I am not a Dave Trembley fan...

[Sports Guy]

...but boy do I want to be.

I love this guys attitude...Was just watching the Orioles 30/30 show on MLBN and he is such a likable guy and he genuinely really cares about these players and this organization.

I don't feel he is creative enough with the lineups and drives too many regulars into the ground...and some of his philosophies I really disagree with but if he can be a better manager because his players are better, I really would like to see him here for a long time.

[Orange King]

...but boy do I want to be.

I love this guys attitude...I don't feel he is creative enough with the lineups and drives too many regulars into the ground...... I really would like to see him here for a long time.

His lack of "creativity" is what defines him. He's a career minor league manager who fluked his way to the major leagues and is destined to be a second tier manager for as long as he's here, absent a great lineup (which we don't have)

What's worse, with the pressure on this year to get to .500, I think he's going to turn taciturn somewhere around June or so, and the ending of his time here will not be pretty. Alas.

[Mackus]

...but boy do I want to be.

I love this guys attitude...Was just watching the Orioles 30/30 show on MLBN and he is such a likable guy and he genuinely really cares about these players and this organization.

I don't feel he is creative enough with the lineups and drives too many regulars into the ground...and some of his philosophies I really disagree with but if he can be a better manager because his players are better, I really would like to see him here for a long time.I don't love a lot of his tactical moves, but the tactical moves of a manager are really overrated, IMO, and I think the "mental" things and how a manager gets his players to play and, more importantly, prepare for the games may be underrated.

I could listen to him talk about baseball for hours on end. His press conferences after games, especially big wins, are tremendous.

[tennOsfan]

I don't love a lot of his tactical moves, but the tactical moves of a manager are really overrated, IMO, and I think the "mental" things and how a manager gets his players to play and, more importantly, prepare for the games may be underrated.

I could listen to him talk about baseball for hours on end. His press conferences after games, especially big wins, are tremendous.

I agree with that first paragraph whole-heartedly. Over the course of 162 games, I think it's more important that you maintain your team's motivation than make the perfect tactical decisions.

[RShack]

His lack of "creativity" is what defines him.
Which makes him different than other big league managers how?
When it comes to decision making, it seems to me that they mostly get in line and say "Mooo."

[LookinUp]

His lack of "creativity" is what defines him. He's a career minor league manager who fluked his way to the major leagues and is destined to be a second tier manager for as long as he's here, absent a great lineup (which we don't have)

What's worse, with the pressure on this year to get to .500, I think he's going to turn taciturn somewhere around June or so, and the ending of his time here will not be pretty. Alas.

I'm not sure why this is worse. If we don't get to .500 or close, he's probably out of a job. It may not be fair, but he's getting his shot. If he's not the right guy for the job, 2010 is when we need to find that out. I don't want to be on the fence in April 2011.

[JTrea81]

He'd better start "dropping the hammer" on the defense, otherwise he's going to be facing a pink slip before the season ends.

MacPhail's words just weren't for the players today...

[Sports Guy]

Which makes him different than other big league managers how?
When it comes to decision making, it seems to me that they mostly get in line and say "Mooo."

Why should he get a pass because he is like a lot of other managers?

[ScottieBaseball]

...but boy do I want to be.

I love this guys attitude...Was just watching the Orioles 30/30 show on MLBN and he is such a likable guy and he genuinely really cares about these players and this organization.

I don't feel he is creative enough with the lineups and drives too many regulars into the ground...and some of his philosophies I really disagree with but if he can be a better manager because his players are better, I really would like to see him here for a long time.

Re: the bolded part above...he really does...it's not an act with him.

As far as his lineup creativity, managing the bullpen, and all the other things he's criticized here for...he'll get better. He's paying attention. The better players (as Rob points out) will certainly help.

2010 will tell a lot about the direction of this club, but I'm confident that it will also reveal that Dave is, in fact, the best and right man for the job.

[Orioles West]

I love the guy. I love the attitude and his infectious enthusiasm for the game. And while I don't think he has had a lot to work with, I do understand the aspirations of the front office to see some improvement on the field.

The on field decisions, the line-ups, all of those experiments that go wrong happen to every manager in the game. I think he is a bit sharper than some of his critics imply, and I don't think it is easy to win 'manager of the year' awards at any level.

All that said, the Birds need to show they can play an entire season, and not wilt in July and August. The record is not as important to me as the effort. There has to be some evidence the team will perform at their most capable level through those adverse days that face every team in the AL East.

I hope DT passes this test, and hope to see him be at the helm for years to come. He really has done the job he was initially hired to do, and I'm pulling for him to take his game, and the team, to the next level.


-Don

[Big Mac]

He'd better start "dropping the hammer" on the defense, otherwise he's going to be facing a pink slip before the season ends.

MacPhail's words just weren't for the players today...

Are you really complaining about defensive miscues a week into spring training?

[JTrea81]

Are you really complaining about defensive miscues a week into spring training?

I'm just pointing out MacPhail is not pleased...


"I don't like to lose games in spring training," he said. "More importantly than that, we have to tighten up the defense. You can't play defense like that. That probably concerns me more than the won-loss record. Poor Alberto Castillo had to get eight outs that inning. That's got to tighten up."

[Big Mac]

I'm just pointing out MacPhail is not pleased...

Hadn't seen that quote, thanks for pointing it out.

[El Gordo]

I'm just pointing out MacPhail is not pleased...The people committing those miscues behind poor Castillo were Mil players who will not likely be on the team OD. I hardly think DT can be held responsible for their errors having only been managing them for a few weeks. As bad as some people think he is he couldn't have that big an influence. Creative managing is highly over rated. What matters most is gaining the respect of the players and motivating them to play as a team, instead of for themselves and a bigger future paycheck. All managers talk about fundamentals and doing the little things to win ballgames. The good managers actually get their players to do those things.

[byrdz]

I'm just pointing out MacPhail is not pleased...

It's still early but I like that he said that. Sounds like he'll be holding the players more accountable than last season. Glad to hear it!

[Dipper9]

He'd better start "dropping the hammer" on the defense, otherwise he's going to be facing a pink slip before the season ends.

MacPhail's words just weren't for the players today...

I was thinking the same thing when I read this yesterday. The final spring training record may not be important, but the on field product better be good, and thus far, MacPhail is not impressed. Six straight losses, even in ST, is not a good sign.

[crowmst3k!]

I'm not sure "dropping the hammer" would be the right reaction to yesterday's game. Josh Bell is almost certainly going to spend his 2010 in Norfolk, hopefully fine tuning his defense. I'm sure that Josh learned from his mistakes yesterday and will continue to work and correct whatever was problematic with his defense both with the MLB staff at spring training, and with coaches at Norfolk.

Furthermore, I could really care less about the spring training W/L record so far. In May, I wont even remember the final ST record.

[Kevin Lomax]

His lack of "creativity" is what defines him. He's a career minor league manager who fluked his way to the major leagues and is destined to be a second tier manager for as long as he's here, absent a great lineup (which we don't have)

What's worse, with the pressure on this year to get to .500, I think he's going to turn taciturn somewhere around June or so, and the ending of his time here will not be pretty. Alas.

I'm a little late to this party but allow me to propose a counter point to the part in bold.

From the O's website:


...won two league titles and earned Manager of the Year awards in three leagues in 20 years managing in the minors.

[DrungoHazewood]

He'd better start "dropping the hammer" on the defense, otherwise he's going to be facing a pink slip before the season ends.

MacPhail's words just weren't for the players today...

Talk about fitting the facts to the conclusion... Ever since Trembley was re-upped for 2010 you've been predicting he's going to be one of the first managers to get fired. So naturally you'd suggest that a bad game early in spring training would lead to his firing if he doesn't overreact and rip into the team.

Only you would interpret MacPhail's quote, which really was something like "the defense let us down, but we'll tighten that up, it's only spring training" as "that joker Trembley is out on his butt if he doesn't crack down, and hard."

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm a little late to this party but allow me to propose a counter point to the part in bold.

From the O's website:

Clearly Trembley didn't fluke his way to a major league managing job. He got the job because he was a highly-respected minor league manager with a good track record with young players and a no-nonsense attitude, and the O's were/are a rebuilding team with lots of young players and had a clubhouse where the inmates ran the asylum.

I don't like interim managers getting the permanent job, in general, but he had a good resume and the right temperment. The only fluke about it was that he was in the right organization at the right time.

[Tony-OH]

Talk about fitting the facts to the conclusion... Ever since Trembley was re-upped for 2010 you've been predicting he's going to be one of the first managers to get fired. So naturally you'd suggest that a bad game early in spring training would lead to his firing if he doesn't overreact and rip into the team.

Only you would interpret MacPhail's quote, which really was something like "the defense let us down, but we'll tighten that up, it's only spring training" as "that joker Trembley is out on his butt if he doesn't crack down, and hard."

I just ignore the stupid anti-Trembley threads because the same cast of characters make up their same ridiculous arguments over and over again.

I'm pretty sure we know the posters that can twist any quote, and I mean any quote into something that can support their same agenda.

It's comical that some people would have any concern (besides injuries) during spring training especially on defense where the errors have been by minor league guys for the most part. If the Orioles had won six straight, I sure wouldn't be getting my plans in order for this October.

The only way Trembley gets fired this year is if the team completely tanks and the clubhouse turns against him. No one can survive four poor seasons regardless of the "plan."

So yes, winning does matter this year for Trembley and I'm as optimistic about this team now as I was when the team opened camp and the only way my optimism will drop is if Roberts' injury ends up worse than being let on.

[Tony-OH]

I'm a little late to this party but allow me to propose a counter point to the part in bold.

From the O's website:

Don't allow facts to get in the way of the haters.

[Dr. FLK]

...but boy do I want to be.

I love this guys attitude...Was just watching the Orioles 30/30 show on MLBN and he is such a likable guy and he genuinely really cares about these players and this organization.

I don't feel he is creative enough with the lineups and drives too many regulars into the ground...and some of his philosophies I really disagree with but if he can be a better manager because his players are better, I really would like to see him here for a long time.

IMO, these things will improve as the quality of his overall roster depth improves. I mean, how flexible can you be with your lineups when you only have 4-6 ML starters on the roster?

[Dipper9]

I just ignore the stupid anti-Trembley threads because the same cast of characters make up their same ridiculous arguments over and over again.

I'm pretty sure we know the posters that can twist any quote, and I mean any quote into something that can support their same agenda.

It's comical that some people would have any concern (besides injuries) during spring training especially on defense where the errors have been by minor league guys for the most part. If the Orioles had won six straight, I sure wouldn't be getting my plans in order for this October.

The only way Trembley gets fired this year is if the team completely tanks and the clubhouse turns against him. No one can survive four poor seasons regardless of the "plan."

So yes, winning does matter this year for Trembley and I'm as optimistic about this team now as I was when the team opened camp and the only way my optimism will drop is if Roberts' injury ends up worse than being let on.


This is my biggest concern as well. A Roberts injury where he loses significant time will derail the direction of this team.

[Dr. FLK]

This is my biggest concern as well. A Roberts injury where he loses significant time will derail the direction of this team.

Since the current "direction" of the team is slow and steady "climb" towards 4th place...maybe a derailment is just what they need? ;)

[Frobby]

The opening post explains exactly why I AM a Dave Trembley fan. He has so many traits that make me want him to remain our manager.

That said, this is a year to judge DT strictly. Significant W/L improvement, no September collapse, good use of the bench.

[Dr. FLK]

The opening post explains exactly why I AM a Dave Trembley fan. He has so many traits that make me want him to remain our manager.

That said, this is a year to judge DT strictly. Significant W/L improvement, no September collapse, good use of the bench.

Well said. As the overall talent level increases, his use of the talent level must also increase to maximize the talent. It's tough to justify running out bench players when they aren't any good. But when you have competent players waiting for PT, you have to find the right times to use them so the team has the best chance of success. It should be a fun year.

[BRobinsonfan]

...but boy do I want to be.

I love this guys attitude...Was just watching the Orioles 30/30 show on MLBN and he is such a likable guy and he genuinely really cares about these players and this organization.

I don't feel he is creative enough with the lineups and drives too many regulars into the ground...and some of his philosophies I really disagree with but if he can be a better manager because his players are better, I really would like to see him here for a long time.

Yes. This is pretty much where I am on DT. I find myself pulling for him to be successful because of his wonderful attitude and his passion for the game and his devotion to the players and the organization.

[Who's On 1st]

...but boy do I want to be.

I love this guys attitude...Was just watching the Orioles 30/30 show on MLBN and he is such a likable guy and he genuinely really cares about these players and this organization.

I don't feel he is creative enough with the lineups and drives too many regulars into the ground...and some of his philosophies I really disagree with but if he can be a better manager because his players are better, I really would like to see him here for a long time.






Re: the bolded part above...he really does...it's not an act with him.

As far as his lineup creativity, managing the bullpen, and all the other things he's criticized here for...he'll get better. He's paying attention. The better players (as Rob points out) will certainly help.

2010 will tell a lot about the direction of this club, but I'm confident that it will also reveal that Dave is, in fact, the best and right man for the job.


I just ignore the stupid anti-Trembley threads because the same cast of characters make up their same ridiculous arguments over and over again.

I'm pretty sure we know the posters that can twist any quote, and I mean any quote into something that can support their same agenda.

It's comical that some people would have any concern (besides injuries) during spring training especially on defense where the errors have been by minor league guys for the most part. If the Orioles had won six straight, I sure wouldn't be getting my plans in order for this October.

The only way Trembley gets fired this year is if the team completely tanks and the clubhouse turns against him. No one can survive four poor seasons regardless of the "plan."

So yes, winning does matter this year for Trembley and I'm as optimistic about this team now as I was when the team opened camp and the only way my optimism will drop is if Roberts' injury ends up worse than being let on.


The opening post explains exactly why I AM a Dave Trembley fan. He has so many traits that make me want him to remain our manager.

That said, this is a year to judge DT strictly. Significant W/L improvement, no September collapse, good use of the bench.

I agree, I think Trembley will turn this around! I love the guy, he has a great love of the game and the players.

[rochester]

...but boy do I want to be.

I love this guys attitude...Was just watching the Orioles 30/30 show on MLBN and he is such a likable guy and he genuinely really cares about these players and this organization.

I don't feel he is creative enough with the lineups and drives too many regulars into the ground...and some of his philosophies I really disagree with but if he can be a better manager because his players are better, I really would like to see him here for a long time.

Yea, I think my problem is that I would be ecstatic to see him stay and win and grow into the position - it clouds my judgment because I do wince when I see him get trashed - whether I think it is meritorious or not. Maybe he hasn't been around the organization for decades but his attitude would fit in with the Oriole-way IMO.

[ScottieBaseball]

I'm a little late to this party but allow me to propose a counter point to the part in bold.

From the O's website:

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! ESH FTW? :D

Seriously...talk to the guy for a minute and it's obvious he didn't fluke his way to anything. Bachelor's degree in Physical Education, Master's degree in Education, taught (and coached baseball in) high school for three years before being hired as an area scout for the Cubs in '84, bumped up to manage their Appalachian League team in '85, and he's been a manager at one level or another every season since.

"Fluke"....pssssh.

[Slappy]

I don't have any problem with Trembley, but it's telling that MacPhail is the one "dropping the hammer". I don't disagree with Trea on this one.

[ScottieBaseball]

I don't have any problem with Trembley, but it's telling that MacPhail is the one "dropping the hammer". I don't disagree with Trea on this one.

What makes you sure Trembley's not "dropping the hammer" himself? Just because he's not on the record saying it doesn't mean it wasn't said. I mean...is Spring Training really the time and place to "drop the hammer" on a third base prospect who's never played higher than AA?

[Dipper9]

What makes you sure Trembley's not "dropping the hammer" himself? Just because he's not on the record saying it doesn't mean it wasn't said. I mean...is Spring Training really the time and place to "drop the hammer" on a third base prospect who's never played higher than AA?

Come on Scottie, you should know the OH community better than anyone.

Game 1: Bell has two homers. OH calls for Bell to start and for Tejada to move back to short.

Game 7: Bell has two errors. OH calls for Trembley to drop the hammer and Bell is destined for the minors forrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrever!

:laughlol:

[Dr. FLK]

What makes you sure Trembley's not "dropping the hammer" himself? Just because he's not on the record saying it doesn't mean it wasn't said. I mean...is Spring Training really the time and place to "drop the hammer" on a third base prospect who's never played higher than AA?

What exactly do we mean by "dropping the hammer"?

<img src="http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/197302hammerglue.jpg">

[Dr. FLK]

Come on Scottie, you should know the OH community better than anyone.

Game 1: Bell has two homers. OH calls for Bell to start and for Tejada to move back to short.

Game 7: Bell has two errors. OH calls for Trembley to drop the hammer and Bell is destined for the minors forrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrever!

:laughlol:

But the real question is...after his illustrious 7 game career, where does Bell rank on our all-time 3B list?

[ScottieBaseball]

But the real question is...after his illustrious 7 game career, where does Bell rank on our all-time 3B list?

Can we at least wait until Bell's third week of MLB spring training EVER to evaluate his standing on the O's all-time list?

[Dipper9]

Can we at least wait until Bell's third week of MLB spring training EVER to evaluate his standing on the O's all-time list?

Coming soon to the OH...Larry breaks down the top ten reasons why Bell will rank number 6 on the Orioles all time third baseman list! :clap3:

[Dr. FLK]

Can we at least wait until Bell's third week of MLB spring training EVER to evaluate his standing on the O's all-time list?

After committing 2 errors in his last game, do you really think we should let him play 3B anymore? ;)

[Sports Guy]

After committing 2 errors in his last game, do you really think we should let him play 3B anymore? ;)

Nah...It means he needs to give up switch hitting of course!

[Dipper9]

Nah...It means he needs to give up switch hitting of course!

I thought it meant they were gonna move him to first base! :scratchchinhmm:

[JTrea81]

I mean...is Spring Training really the time and place to "drop the hammer" on a third base prospect who's never played higher than AA?

Yes it is. Bell needs to understand that he is the heir apparent at 3B but he's not going to just be handed a job. If he can't play defense, he's not going to be able to be a ML third baseman.

Unless he wants to switch to 1B or be a DH or be stuck in the minors behind Tejada at 3B, he has to play better.

The message needs to be sent as early as possible. To be a Baltimore Oriole, you are going to have to earn it, and you will not make the team or get a callup just because you're a top prospect with hype.

[PaulFolk]

Yes it is. Bell needs to understand that he is the heir apparent at 3B but he's not going to just be handed a job. If he can't play defense, he's not going to be able to be a ML third baseman.

Unless he wants to switch to 1B or be a DH or be stuck in the minors behind Tejada at 3B, he has to play better.

The message needs to be sent as early as possible. To be a Baltimore Oriole, you are going to have to earn it, and you will not make the team just because you're a top prospect with hype.
This post is a joke, right?

Your argument is that Trembley should drop the hammer and tell Josh Bell to, in your words, "play better"?

Because Josh Bell doesn't understand that playing defense is a useful skill for a major-league third baseman to have?

Please tell me this post was a joke.

[Dipper9]

Yes it is. Bell needs to understand that he is the heir apparent at 3B but he's not going to just be handed a job. If he can't play defense, he's not going to be able to be a ML third baseman.

Unless he wants to switch to 1B or be a DH or be stuck in the minors behind Tejada at 3B, he has to play better.

The message needs to be sent as early as possible. To be a Baltimore Oriole, you are going to have to earn it, and you will not make the team or get a callup just because you're a top prospect with hype.


This post is a joke, right?

Your argument is that Trembley should drop the hammer and tell Josh Bell to, in your words, "play better"?

Because Josh Bell doesn't understand that playing defense is a useful skill for a major-league third baseman to have?

Please tell me this post was a joke.

And apparantly the fact that we signed Tejada means we are just handing the job to Bell? :rolleyes:

Trea, you are becoming a mockery of even yourself! Stop the insanity!

[JTrea81]

This post is a joke, right?

Your argument is that Trembley should drop the hammer and tell Josh Bell to, in your words, "play better"?

Because Josh Bell doesn't understand that playing defense is a useful skill for a major-league third baseman to have?

Please tell me this post was a joke.

Because Bell needs to be told that his prospect hype will not punch his ticket to the majors, like say Pie's did for the Orioles. Defensive lapses like that are unacceptable at the ML level. The team is not going to hand out roster spots like it has in the past. Rebuilding is done with.

That is the message that is being broadcast so the team has to back that up with action.

[JTrea81]

And apparantly the fact that we signed Tejada means we are just handing the job to Bell? :rolleyes:

Trea, you are becoming a mockery of even yourself! Stop the insanity!

The team has gone out of it's way to say that Tejada and Atkins are mearly placeholders for Snyder and Bell, so yes, there might be a little complacency in there.

This is the time to stop that completely if it exists.

[RShack]

Yes it is. Bell needs to understand that he is the heir apparent at 3B but he's not going to just be handed a job. If he can't play defense, he's not going to be able to be a ML third baseman.

Unless he wants to switch to 1B or be a DH or be stuck in the minors behind Tejada at 3B, he has to play better.

The message needs to be sent as early as possible. To be a Baltimore Oriole, you are going to have to earn it, and you will not make the team or get a callup just because you're a top prospect with hype.
It's a bit ironic that the one guy around here who is big on urging instant punishment for mistakes is the very same guy who is tied for the lead around here for making mistakes in judgment. You and one other guy make more mistakes than everybody else combined. But somehow you think nobody should bring the hammer down on you.

As for the matter at hand, if you think AM saying he doesn't like to see sloppy baseball in ST is "bringing down the hammer", well, I don't know what to tell you. And if they did "bring down the hammer" by benching guys in ST who haven't played baseball for months, well, that would be stupid beyond belief.

[Dipper9]

The team has gone out of it's way to say that Tejada and Atkins are mearly placeholders for Snyder and Bell, so yes, there might be a little complacency in there.

This is the time to stop that completely if it exists.

So you think if Bell plays like (poo) in Norfolk and Tejada adjusts well to third, that they will overlook everything and bring Bell up anyway?

Did the Orioles allow Pie to keep on playing like (poo) last year when he was handed the left field job, or did they bring up Montanez and then Reimold to take the job, thus forcing Pie to refocus?

You make up these ridiculous thoughts and then SWEAR they are facts.

[PaulFolk]

Because Bell needs to be told that his prospect hype will not punch his ticket to the majors, like say Pie's did for the Orioles. Defensive lapses like that are unacceptable at the ML level. The team is not going to hand out roster spots like it has in the past. Rebuilding is done with..
What on earth gives you the impression that Bell believes this? Has Bell ever said anything remotely similar to "I figure I have a major-league job waiting for me, so I'll just go through the motions until they call me up."? Do you have a quote? A link? Anything at all to base this on?

You seem to have the impression that Bell is a lazy, apathetic prospect who doesn't want to work hard unless someone tells him to. And you've held the same opinion about other players as well.

Honestly, I've rarely seen such a die-hard baseball fan have such a fundamental misunderstanding of almost everything about the game and its players.

[JTrea81]

It's a bit ironic that the one guy around here who is big on urging instant punishment for mistakes is the very same guy who is tied for the lead around here for making mistakes in judgment. You and one other guy make more mistakes than everybody else combined. But somehow you think nobody should bring the hammer down on you.

As for the matter at hand, if you think AM saying he doesn't like to see sloppy baseball in ST is "bringing down the hammer", well, I don't know what to tell you. And if they did "bring down the hammer" by benching guys in ST who haven't played baseball for months, well, that would be stupid beyond belief.

I'm not going to be paid millions of dollars to post on this website.

And I'm not saying bringing the hammer down has to mean benching. But Bell needs to be held accountable for his poor performance and told that kind of play is not acceptable for a ML thirdbaseman. That's all.

MacPhail pretty much did that without saying it, and I would hope Trembley would say or do something more directly to enforce it.

[Tony-OH]

Because Bell needs to be told that his prospect hype will not punch his ticket to the majors, like say Pie's did for the Orioles. Defensive lapses like that are unacceptable at the ML level. The team is not going to hand out roster spots like it has in the past. Rebuilding is done with.

That is the message that is being broadcast so the team has to back that up with action.

I've decided to add :wedge: mentally at the end of every one of your posts on the Orioles and minor league boards. It's the easiest way to just giggle instead of getting annoyed.

Fire Trembley right away! I mean, he didn't chew out a kid for making two physical errors. Surely he needs to be reminded that he's not a big leaguer yet and surely he made those errors because his head is so big and he thinks everything will be handed to him. :rolleyestf:

Hold on, let me try this out:

Jtrea "Because Bell needs to be told that his prospect hype will not punch his ticket to the majors" :wedge:

I feel better already.

[tvz1997]

Hey Josh, welcome to your first big league camp with the Os. Just one thing:

http://www.reelcollectibles.co.nz/images/acme/star_wars/star_wars_acme_failure_will_not_be_tolerated_gicle e.jpg:cussing::angryfire::cussing::angryfire::cuss ing:

[JTrea81]

What on earth gives you the impression that Bell believes this? Has Bell ever said anything remotely similar to "I figure I have a major-league job waiting for me, so I'll just go through the motions until they call me up."? Do you have a quote? A link? Anything at all to base this on?

You seem to have the impression that Bell is a lazy, apathetic prospect who doesn't want to work hard unless someone tells him to. And you've held the same opinion about other players as well.

Honestly, I've rarely seen such a die-hard baseball fan have such a fundamental misunderstanding of almost everything about the game and its players.

What I am saying is Bell may know that he has to work hard to get to the majors. But he is the most attractive option at 3B for the Orioles after this season, and they did trade one of their most valuable commodities to get him.

So in the back of his mind, there might be some complacency there IMO.

The team has talked him up, so he might have started to buy into his hype a little. I'm not saying he has, but if that's the case, this is the time to stop that.

You are blowing things out of proportion. Bell is a 23 year old kid getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and is only a step away from the majors. It's hardly shocking to think he might have a bit of an ego or might be a little complacent given his hype by the team.

I know we like to idealize Oriole ballplayers, especially prospects, but these guys are still human.

[waroriole]

Trying to ignore the nonsense by the same person: I think DT is awesome. He seems like a great guy, with great baseball knowledge and is easy to get along with as a player. Hopefully, guys start to play better under him, b/c I think he gets the respect of almost everyone. As far as his in game management, there are certain things that I disagree with him about, but that could be said for anyone we brought in, including Cal:eektf:.

[DrungoHazewood]

What I am saying is Bell may know that he has to work hard to get to the majors. But he is the most attractive option at 3B for the Orioles after this season, and they did trade one of their most valuable commodities to get him.

So in the back of his mind, there might be some complacency there IMO.

The team has talked him up, so he might have started to buy into his hype a little. I'm not saying he has, but if that's the case, this is the time to stop that.

We have absolutely, positively no evidence to suggest that Josh Bell is anything but a hard worker doing his level best to be as good as possible, but if he is a slack-off expecting the world to be handed to him on a platter that needs to stop, posthaste.

:rolleyes:

[DrungoHazewood]

You are blowing things out of proportion. Bell is a 23 year old kid getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and is only a step away from the majors. It's hardly shocking to think he might have a bit of an ego or might be a little complacent given his hype by the team.

I know we like to idealize Oriole ballplayers, especially prospects, but these guys are still human.

You're editing so fast I can't keep up. Maybe if I wait long enough you'll actually inject a little sense and logic into your "arguments".

[PaulFolk]

What I am saying is Bell may know that he has to work hard to get to the majors. But he is the most attractive option at 3B for the Orioles after this season, and they did trade one of their most valuable commodities to get him.

So in the back of his mind, there might be some complacency there IMO.

The team has talked him up, so he might have started to buy into his hype a little. I'm not saying he has, but if that's the case, this is the time to stop that.
Again...any quote? Any link? Anything to back this up? Your entire body of evidence that Josh Bell is complacent is that he committed a couple of errors yesterday. That's your argument.

You know, Cal Ripken went 0-for-2 in his major-league debut. I sure hope his manager dropped the hammer and told him to get his head out of his butt. These prospects and their inflated egos!

[Frobby]

Yes it is. Bell needs to understand that he is the heir apparent at 3B but he's not going to just be handed a job. If he can't play defense, he's not going to be able to be a ML third baseman.

Unless he wants to switch to 1B or be a DH or be stuck in the minors behind Tejada at 3B, he has to play better.

The message needs to be sent as early as possible. To be a Baltimore Oriole, you are going to have to earn it, and you will not make the team or get a callup just because you're a top prospect with hype.

I think these guys know that they aren't going to get to the majors by playing lousy defense. No need to send that message, it is very obvious.

[JTrea81]

We have absolutely, positively no evidence to suggest that Josh Bell is anything but a hard worker doing his level best to be as good as possible, but if he is a slack-off expecting the world to be handed to him on a platter that needs to stop, posthaste.

:rolleyes:

You are over-exaggerating again.

I am not saying Bell is a slack off, but he's a 23 year old professional ballplayer who has money in the bank and a ton of hype by his club. To think there is absolutely no shred of ego, or no sense of entitlement at all in this kid's mind is pretty naive IMO.

[Sports Guy]

What I am saying is Bell may know that he has to work hard to get to the majors. But he is the most attractive option at 3B for the Orioles after this season, and they did trade one of their most valuable commodities to get him.

So in the back of his mind, there might be some complacency there IMO.

The team has talked him up, so he might have started to buy into his hype a little. I'm not saying he has, but if that's the case, this is the time to stop that.

You are blowing things out of proportion. Bell is a 23 year old kid getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and is only a step away from the majors. It's hardly shocking to think he might have a bit of an ego or might be a little complacent given his hype by the team.

I know we like to idealize Oriole ballplayers, especially prospects, but these guys are still human.

Had we given Holliday 140 million, how do we know that he wouldn't have gotten his big pay day, gotten complacent and not been good at all?

[JTrea81]

I think these guys know that they aren't going to get to the majors by playing lousy defense. No need to send that message, it is very obvious.

Maybe it's not, and that is the problem. Maybe these guys think they can get away with things because it's "just Spring Training."

MacPhail has already delivered the message that performance, especially defensive performance in ST matters, and Trembley needs to back that up.

[Sports Guy]

You are over-exaggerating again.

I am not saying Bell is a slack off, but he's a 23 year old professional ballplayer who has money in the bank and a ton of hype by his club. To think there is absolutely no shred of ego, or no sense of entitlement at all in this kid's mind is pretty naive IMO.

How much money does he have in the bank? Does he even have enough for a really good down payment on a house?

I bet he would like to be a MLer and have a ton more money.

[RShack]

You are over-exaggerating again.
Quote of the day...

[Sports Guy]

Quote of the year...

Sorry shack, I had to change your post.

[tvz1997]

You are over-exaggerating again. :wedge:


Dang, Tony, you're right! :D

[RVAbird]

You are blowing things out of proportion.


these guys are still human.



You are blowing things out of proportion.


these guys are still human.



You are blowing things out of proportion.


these guys are still human.

:awesome::awesome::awesome:

No words.

[waroriole]

You are over-exaggerating again.


"It's like rain on your wedding day. A free ride when you've already paid. It's the good advice that you just didn't take."

[JTrea81]

Had we given Holliday 140 million, how do we know that he wouldn't have gotten his big pay day, gotten complacent and not been good at all?

Well he might of, and then I'd expect Trembley to drop the hammer on him just like he would a 23 year old.

There should be no difference. Any player that is trying to be a major leaguer needs to be held to a certain standard of performance regardless of status or hype.

[DrungoHazewood]

You are over-exaggerating again.

I am not saying Bell is a slack off, but he's a 23 year old professional ballplayer who has money in the bank and a ton of hype by his club. To think there is absolutely no shred of ego, or no sense of entitlement at all in this kid's mind is pretty naive IMO.

It's mind-blowing that a two-error game on March 9th has become a diatribe about Josh Bell being an overhyped prospect hung up on his own ego who needs to have "the hammer dropped on him." Mind-blowing that a rational human being who's actually watched and studied baseball for more than three seconds could suggest this kind of crap.

This may be a new low even for you, and that's saying A LOT.

[waroriole]

This may be a new low even for you, and that's saying A LOT.

It's not quite as bad as yesterday's debacle. I would actually say it's par for the course.

[Tony-OH]

It's mind-blowing that a two-error game on March 9th has become a diatribe about Josh Bell being an overhyped prospect hung up on his own ego who needs to have "the hammer dropped on him." Mind-blowing that a rational human being who's actually watched and studied baseball for more than three seconds could suggest this kind of crap.

This may be a new low even for you, and that's saying A LOT.

Link? Source???? ;)

[JTrea81]

It's mind-blowing that a two-error game on March 9th has become a diatribe about Josh Bell being an overhyped prospect hung up on his own ego who needs to have "the hammer dropped on him." Mind-blowing that a rational human being who's actually watched and studied baseball for more than three seconds could suggest this kind of crap.

This may be a new low even for you, and that's saying A LOT.

Glad to see you haven't stopped blowing my points out of proportion to try to prove your point... :rolleyestf:

Nowhere have I suggested Josh Bell is an overhyped prospect hung up on his own ego. Not once.

[Sports Guy]

Well Josh Bell was acquired by AM, so obviously he isn't any good.

[Tony-OH]

Well Josh Bell was acquired by AM, so obviously he isn't any good.

This is all your fault anyways. You started this thread .. :D

[Frobby]

Errors so far: Blake Davis (2), Bell (2), Moeller (2), Wigginton, Abreu, Tejada. Kill them all!

Do you think Blake Davis knows he has to play good defense if he wants to have any prayer of ever making it to the major leagues? Put the hammer down on him!

[DrungoHazewood]

Yes it is. Bell needs to understand that he is the heir apparent at 3B but he's not going to just be handed a job. If he can't play defense, he's not going to be able to be a ML third baseman.

Unless he wants to switch to 1B or be a DH or be stuck in the minors behind Tejada at 3B, he has to play better.

The message needs to be sent as early as possible. To be a Baltimore Oriole, you are going to have to earn it, and you will not make the team or get a callup just because you're a top prospect with hype.


Because Bell needs to be told that his prospect hype will not punch his ticket to the majors, like say Pie's did for the Orioles. Defensive lapses like that are unacceptable at the ML level. The team is not going to hand out roster spots like it has in the past. Rebuilding is done with.

That is the message that is being broadcast so the team has to back that up with action.


The team has gone out of it's way to say that Tejada and Atkins are mearly placeholders for Snyder and Bell, so yes, there might be a little complacency in there.

This is the time to stop that completely if it exists.


I'm not going to be paid millions of dollars to post on this website.

And I'm not saying bringing the hammer down has to mean benching. But Bell needs to be held accountable for his poor performance and told that kind of play is not acceptable for a ML thirdbaseman. That's all.

MacPhail pretty much did that without saying it, and I would hope Trembley would say or do something more directly to enforce it.


What I am saying is Bell may know that he has to work hard to get to the majors. But he is the most attractive option at 3B for the Orioles after this season, and they did trade one of their most valuable commodities to get him.

So in the back of his mind, there might be some complacency there IMO.

The team has talked him up, so he might have started to buy into his hype a little. I'm not saying he has, but if that's the case, this is the time to stop that.

You are blowing things out of proportion. Bell is a 23 year old kid getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and is only a step away from the majors. It's hardly shocking to think he might have a bit of an ego or might be a little complacent given his hype by the team.


You are over-exaggerating again.

I am not saying Bell is a slack off, but he's a 23 year old professional ballplayer who has money in the bank and a ton of hype by his club. To think there is absolutely no shred of ego, or no sense of entitlement at all in this kid's mind is pretty naive IMO.


Maybe it's not, and that is the problem. Maybe these guys think they can get away with things because it's "just Spring Training."

MacPhail has already delivered the message that performance, especially defensive performance in ST matters, and Trembley needs to back that up.


Glad to see you haven't stopped blowing my points out of proportion to try to prove your point... :rolleyestf:

Nowhere have I suggested Josh Bell is an overhyped prospect hung up on his own ego. Not once.

No, not at all, never. I don't see how I could have come to the conclusion you think he's a complacent, overhyped prospect hung up on his own ego when you only mentioned the words "complacent", "hype" and/or "ego" in connection with Josh Bell in eight posts in this very thread about a two-error game in spring training.

[JTrea81]

Errors so far: Blake Davis (2), Bell (2), Moeller (2), Wigginton, Abreu, Tejada. Kill them all!

Do you think Blake Davis knows he has to play good defense if he wants to have any prayer of ever making it to the major leagues? Put the hammer down on him!

You are really exaggerating the meaning of the word "hammer."

Holding players accountable = "bringing the hammer down" IMO.

I'm not sure what it means to you, but that's what it means to me.

[JTrea81]

No, not at all, never. I don't see how I could have come to the conclusion you think he's a complacent, overhyped prospect hung up on his own ego when you only mentioned the words "complacent", "hype" and/or "ego" in connection with Josh Bell in eight posts in this very thread.

You need to take them in context. When you take them out of context like that it's easy to reach that conclusion.

I think your biased view of my posts in general has clouded your vision of what I am trying to say.

Because I am not intending to imply that Bell any of those things.

Just because a word is associated with a player doesn't mean that word defines him.

[Sports Guy]

This is all your fault anyways. You started this thread .. :D

If that is going to be how it is, I guess I get the blame for a lot of things around here. :D

[DrungoHazewood]

You are really exaggerating the meaning of the word "hammer."

Holding players accountable = "bringing the hammer down" IMO.

I'm not sure what it means to you, but that's what it means to me.

What do you mean by holding players accountable? What is the appropriate way to bring the hammer down on a prospect for making two physical errors in an early spring game?

[DrungoHazewood]

You need to take them in context. When you take them out of context like that it's easy to reach that conclusion.

I think your biased view of my posts in general has clouded your vision of what I am trying to say.

Because I am not intending to imply that Bell any of those things.

Just because a word is associated with a player doesn't mean that word defines him.

I think the biased views you espouse in your posts has clouded a lot of stuff.

[JTrea81]

What do you mean by holding players accountable? What is the appropriate way to bring the hammer down on a prospect for making two physical errors in an early spring game?

That's what Dave Trembley needs to figure out, whether it be forcing players to go through extra defensive reps, or having a one on one counseling session - whatever will make the player know that their performance is unacceptable and that they need to fix the problem.

Trembley said he was going to do it after his option was picked up. Defense is now a problem so it's time for him to live up to his word and hold players accountable for the lack of defense thus far.

[waroriole]

That's what Dave Trembley needs to figure out, whether it be forcing players to go through extra defensive reps, or having a one on one counseling session - whatever will work to fix the problem and make the player know that their performance is unacceptable.

Trembley said he was going to do it after his option was picked up. Defense is now a problem so it's time for him to live up to his word and hold players accountable for the lack of defense thus far.

And you know he's not doing this how? Are you down there in FL with the team, with access to the locker room?

[Moose Milligan]

<img src = "http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rUY6FFyfIjM/Sp8L4IllruI/AAAAAAAAC8M/lEXMeFx1DFg/s400/12322-17920.gif">

Thats all I have to say.

[JTrea81]

And you know he's not doing this how? Are you down there in FL with the team, with access to the locker room?

I never said he wasn't, just that he has to.

If he is doing it and the problems disappear, then everything's fine.

[PBR Street Gang]

On those plays in question:

1.) The throw was a routine grounder that he throw into the ground 10' short of Atkins who couldn't make the play. None on and one out and it spooked Arrieta and extended his inning.(6th inning)

2.) Davis got in the way of Bell on a slow roller and forced an awkward throw. That ball was Bell's all the way and Davis should have stayed away from it. Subsequently the runner on first winds up on third when Davis fails to cover the bag after Bell's throw. I think that one might have been ruled a hit but the play should have been made.
3.) Bell was kinda non-chalant about the throw after making a good backhand stop on a sharp grounder.
4.) On the next play it was a grounder he should have charged and the ball (and as often is the case) played him.

[Lucky Jim]

Just because a word is associated with a player doesn't mean that word defines him.

On the other hand, there are several words associated w/ you that pretty much sum you up.

[Frobby]

Here is what DT had to say:


Manager Dave Trembley said the team's multitude of errors this spring aren't for lack of practice, citing the 20 minutes a day that each player takes doing ground balls and extra individual defense work.

"Mistakes are part of the game, and today was an unfortunate game for [Bell]," Trembley said. "He had routine plays and didn't make them. I think the lesson to be learned is you have to make the routine plays, especially in Spring Training when you're counting pitches on your pitchers and trying to get those innings built up."

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100309&content_id=8732494&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal

Would you have wanted him to say more than that?

[Sports Guy]

I think every error should be met with a public stoning...That will definitely get the point across that this stuff won't be tolerated.

[Moose Milligan]

I think every error should be met with a public stoning...That will definitely get the point across that this stuff won't be tolerated.

And will help hold others accountable too, don't forget.

[RShack]

You need to take them in context. When you take them out of context like that it's easy to reach that conclusion.
Actually, he did not take them out of context. He included plenty of stuff that put them in context.



I think your biased view of my posts in general has clouded your vision of what I am trying to say.
Yet another quote of the day.

JTrea, you expect the worst of everybody who's associated with the Orioles. You routinely respond as if everybody's a goof-off slacker who's trying to see how much they can get away with. You think punishment is required for people to work at doing their job right. Now, maybe that's what your work ethic is, maybe that's how an employer needs to treat you. But you have zero basis for assuming that's how professional athletes approach their careers. Your idea of "holding them accountable" boils down to you posting a lot of nonsense that does nothing at all but annoy people here...

[CSB Jack]

SG - great original post. I agree with everything you said about DT, and I'd like to see him succeed because that also means that the Orioles succeed. For this year I would define that as .500 or better, which won't be easy, even with Roberts healthy all year. Whether he demonstrates that he is the right guy to manage the team beyond 2010 remains to be seen, but he does have a solid baseball pedigree.

JTrea - you have taken quite a pounding on this one, but I admire your Timex-like ability to take a licking and keep on ticking. I even agree with your central premise, that the manager should hold players accountable for how they play. I also agree with the idea that AM should hold DT accountable for how he manages his players, especially for how he gets them ready for each game and for the whole season.

However, I don't make the assumption that because DT is not screaming at players in the dugout or throwing them under the bus in press conferences that he is not speaking with them about expectations or doing his best to have them prepared for the situations they are facing. At some point it becomes the responsibility of each individual player to execute. What Bell is experiencing now is part of the learning process, and something he is sure to take with him to Norfolk this year.

Physical errors happen. Even Brooks made them. Willie Davis was an excellent defensive outfielder but he made three errors in one inning of a World Series game. No manager can prevent that, except by not putting guys in positions they are not capable of handling. It's when the players are making mistakes or errors from lack of preparation that managers are most responsible. When players are making mental errors or not playing smart or hard the manager especially needs to take prompt action. Exactly how the manager "drops the hammer" or "holds them accountable" in that situation is something that he can be judged on. It will be interesting to see how DT handles those kinds of issues this season.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think every error should be met with a public stoning...That will definitely get the point across that this stuff won't be tolerated.


And will help hold others accountable too, don't forget.

I think owners and managers should be given wide latitude to fine players, like Andrew Freedman did when he ran the Giants in the 1890s. He once fined Amos Rusie about 1/4 of his season salary for "not bearing down hard enough" in a season where he led the NL in strikeouts and shutouts and won 23 games for a 9th-place team.

If Bell got fined $100k for each error he'd get his act together quick! That's putting the hammer down!

[ledzepp8]

Glad to see you haven't stopped blowing my points out of proportion to try to prove your point... :rolleyestf:

Nowhere have I suggested Josh Bell is an overhyped prospect hung up on his own ego. Not once.

Nope, you just said that he could be and that we should just "drop the hammer" on him even if there's no need.

You just can't help making illogical arguments...it's like an addiction for you.

[RShack]

JTrea - you have taken quite a pounding on this one, but I admire your Timex-like ability to take a licking and keep on ticking. I even agree with your central premise, that the manager should hold players accountable for how they play. I also agree with the idea that AM should hold DT accountable for how he manages his players, especially for how he gets them ready for each game and for the whole season.

However, I don't make the assumption that because DT is not screaming at players in the dugout or throwing them under the bus in press conferences that he is not speaking with them about expectations or doing his best to have them prepared for the situations they are facing. At some point it becomes the responsibility of each individual player to execute. What Bell is experiencing now is part of the learning process, and something he is sure to take with him to Norfolk this year.

Physical errors happen. Even Brooks made them. Willie Davis was an excellent defensive outfielder but he made three errors in one inning of a World Series game. No manager can prevent that, except by not putting guys in positions they are not capable of handling. It's when the players are making mistakes or errors from lack of preparation that managers are most responsible. When players are making mental errors or not playing smart or hard the manager especially needs to take prompt action. Exactly how the manager "drops the hammer" or "holds them accountable" in that situation is something that he can be judged on. It will be interesting to see how DT handles those kinds of issues this season.
The only part of this that's gonna get through Trea's lead-lined mental force field is the first part. He's gonna take that part to heart, and think it's evidence that he's doing something noble. The rest of it is just gonna bounce off without making even a tiny dent.

[PBR Street Gang]

It's cool how it can be clearly open season on some posters. Is there a list somewhere of them so we won't be sanctioned if we somehow stumble and do it to the wrong "expert"?

[byrdz]

It's cool how it can be clearly open season on some posters. Is there a list somewhere of them so we won't be sanctioned if we somehow stumble and do it to the wrong "expert"?

No one is immuned from a good ole fashioned challenged as long as you operate within the rules. :) Silly statements tend to draw more attention, like bees to honey, white to rice, flys to....well, you get it.

BTW, Is your name a reference to Apocalypse Now?

"PBR Street gang, this is Almighty, do you copy"


.

[RShack]

It's cool how it can be clearly open season on some posters. Is there a list somewhere of them so we won't be sanctioned if we somehow stumble and do it to the wrong "expert"?
I'm guessing a hint would be when a thread gets derailed by one guy making a significant numbers of posts saying unfounded extremist stuff, and then, when faced with a slew of different folks who are trying to reason with him, doesn't give an inch about anything, and instead tells everybody else that they're biased. When you see that happening, it might be a clue...

Now, there are other folks you can give crap to without requiring them to make a big multi-post push that paints a bullseye on their forehead. I'm one of them, SG is another. While we have different online demeanors, we each have our own way of annoying others. I don't think anybody gets in trouble for giving crap to me or to him, which is fine. In contrast, nobody gives much crap to Dip, just because he's a nice guy, or to Frobby, who is pathologically fair and reasonable. Sometimes somebody will give crap to Moose, but that just shows that they're missing the point.

[PBR Street Gang]

Gotcha. ;)

[TinCup]

I'm guessing a hint would be when a thread gets derailed by one guy making a significant numbers of posts saying unfounded extremist stuff, and then, when faced with a slew of different folks who are trying to reason with him, doesn't give an inch about anything, and instead tells everybody else that they're biased. When you see that happening, it might be a clue...

Now, there are other folks you can give crap to without requiring them to make a big multi-post push that paints a bullseye on their forehead. I'm one of them, SG is another. While we have different online demeanors, we each have our own way of annoying others. I don't think anybody gets in trouble for giving crap to me or to him, which is fine. In contrast, nobody gives much crap to Dip, just because he's a nice guy, or to Frobby, who is pathologically fair and reasonable. Sometimes somebody will give crap to Moose, but that just shows that they're missing the point.

Well now, I gotta say this post of your's Shack is simply full of....well.... "crap".
:D;)

[ledzepp8]

Actually, he did not take them out of context. He included plenty of stuff that put them in context.




Yep, it's pretty bad to accuse someone of taking you out of context when they quote you word-for-word.

[vatech1994]

This thread seals the deal for me. When Tony, Paul, Scottie, Frobby, SG, Drungo, Shack, and Lucky Jim have all chimed in with a "you can't be serious" response to Trea yet he STILL thinks that everybody else is crazy, there is just nowhere to go with him. Honestly, think about it, he is a done deal. I'll bet you money in 25 years, he'll be just like O5F. He simply doesn't listen to others and he doesn't understand the impact of the very words that he himself writes.

This thread goes at the top of the mantle for me about Trea. Some of the most even tempered, logical, intelligent folks I've ever met are frustrated with him in this thread. Wow...

I agree with Tony. I'm adopting the :pain:
response to all his stuff that is outlandish from now on. The descriptor for that sign is "pain". I think that describes what I feel when I read his stuff as well as we can w/o crossing the line. ;)

So I say :pain:

[BRobinsonfan]

You need to take them in context. When you take them out of context like that it's easy to reach that conclusion.

I think your biased view of my posts in general has clouded your vision of what I am trying to say.

Because I am not intending to imply that Bell any of those things.

Just because a word is associated with a player doesn't mean that word defines him.

So.... just because you're saying these things about him doesn't mean you mean the things you say about him? Is that what you're saying?

By the way... how long have you lived in this country? Your written english is really pretty good even if your comprehension suffers a bit.

[McNulty]

Sometimes somebody will give crap to Moose, but that just shows that they're missing the point.

Its just too much fun giving Milligan crap.

The Evil Genius on display again, ladies and gentlemen!

[JTrea81]

So.... just because you're saying these things about him doesn't mean you mean the things you say about him? Is that what you're saying?

By the way... how long have you lived in this country? Your written english is really pretty good even if your comprehension suffers a bit.

What I am saying is that every professional baseball player has some bit of ego or feelings of complacency IMO, even if it's only a tiny bit. It's naive to think they don't.

Now that may not be a bad thing because you want guys to feel confident and sure of their abilities and place, but if those levels increase for any reason so they are a problem, Spring Training is the time to take care of that once and for all, and it's Trembley's job to do it as he said he would.

I just used Bell as an example, but it could apply to any Oriole player be it Craig Tatum or Brian Matusz.

That's all I'm saying, and people are twisting it into "JTrea thinks Josh Bell is a lazy malcontent," which is complete fiction.

[Mad Mark]

So, anyway before the school bus rolled over and exploded, killing several...I think this thread was in some vague way related to Dave Trembley. Can't recall if there was a hammer in the OP, but...whatever.
I kind of wish there were two Dave Trembleys: one to manage the team and one to be the color guy in the booth. His pressers are priceless.
And as to the madness emanating from the state of Maine, I'm not going there this time.

[BRobinsonfan]

That's all I'm saying, and people are twisting it into "JTrea thinks Josh Bell is a lazy malcontent," which is complete fiction.

But is nevertheless what you said. (Reference Drungo's abstract of all your word for word statements in their original context).

Perhaps an English as a Second Language Course could help? Oh sure, you can learn to speak it by watching T.V. but to really comprehend the nuances and range of the language you do need a grounding in grammar, sentence construction and syntax.

Where do you hail from originally anyway? Do your parents speak english or do they still communicate in the language of the old country?

[BRobinsonfan]

I just used Bell as an example, but it could apply to any Oriole player be it Craig Tatum or Brian Matusz.


So you don't think there's a problem with Bell? You were just using his name as a placeholder in your hypothetical, broad general statement about the nature of professional baseball players and their relationship to the coaching staff and management?

O.K. I get it now. I guess I was confused by all the specific references to Bell in the numerous, repetitive, seemingly endless posts you made. Again, I think it comes down to mainly a language thing with almost all of us being native speakers and you apparently growing up speaking another tongue. In the future when you don't mean to refer to the attributes of a specific player, aka Josh Bell, for example, perhaps it would be helpful if you just said something like "Player A" or "all players." This will convey to the reader that what you're describing is not unique, specific or otherwise descriptive of a certain player in particular but simply a "universal truth" about the make up of all baseball players.

I had a professor in graduate school who was originally from the Netherlands by the name of Henri J.M. Nouwen. I helped edit one of his books one summer - and even though he was a fairly famous writer in English, and had lived in this country for many years, he still would get tripped up on the odd idiom here or there. Obviously something similar is going on here.

Language barrier aside you really do remarkably well.

[Sports Guy]

What I am saying is that every professional baseball player has some bit of ego or feelings of complacency IMO, even if it's only a tiny bit. It's naive to think they don't.

Now that may not be a bad thing because you want guys to feel confident and sure of their abilities and place, but if those levels increase for any reason so they are a problem, Spring Training is the time to take care of that once and for all, and it's Trembley's job to do it as he said he would.

I just used Bell as an example, but it could apply to any Oriole player be it Craig Tatum or Brian Matusz.

That's all I'm saying, and people are twisting it into "JTrea thinks Josh Bell is a lazy malcontent," which is complete fiction.

The mere fact that you are even bringing this up is bs though.

It really has no relevance to anything....Not sure what your real point is but its not some level headed idea about the ego of players.

[RShack]

What I am saying is that every professional baseball player has some bit of ego or feelings of complacency IMO, even if it's only a tiny bit. It's naive to think they don't.

Now that may not be a bad thing because you want guys to feel confident and sure of their abilities and place, but if those levels increase for any reason so they are a problem, Spring Training is the time to take care of that once and for all, and it's Trembley's job to do it as he said he would.

I just used Bell as an example, but it could apply to any Oriole player be it Craig Tatum or Brian Matusz.

That's all I'm saying, and people are twisting it into "JTrea thinks Josh Bell is a lazy malcontent," which is complete fiction.
I have a suggestion: Why don't you just admit you were wrong.

This junk happens all the time: you say something that's downright stupid, and then when people point it out, there's several pages of BS while you jump through hoops trying to make it sound like you were really right when you weren't, and everybody else is wrong. It would be better for everybody if you would just grow up enough that you could just man-up and say, "Ooops. Good point. I was wrong about that." But instead, you just dig in and endlessly jerk everybody around...

[JTrea81]

I have a suggestion: Why don't you just admit you were wrong.

This junk happens all the time: you say something that's downright stupid, and then when people point it out, there's several pages of BS while you jump through hoops trying to make it sound like you were really right when you weren't, and everybody else is wrong. It would be better for everybody if you would just grow up enough that you could just man-up and say, "Ooops. Good point. I was wrong about that." But instead, you just dig in and endlessly jerk everybody around...

Because I'm not wrong and instead of actually reading what I wrote, people are twisting my words and trying to argue I'm making a point that I am not trying to make because they can't see past their bias against me.

[McNulty]

Because I'm not wrong and instead of actually reading what I wrote, people are twisting my words and trying to argue I'm making a point that I am not trying to make because they can't see past their bias against me.

Dude, no one is twisting your words. They don't have to.

YOU can't see past your bias against MacPhail, Trembley, anyone who is in Scott Moore's way, Tex, Holliday, anyone but college hitting prospects, and patience.

[ihatetheyankees]

I honestly think Trea does all this out of pure boredom, and laughs at all of us as we get frustrated at his posts. There's no way any of his posts can be serious. Good show Trea hope it's entertaining, maybe i'll try it sometime.

[JTrea81]

Dude, no one is twisting your words. They don't have to.

YOU can't see past your bias against MacPhail, Trembley, anyone who is in Scott Moore's way, Tex, Holliday, college hitting prospects, and patience.

I have shown no bias in this thread whatsoever, but yet people are implying that I am. I don't see it.

I am just bringing up the fact that Trembley has said that he wanted to crack down this ST if certain things occured such as poor defensive performace. And they have.

And there is a possiblity that complacency and ego have lead to the poor defensive performance. And if that is the case then Trembley needs to do what he said he was going to do, and the problem needs to be fixed in ST so it doesn't linger into the season and beyond.

Nobody needs to be fired or shot or stoned. But Trembley needs to fix the problem now, period by whatever means neccessary. And if he doesn't he will likely not be employed for the entire season.

That is my point.

I will say the defense looked pretty good tonight, so hopefully things have been "tightened up."

[McNulty]

There is a possibility that I might find a million dollars on the way home from work.

Both that and your 'point' have the same basis in fact. None.

You show bias in every thread. You don't think so, everyone else does. Its nothing we didn't know already. Thanks for the show, this thread was hilarious. Please don't stop on my account.

[El Gordo]

I thought this was a baseball message board. This thread is giving me a bigger headache than the worst group therapy sessions I had to endure.:rolleyestf:

[RShack]

I have shown no bias in this thread whatsoever, but yet people are implying that I am.
This has got to be an act. Come on, fess up. You're sitting up there in Maine (or wherever you really are), giggling like a teenage girl because you've got people believing that that you mean the inane crap you say. You're really what they call a Performance Artist, aren't you? Did you have an account with another ISP where you pulled off the Bikini Armstrong scam too? Are you really Bikini Trea?

[BRobinsonfan]

Because I'm not wrong and instead of actually reading what I wrote, people are twisting my words and trying to argue I'm making a point that I am not trying to make because they can't see past their bias against me.

Wow. Why do you think that so many people, who are often on opposite sides of so many other issues... are all united in some "bias" against you?

Does it not stop and give you pause when the owner of the site, and moderators, and people as diverse as RShack and Sports Guy all seem to share the same opinion of you?

You accuse people of constantly "twisting your words." Isn't it possible that your words just don't make any sense? Isn't it possible that its not everybody else? Isn't it possible that it really is just you?

I'll say it again. Why do you think so many people - some of whom hardly ever agree with each other about anything, all share the same basic opinion of your posts on this board?

[GoldGlove21]

I just ignore the stupid anti-Trembley threads because the same cast of characters make up their same ridiculous arguments over and over again.

I'm pretty sure we know the posters that can twist any quote, and I mean any quote into something that can support their same agenda.

It's comical that some people would have any concern (besides injuries) during spring training especially on defense where the errors have been by minor league guys for the most part. If the Orioles had won six straight, I sure wouldn't be getting my plans in order for this October.

The only way Trembley gets fired this year is if the team completely tanks and the clubhouse turns against him. No one can survive four poor seasons regardless of the "plan."

So yes, winning does matter this year for Trembley and I'm as optimistic about this team now as I was when the team opened camp and the only way my optimism will drop is if Roberts' injury ends up worse than being let on.

Tony, what I can not understand is how people put down the role a manager plays when the wins are piling up, but it is all his fault when they lose. The reality is that a lot of guys luck themselves into a good position, but a guy that has toiled in the minors for 20 years before getting his break can not be considered one of them.

The Orioles have let a lot of managers walk over the last decade and I can not begin to tell you who was good and who was bad. I just saw a lot of mistakes from players that would be backups on other teams. It is funny how good players having good years can make managers look really good.

[GoldGlove21]

I have shown no bias in this thread whatsoever, but yet people are implying that I am. I don't see it.

I am just bringing up the fact that Trembley has said that he wanted to crack down this ST if certain things occured such as poor defensive performace. And they have.

And there is a possiblity that complacency and ego have lead to the poor defensive performance. And if that is the case then Trembley needs to do what he said he was going to do, and the problem needs to be fixed in ST so it doesn't linger into the season and beyond.

Nobody needs to be fired or shot or stoned. But Trembley needs to fix the problem now, period by whatever means neccessary. And if he doesn't he will likely not be employed for the entire season.

That is my point.

I will say the defense looked pretty good tonight, so hopefully things have been "tightened up."


Put yourself in DT shoes? How do you fix poor play on the defensive end? Trembley can put a guy out there and hit him a thousand balls, he can bench guys, he can rip them a new one, or try to boost their confidence. He can not release a guy and to some extent there are not even viable options for most starters to be threatened. DT can't fine a guy for poor performance last time I checked. At some point players need to be responsible for their own actions in game situations. When you coach a baseball team in college or high school you can drop a guy if he isn't performing up to your level of expectations. In the ML's the GM is the one who will do the dropping and I can't imagine MacPhail wanting to do that at this point.

If Roberts is out for an extended period of time then expect this team which currently has a very tough schedule for the first 6 weeks of the season to really struggle. Adding Tejada and Atkins doesn't make up for the loss of a guy like Roberts. So I ask again, what would you do to fix it?

[Dipper9]

This thread has been a pleasure to read. Trea makes direct and specific comments about Bell, and Trembley's lack of "bringing down the hammer" but then says we are all twisting his words. Arch enemies Shack and SG and all the rest combine to point out the flaws in Trea's comments, and yet he still tries (unsuccessfully) to defend himself. And then Shack defines very specifically why some posters are allowed to be criticized (within board rules, of course). That post from Shack should be stickied somewhere and referenced about once a week when needed, like a footnote or something! :laughlol:

But seriously, this thread, while causing me to :bangwall: has also given me great enjoyment for the last half hour! :clap3:

[DrungoHazewood]

I will say the defense looked pretty good tonight, so hopefully things have been "tightened up."

I should just let this thread die, but I'll try to be to the point, brief, logical, and non-confrontational:

- An excellent defensive team will have games, especially early in the spring, where they make multiple errors.

- A poor defensive team will have any number of games during the year where they make no errors and play fundamentally sound baseball.

- Dramatic shifts in defensive ability and focus from major league players are not observable on a day-to-day basis, nor could you attribute any such swings to coaching input.

So, there's no possible way anyone could change the way a team plays fundamental defense in one day, and even if you could there's no way of telling that from accounts of a couple of spring training games.

There is no basis for attributing the defensive outcomes of the last two games to anything but the number of reps early in the year, the abilities of the players, and random variation.

[SilentJames]

I agree with SG. I want Trembley to have a great year and prove to the naysayers. His attitude and outlook on the team and game is exactly what anyone would want to see in a manager. He is honest, straightforward, an excellent communicator, professional and above all he treats everyone with respect and dignity.

He needs to put all those things in practice. Having a wonderful mind is one thing, but now he needs to apply it and show results.

[rooster1]

It's cool how it can be clearly open season on some posters. Is there a list somewhere of them so we won't be sanctioned if we somehow stumble and do it to the wrong "expert"?

I want that list too. . people nit pick at every small opening they can get with certain posters. Can't pick the wrong one though

[Dipper9]

I want that list too. . people nit pick at every small opening they can get with certain posters. Can't pick the wrong one though

Read the whole thread. Shack addresses this in an excellent post around page 7ish.

[rochester]

This thread has been a pleasure to read. Trea makes direct and specific comments about Bell, and Trembley's lack of "bringing down the hammer" but then says we are all twisting his words. Arch enemies Shack and SG and all the rest combine to point out the flaws in Trea's comments, and yet he still tries (unsuccessfully) to defend himself. And then Shack defines very specifically why some posters are allowed to be criticized (within board rules, of course). That post from Shack should be stickied somewhere and referenced about once a week when needed, like a footnote or something! :laughlol:

But seriously, this thread, while causing me to :bangwall: has also given me great enjoyment for the last half hour! :clap3:

I agree Dip - could have been a bit more condensed though - it would have been a perfect 10 minute read. A lot of redundancy...

[SilentJames]

I think every error should be met with a public stoning...That will definitely get the point across that this stuff won't be tolerated.

http://static.open.salon.com/files/the-angry-mob1261352602.png

[TakebackOPACY]

What I am saying is Bell may know that he has to work hard to get to the majors. But he is the most attractive option at 3B for the Orioles after this season, and they did trade one of their most valuable commodities to get him.

So in the back of his mind, there might be some complacency there IMO.

The team has talked him up, so he might have started to buy into his hype a little. I'm not saying he has, but if that's the case, this is the time to stop that.

You are blowing things out of proportion. Bell is a 23 year old kid getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and is only a step away from the majors. It's hardly shocking to think he might have a bit of an ego or might be a little complacent given his hype by the team.

I know we like to idealize Oriole ballplayers, especially prospects, but these guys are still human.


You are over-exaggerating again.

I am not saying Bell is a slack off, but he's a 23 year old professional ballplayer who has money in the bank and a ton of hype by his club. To think there is absolutely no shred of ego, or no sense of entitlement at all in this kid's mind is pretty naive IMO.

Bell is not getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and he probably couldn't afford to keep much of his money in the bank. He received a signing bonus of $212,000 in 2005 (source) (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/baltimore-orioles_112321768568552760.html). As a player who is entering his first year at 'AAA', he could be making as low as $2150 per month plus expenses just for the six month season. I don't know how being a member of the 40-man roster may impact that, but I would still think it's safe to say he'll make less than $40,000 in 2010 if he doesn't get to the majors.

[Tony-OH]

OK, this thread has run it's ridiculous course..

Let's all move on..nothing to see here.