the value even though Flynn was first choice. Kahn made it very clear that Rubio is not in their immediate future seeing as how he's only 18 and he will probably play another 2 years in Spain anyway.

All this points to the fact that even if the Wizards had the 5th pick, Ernie probably wouldn't have been jumping up and down like a giddy schoolgirl at the prospect of stealing the young Spaniard. Rubio isn't ready for the NBA right now and Minnesota can wait. The Wizards can't.

[Sports Guy]

Wizards almost got Larry Hughes back:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4290401

[isestrex]

Wizards almost got Larry Hughes back:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4290401

Hughes is an enigma to me... He was fantastic for that one year and he became really good friends with Gilbert. Gil has always said they had great chemistry and court awareness. He's been wanting to hook back up with Larry ever since Cleveland started shopping him around.

But I don't know. He's looked just plain uninterested... like since 2005. He just doesn't seem to want to play to the level he's capable of. I think Larry Hughes is a much bigger risk than Foye. I'm happy with how things turned out.

[Hallas]

Even if you count Jamison as a 3 who can play the 4 (which I do as well), the Wizards have:

Haywood - a proven (yes, I said proven) NBA center who's main specialty is defense and the teams' overall defensive numbers are unable to be ignored when he is in the game.
Blatche - Though capable of playing the 5, he's much more comfortable playing the 4.
McGee - Showed strong promise in rookie season at being a top NBA center if only he can piece it together.

Saying that the trio of Haywood/Blatche/McGee is more than enough to nail down the Center position is naivety... there's just too many question marks. But right now, the Wizards' organization believes (hopes) that these three can hold their own in the low post.

It's definitely possible... though I'm not holding my breath.
Still... In Ernie We Trust.


It seems that other people don't share my opinion of Haywood. Regardless, we are still lacking in frontcourt depth and we really need to look into trading either Jamison, Butler, or Foye for a real post player. Any two of them will fit in nicely as a 2 and a 3.

[Dr. FLK]

It seems that other people don't share my opinion of Haywood. Regardless, we are still lacking in frontcourt depth and we really need to look into trading either Jamison, Butler, or Foye for a real post player. Any two of them will fit in nicely as a 2 and a 3.

Haywood is a solid big man who can get in the way and grab a few boards. He won't scare anyone with his post moves. He doesn't pass all that well. Ideally, he's the C that comes off the bench OR compliments a PF who can score with his back to the basket. Unfortunately, the Wiz don't have anyone who can really score "down low".

Jamison is becoming more and more of a wingman (which leaves the Wiz with approximately 73 wingmen). Blatche is decent. McGee is way too weak to do anything down low. He'll have some nice dunks and blocked shots, but he's like T-Prince with no outside shot. The Wiz need someone for the post if the are serious about competing. Hopefully they aren't done making moves.

[Birds08]

I completely disagree.

As draft week went on, more and more experts starting noting holes in Rubio's game. He still has the potential to be a big player but he's not Tony Parker yet. It will take a lot of time and there's a good chance he'll never be that. The correlations to Pistol Pete were ridiculous.

Ernie Grunfield said point blank (before the draft) that unless Blake Griffin slipped to #5, he wouldn't be at all disappointed with the trade. He didn't like anyone in the draft (including Rubio) more than he liked the tandem of Foye and Miller's expiring contract.

I agree with him.

I guess I differ from you in that I don't trust Grunfeld's opinions one bit. I just think he is a poor GM.

[Birds08]

Haywood is a solid big man who can get in the way and grab a few boards. He won't scare anyone with his post moves. He doesn't pass all that well. Ideally, he's the C that comes off the bench OR compliments a PF who can score with his back to the basket. Unfortunately, the Wiz don't have anyone who can really score "down low".

Jamison is becoming more and more of a wingman (which leaves the Wiz with approximately 73 wingmen). Blatche is decent. McGee is way too weak to do anything down low. He'll have some nice dunks and blocked shots, but he's like T-Prince with no outside shot. The Wiz need someone for the post if the are serious about competing. Hopefully they aren't done making moves.


Agreed. We should have taken Blair. Not a center, but adds some much needed strength, tenacity, and rebounding to the interior.

[isestrex]

I guess I differ from you in that I don't trust Grunfeld's opinions one bit. I just think he is a poor GM.

While this is a completely different topic... why?

Ernie's only weakness is that he doesn't seem to have an eye for talent from the draft perspective. Somehow he just doesn't seem to make good picks.

However he seems to be a magician with trades. So far he's traded Stackhouse for Jamison, Kwame for Butler and then this recent Minn trade. The man knows what he's doing.

[Orioles4Life]

Agreed. We should have taken Blair. Not a center, but adds some much needed strength, tenacity, and rebounding to the interior.

It was a bit stunning that Blair lasted well into the second round and a bit more stunning that the Wizards didnt take him, considering that rebounding has always been a need for them. I think it comes down to money since they are being up against the cap.

[Dr. FLK]

While this is a completely different topic... why?

Ernie's only weakness is that he doesn't seem to have an eye for talent from the draft perspective. Somehow he just doesn't seem to make good picks.

However he seems to be a magician with trades. So far he's traded Stackhouse for Jamison, Kwame for Butler and then this recent Minn trade. The man knows what he's doing.

Didn't you answer your own questions? He's a GM who can't evaluate young talent well. Once someone else does it, he can make some solid trades. But, he stinks in the draft...and that Gil contract was ludicrous. He's made 2 big deals that I like, no good draft picks, 1 deal I don't like, and given out a horrendous long term contract to a guard exiting his prime coming off several knee repairs. He's not terrible, but I think he's drastically overrated around here.

[Orioles4Life]

Didn't you answer your own questions? He's a GM who can't evaluate young talent well. Once someone else does it, he can make some solid trades. But, he stinks in the draft...and that Gil contract was ludicrous. He's made 2 big deals that I like, no good draft picks, 1 deal I don't like, and given out a horrendous long term contract to a guard exiting his prime coming off several knee repairs. He's not terrible, but I think he's drastically overrated around here.

Just curious, if that contract to Gil would not seem so horrible if he would have played t :scratchchinhmm:his past year for the majority of games? I doubt Ernie would admit it, but I would if there was a pressure either from Abe, or the preceived pressure from the fan base to resign Gil to that contract.

[isestrex]

Just curious, if that contract to Gil would not seem so horrible if he would have played t :scratchchinhmm:his past year for the majority of games? I doubt Ernie would admit it, but I would if there was a pressure either from Abe, or the preceived pressure from the fan base to resign Gil to that contract.

There was definitely pressure from Abe. The Gil signing was more Abe's eagerness to compete now rather than Ernie's plan of building a team long term. Abe wants to win before he dies, he's not willing to wait and Gilbert knows it. It's why Gil feels he's above the Coach and GM at times.

[Dr. FLK]

Just curious, if that contract to Gil would not seem so horrible if he would have played t :scratchchinhmm:his past year for the majority of games? I doubt Ernie would admit it, but I would if there was a pressure either from Abe, or the preceived pressure from the fan base to resign Gil to that contract.

And wouldn't the chances of him playing a higher percentage of games increase if he wasn't coming off of multiple knee surgeries? Lots not pretend that him missing time was some unforeseen event.

[Orioles4Life]

And wouldn't the chances of him playing a higher percentage of games increase if he wasn't coming off of multiple knee surgeries? Lots not pretend that him missing time was some unforeseen event.

If I recall correctly the assumption was that Gil would be back no later than December or January.. but of course he didnt make it back until the end of the season. Maybe his delay was a surprise or maybe they knew, either way, we can agree that IF Gil doesnt come back to that all-star level, his contract will doom the team for the next 5 years.

[isestrex]

If I recall correctly the assumption was that Gil would be back no later than December or January.. but of course he didnt make it back until the end of the season. Maybe his delay was a surprise or maybe they knew, either way, we can agree that IF Gil doesnt come back to that all-star level, his contract will doom the team for the next 5 years.

Right after the contract was inked, all the local media had one question for Ernie: "Is Gilbert healthy enough to start the season?" Ernie said he was 100% sure that Gilbert was completely healthy and ready to go.

Whether he was lying or whether Gilbert fooled us all is unknown.

[Dr. FLK]

Right after the contract was inked, all the local media had one question for Ernie: "Is Gilbert healthy enough to start the season?" Ernie said he was 100% sure that Gilbert was completely healthy and ready to go.

Whether he was lying or whether Gilbert fooled us all is unknown.

What is he supposed to say? Even if he thought he was 100% at the time, he had to know the risks going forward. It's just never a good idea to ink a guard leaving his prime to a long term deal after his 3rd (or was it his 4th) knee surgery. It might have come back to bite him sooner than he thought, but it was a bad idea from the start. It's not like there were a lot of other teams with competitive bids...

[isestrex]

What is he supposed to say? Even if he thought he was 100% at the time, he had to know the risks going forward. It's just never a good idea to ink a guard leaving his prime to a long term deal after his 3rd (or was it his 4th) knee surgery. It might have come back to bite him sooner than he thought, but it was a bad idea from the start. It's not like there were a lot of other teams with competitive bids...

Like I said in another post, this was not Ernie's decision. It was Abe's. Abe put a ton of pressure on Ernie to resign Gilbert and compete with the pieces he had. Abe's not interested in anything resembling "blowing up the team" to build a stronger foundation. He wants to win now and he told Ernie to sign Gilbert at all costs. Gil was a real pal and proved his loyalty to Abe by taking a "discount".

[Dr. FLK]

Like I said in another post, this was not Ernie's decision. It was Abe's. Abe put a ton of pressure on Ernie to resign Gilbert and compete with the pieces he had. Abe's not interested in anything resembling "blowing up the team" to build a stronger foundation. He wants to win now and he told Ernie to sign Gilbert at all costs. Gil was a real pal and proved his loyalty to Abe by taking a "discount".

So when it's a good move, we give Ernie credit. When it's a bad move, it's on Abe? :D

[isestrex]

So when it's a good move, we give Ernie credit. When it's a bad move, it's on Abe? :D

In this situation, yes :D

[Floater]

Without a true big man at the 4, this team will NEVER contend past the second round of the playoffs.

Lets look at past champions, each have had a dominant 4 or at least some sort of dominating big man
Lakers: Gasol
Celtics: KG
Spurs: Duncan
Heat: Shaq
Spurs: Duncan
Pistons: Rasheed (Debatable)
Spurs: Duncan
Lakers: Shaq
Lakers: Shaq
Lakers: Shaq
Spurs: Duncan

The list goes on with Olajuwon a few years before that and of course the one exception...that Jordan character.

[isestrex]

Without a true big man at the 4, this team will NEVER contend past the second round of the playoffs.

Lets look at past champions, each have had a dominant 4 or at least some sort of dominating big man
Lakers: Gasol
Celtics: KG
Spurs: Duncan
Heat: Shaq
Spurs: Duncan
Pistons: Rasheed (Debatable)
Spurs: Duncan
Lakers: Shaq
Lakers: Shaq
Lakers: Shaq
Spurs: Duncan

The list goes on with Olajuwon a few years before that and of course the one exception...that Jordan character.


In principle I agree with you but what would you have the Wizards do? Do you realize what Jamison means to the organization?

First, he never misses time, playing nearly every game every season. For a franchise that has seen EVERYONE and the mascot miss significant time every year, that's huge.
Second, he's the leader and captain of the team. Gil may be the most talented player in the bunch but even he looks upon Jamison as an uncle as it was Jamison that put Gil under his wing as a rookie in Golden State. When he does miss time, it's extremely noticeable on the court. He's their leader.
Third, he's one of only a handful of players that puts up 20-10 (or even 18-9) year in and year out.

Do you realize how valuable he is?

Jamison is an enigma. I agree with you that he's not a true PF and this team badly needs presence down low. But what do you do with Jamison? He's worth more to this team than you think. You can't just chuck him off to the side, add an Elton Brand/Paul Millsap/Pau Gasol, and think Jamison will not be missed.

This is why it's so important that McGee really develops into something special and why it's so disappointing to see Blatche with his head in the clouds wanting to go around jump shooting the other team to death instead of working out down low.

[Floater]

I wouldn't want to get rid of Jamison. He would be the perfect player off the bench to start the game and playing at the end. I would love to keep the big 3 in tact and somehow get a dominant 4 but it isn't likely. The Wiz are in a tough position to contend right now. Although, I'd love to see a fully healthy team again in the playoffs, with the right matchups, they COULD make it past the second round but I don't see it happening. But yes, we do need to see McGee make the jump to the next level, hopefully in the next 2-3 years and give this team a chance to win a championship. I hope he hit the weight room during the offseason.

[isestrex]

Sadly, the money Jamison is making prohibits him from coming off the bench. Not because he "deserves to start" or anything like that, but because his $$ is eating up cap room for what we would spend for a solid #4. He's it. From a budgetary mindset, Jamison MUST be a starter.

The only way for it to make sense of him coming off the bench would be if Haywood put up 15-12 and Blatche was putting up 22-9. Then, from a budget standpoint, our #4-#5 would be set under our current cap space and we could justify bringing Jamison off the bench.


...but I don't see that happening.