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Lucky_13

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14 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

No, you're trading a known elite commodity for a guy who is two years older and a lesser talent, plus some of those same kids who might not pan out.

A lesser talent who is still a gold glove caliber CF'er with a bat consistently in the mid .800's OPS and improving each year and under team control for 3 more seasons. 

My guess is, if you want Benintendi, you get no prospects along with him. If you take Bradley, you get prospects in addition. 

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12 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

A lesser talent who is still a gold glove caliber CF'er with a bat consistently in the mid .800's OPS and improving each year and under team control for 3 more seasons. 

My guess is, if you want Benintendi, you get no prospects along with him. If you take Bradley, you get prospects in addition. 

I'd rather go with Mullens and spend on SP.

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5 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

A lesser talent who is still a gold glove caliber CF'er with a bat consistently in the mid .800's OPS and improving each year and under team control for 3 more seasons. 

My guess is, if you want Benintendi, you get no prospects along with him. If you take Bradley, you get prospects in addition. 

If you make either of those trades you'll regret it. 

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A few thoughts.  Britton, if healthy, to the Nationals seems like a perfect fit.    Even though starting pitching is our greatest need, we must focus on best prospect available.   Britton for Victor Robles and a good pitching prospect like Fedde works for me.    However, I would also be okay with taking Robles and just a good bullpen arm like Koda Glover.

 

One strategy I think is possible with Machado is a two pronged approach.   We should be playing the Yankees and Boston off against each other.   Both will be in the playoffs.   Both have holes at 3B.    It will not only help the team that gets Machado but it will hurt the team that doesn't get him.   I would try to create a competition bidding war between the two teams.    I would also try to tie in Chris Davis to a Machado trade which, of course could hurt the haul coming back.   However, either team can use him at 1B/DH for this year again, assuming he gets back healthy and in time.     The main target on in the Yankees farm system would be Gleyber Torres (yes I know he just had TJ surgery) with a pitching prospect like Chance Adams involved.    The main target on the Red Sox would be Rafael Devers with a pitching prospect involved as well.

The Orioles future team in 2019 might be something like this.

1B Mancini

2B Schoop or Mountcastle 

SS Gleyber Torres or ????

3B Schoop or Devers

C  Sisco 

LF Robles 

CF Mullins

RF Hays

DH Santander   (Trumbo dumped)

 

Pitching

Bundy  and a lot of question marks which is what we have now.

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1 minute ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Benintendi is not chopped liver but our future prospect strength appears to be the OF. If we are moving Machado, I would be looking for TOR and our future SS help.

Machado brings five top pieces back. And one has top of rotation pedigree.

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7 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

A lesser talent who is still a gold glove caliber CF'er with a bat consistently in the mid .800's OPS and improving each year and under team control for 3 more seasons. 

My guess is, if you want Benintendi, you get no prospects along with him. If you take Bradley, you get prospects in addition. 

If that's the how the Red Sox feel, you laugh and cut off negotiations.

Make no mistake. Manny Machado should garner a package unlike anything the league has seen in at least a decade, if not longer.

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19 minutes ago, weams said:

Machado brings five top pieces back. And one has top of rotation pedigree.

Precisely. Too many people here are undervaluing him out of sheer frustration at his slow start.

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21 minutes ago, weams said:

Machado brings five top pieces back. And one has top of rotation pedigree.

5 pieces?  Maybe.   5 top pieces.   I guess it's the way you define "top".      Jason Heyward basically got Shelby Miller back with one year left on his (Heyward's contract).    Chris Sale, who had tons of service time left on his contract got one great piece back in Moncada, a high upside pitcher who was far away from the majors and might be a bullpen piece eventually in Kopech, a warm body with a good arm (Diaz), and a lowers minors good outfield prospect (Basabe).    If you call that 4 good pieces I would argue that it's one great piece, one good piece, one decent piece, and one warm body.   At best, that's 3 good pieces.   And that's for an ACE pitcher who the receiving team was guaranteed 3 years of service time.    I would argue that an ace pitcher means more to a playoff team than a great 3B but let's just go with the idea of service time.   Why would you expect 5 good pieces for 1 1/2 years of a player when a previous transaction showed 3 good pieces for a similar value player with 3 years of service time?

I don't think you are correct.

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9 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

Precisely. Too many people here are undervaluing him out of sheer frustration at his slow start.

No. I just don't think there is a huge market for him.

Which contending teams do you think would be serious trade partners for him?

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If you are trading Manny, you go to the "Buyer" with a definite need and with a contending counterpart in the same Division.  You play them against one and the other because one would not want the other to get a pieces/part that would make them a much better team.

Yankees need a 3B, Current OPS of .660. Boston need a 3B, Current OPS of .562.  Play them against each other.

If you want to sell Manny as a Short Stop

Cubs SS, .674 OPS, Brewers SS, .746 OPS

Arizona SS, .734 OPS, Rockies SS, .721 OPS

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I have had these kind of conversations with a colleague at work and my wife for a good amount of time. My wife rarely watches sports, but has a good mindset of my thoughts and Orioles where she can bounce some stuff back at me that she reads from Facebook. 

So if I was the GM (be prepared it will be crazy) I would first start with trying to sign some of our players we would want to. Hold around for years. If it didn't go well, then they are going to be traded because if they aren't here for the long term, then there isn't a point in my eyes to keep them 1-2 more years.

1. Offer Schoop 5yr for $50 million (2018 7mil, 2019 9 mil and 2020-2022 11.3 mil)

2. Offer Machado 5yr for $120 million (2018 18 million, 2019 22 million 2020 25 million and 2021-2022 27.5 million)

3. Offer Adam 4 yr extension that would pay 56 million with him making 14 million a year and hopefully retiring as an Oriole after his current contract is up after 2018.

4. Offer Gausman and Bundy the same exact deal: 5 year deal for $50 million and 2 team options 13 and 15 million each that would bring the total cost to 7 yrs and $78 million if picked up.

5. Offer Brach a 4 yr $32 million extension for either him or Givens to be the closer of the future. I love Britton and enjoyed him even back to the days of starting, but as the contracts for power hitters drastically went down this off season, the closer contract sky rocketed and is way to expensive for someone who pitches 70 innings.

6. Depending on how the extensions went I would start with certain players first this All Star Break. If everyone signs the contract I offered then I would start with Britton, Castillo, Smith, Kim and our SP. I'd obviously go for SP, SS/3B as the go to positions to target in trades. I would ideally hope that we could have:

C: Joseph/Pena while Sisco finishes out the year in Norfolk

1st: Davis

2nd: Schoop 

SS/3B: Machado and player from trade until Montcastle was ready in 2 yrs.

LF: Mancini/Rickard ( Mancini full time in 2018)

CF: Jones (until 2018 when Mullins is ready then shift to RF)

RF: Trumbo/Mancini depending on if Mancini is playing 1st or outfield.  (Jones in 2018 and beyond)

Yes this ultimately looks like our team this year, but ultimately it's the rotation we need to upgrade because we all know honestly the Davis and Trumbo contracts aren't going anywhere. So you try to trade the assets listed above for as many SP prospects and upgrades you can. Davis strikes out a lot, but he ultimately is a power threat and a good defensive 1B. Schoop is Cano/ Dozier in the making with the bat. Machado is still someone you can try to keep or trade and get a great haul for. Jones is Mr Oriole and needs to stay with us for the rest of his career. Mancini will continue his development and become a even more legit player for us and will be a candidate for an extension in 3-4 yrs. we have a decent 2-3 OF prospects in waiting that will be great contributors in 2-3 years that we need to keep. So ideally we hope Gausman can find himself and get sort of back to normal and let Bundy be the #1. I think between Britton and Castillo you could get decent SP from teams like the Nationals, Rockies, or Cubs. So build on what you have and gain what you can from the assets. And if Machado doesn't sign my offer then prepare to be a top 5 minor league system. 

(I'd type more and get more details on trades but I've been watching Moana with my toddler son while using my phone for this and it's coming to an end so my phone is no longer safe for the forum)

Edited by adidasdoc

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Offering Brach a 4/32M contract is not a good idea.

Thinking Machado would sign a 5/125M deal is unrealistic and totally out of touch with reality.

 

Those are the two easiest things to criticize that jumped out at me.

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5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Offering Brach a 4/32M contract is not a good idea.

Thinking Machado would sign a 5/125M deal is unrealistic and totally out of touch with reality.

 

Those are the two easiest things to criticize that jumped out at me.

A Jones 4/56 extrension would be ugly.  And 5/50 is way too rich for Bundy when he hasn't even reached arb.  5/50 for KG is just ridiculous. 

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3 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Benintendi is not chopped liver but our future prospect strength appears to be the OF. If we are moving Machado, I would be looking for TOR and our future SS help.

This. I would stockpile as much starting pitching as possible from the trades. Preferably the major league ready variety. But reading the scouting report on Jay Groome would make him a great get.

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2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

5 pieces?  Maybe.   5 top pieces.   I guess it's the way you define "top".      Jason Heyward basically got Shelby Miller back with one year left on his (Heyward's contract).    Chris Sale, who had tons of service time left on his contract got one great piece back in Moncada, a high upside pitcher who was far away from the majors and might be a bullpen piece eventually in Kopech, a warm body with a good arm (Diaz), and a lowers minors good outfield prospect (Basabe).    If you call that 4 good pieces I would argue that it's one great piece, one good piece, one decent piece, and one warm body.   At best, that's 3 good pieces.   And that's for an ACE pitcher who the receiving team was guaranteed 3 years of service time.    I would argue that an ace pitcher means more to a playoff team than a great 3B but let's just go with the idea of service time.   Why would you expect 5 good pieces for 1 1/2 years of a player when a previous transaction showed 3 good pieces for a similar value player with 3 years of service time?

I don't think you are correct.

We are all entitled to our opinions. And when you trade Manny this year it is for two World Series. 

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