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OFFNY

Roy Halladay Died

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Dave Cameron wrote an article about Halladay’s baseball career that includes the following:

”He belongs in Cooperstown.   I have no doubt he’ll get there now, but he belonged even before this tragedy took him from us too early.”

That seems to suggest that Cameron thinks that the circumstances of Halladay’s death somehow make him a lock for the Hall of Fame, but I don’t see why his untimely death should have anything to do with his HOF chances.    I don’t remember that being a Hall of Fame criterion.    And for the record, yes I think Halladay belongs in the HOF, based purely on his pitching accomplishments.    But his death is irrelevant.    

I know Roberto Clemente was voted in after dying in a plane crash and the HOF waived the usual 5-year waiting period, but that was because Clemente died while on an emergency relief mission to Nicaragua following a tragic earthquake there.     He also had an unassailable case for making the HOF.     The circumstances of Halladay’s death are completely different and his HOF case, while very good, is nowhere near as strong as Clemente’s.

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17 minutes ago, weams said:

o

 

Amphetamines, Morphine, and traces of a drug used to treat insomnia were found in Halladay's System.

 


Mix of Drugs Found in Baseball Legend Roy Halladay’s System after Fatal Plane Crash

(By Chris Sommerfeldt and Megan Cerullo)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/roy-halladay-mix-drugs-system-fatal-plane-crash-article-1.3766855


o

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5 hours ago, OFFNY said:

 

o

 

Amphetamines, Morphine, and traces of a drug used to treat insomnia were found in Halladay's System.

 


Mix of Drugs Found in Baseball Legend Roy Halladay’s System after Fatal Plane Crash

(By Chris Sommerfeldt and Megan Cerullo)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/roy-halladay-mix-drugs-system-fatal-plane-crash-article-1.3766855


o

I think one thing that is important to note and add to the information presented in this article is that zolpidem is a generic name for Ambien and that the indications from the autopsy are that the levels of drugs in his system are consistent with someone using prescription medication properly. Also, the levels of morphine are also consistent with someone who is using pain killers which, considering Halladay's cause for retirement, would be consistent and believable to this day. The toxicology reports more or less indicate regular use of common medications. 

One aspect that I would be curious to receive further clarification on is the "(Zolpidem) appears capable of impairing driving to a degree that increases the risk of a motor vehicle accident." The reason I would like some clarification, really just for my own knowledge bank, is that is a very vague statement. When you think about most common medications, cold or flu or whatever, they could increase the risk of an accident due to impairing driving "to a degree." So I would be curious to have an expert explain, maybe by providing parallel examples, to what degree are we really talking about impairment. 

It's still hard to believe that he is gone. I definitely admired him as an athlete and I look forward to the debate about his worthiness for Cooperstown. 

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49 minutes ago, thatbearflies said:

 

I think one thing that is important to note and add to the information presented in this article is that zolpidem is a generic name for Ambien and that the indications from the autopsy are that the levels of drugs in his system are consistent with someone using prescription medication properly. Also, the levels of morphine are also consistent with someone who is using pain killers which, considering Halladay's cause for retirement, would be consistent and believable to this day. The toxicology reports more or less indicate regular use of common medications. 

One aspect that I would be curious to receive further clarification on is the "(Zolpidem) appears capable of impairing driving to a degree that increases the risk of a motor vehicle accident." The reason I would like some clarification, really just for my own knowledge bank, is that is a very vague statement. When you think about most common medications, cold or flu or whatever, they could increase the risk of an accident due to impairing driving "to a degree." So I would be curious to have an expert explain, maybe by providing parallel examples, to what degree are we really talking about impairment. 

It's still hard to believe that he is gone. I definitely admired him as an athlete and I look forward to the debate about his worthiness for Cooperstown.

 

o

 

When I first heard that he died, I was very surprised.

After reading and hearing about how irresponsible he was in doing what he was doing, I was no longer surprised.

Aside from the fact that his wife begged him repeatedly not to fly at all, he insisted on doing so, and specifically flying a plane that was designed to fly low and in a dangerous manner.

The pilot that designed the plane died while flying one of them earlier this yearso Halladay obviously knew that. Thank goodness that he didn't take anybody with him, although it would have been extremely foolish for anyone to have chosen to go with him in the first place.

 

o

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34 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

When I first heard that he died, I was very surprised.

After reading and hearing about how irresponsible he was in doing what he was doing, I was no longer surprised.

Aside from the fact that his wife begged him repeatedly not to fly at all, he insisted on doing so, and specifically flying a plane that was designed to fly low and in a dangerous manner.

The pilot that designed the plane died while flying one of them earlier this yearso Halladay obviously knew that. Thank goodness that he didn't take anybody with him, although it would have been extremely foolish for anyone to have chosen to go with him in the first place.

 

o

Speaking solely for myself, his behavior is in complete contrast of the image that I had fostered of him in my mind. Similar to Maddux, I sort of developed this perception of him that he was essentially a more stoic, intellectual player and person. Of course, Maddux turns out to be a prankster and Halladay was far more reckless, at least in that area of his life, than I ever would have imagined. This explains why I do not work for the FBI's profiling department.

In all seriousness though, when I first heard about Halladay flying planes (which was the same day he died), I immediately became convinced that the plane had to have malfunctioned. Before the facts began to emerge, I totally believed that Halladay was going to be a diligent student, flying many training hours with experienced pilots, and, when he did branch out on his own, would be a conservative, responsible flyer who received his satisfaction by simply cruising through the sky rather than any reckless behavior with the planes. Even seeing the photo of his plane was a complete contrast to what I would have imagined him flying.

This is where I insert lesson about the multi-dimensional nature of people's personalities and how two opposing traits can exist and even define a person. It's a frustrating and tragic thing to have happened, but it doesn't change the respect I had for his game. At some point, you stop transforming these players, in any sport, into saints who eventual crumble into reality, and just appreciate the accomplishments and making the games enjoyable when they are out there. 

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I missed this the first time.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinenegroni/2018/01/23/halladay-flying-with-fatal-level-of-amphetamines-before-crash/#7738532b4c17

Quote

An aeromedical physician formerly with the National Transportation Safety Board says that on the day former baseball pitcher Roy Halladay died in a plane crash, he had a toxic dose of amphetamines in his system.

"That amphetamine level shocks me," Dr. Mitchell Garber said after reviewing the report of the District 6 Medical Examiners office in Tampa. The level taken from Halladay's cardiac blood was 1,800 ng/ml. "I saw that number and said, 'Am I reading that right? 1,800, holy cow.' That just jumps off the page at me."

Amphetamine in the system can cause death at 500 ng/ml. An overdose can produce symptoms that could lead to reckless piloting of an airplane or debilitating the pilot with convulsions, hallucinations, restlessness and cardiac arrest. Dr. Garber noted that according to reference material on amphetamine overdose, death does not happen right away but can take several hours.

Also, his number is getting retired and he gets a patch.

https://www.facebook.com/BlueJays/videos/10155556860818772/

I am literally shaking my head.

Seems like the easiest way to get a patch is to kill yourself and maybe others while impaired.

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So, it would seem Halladay took too many amphetamines, possibly because he had a problem or an addiction to them like many other Americans, and died as a result of his being high on them and taking the plane out with such a high. 

Why should that lead to any negative judgment of him? He would seem to have had a problem, and he lost his life for it. Story over. Don't see anything incompatible there with people celebrating his life, celebrating his career, and the Blue Jays retiring his number and giving him a patch. 

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3 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

So, it would seem Halladay took too many amphetamines, possibly because he had a problem or an addiction to them like many other Americans, and died as a result of his being high on them and taking the plane out with such a high. 

Why should that lead to any negative judgment of him? He would seem to have had a problem, and he lost his life for it. Story over. Don't see anything incompatible there with people celebrating his life, celebrating his career, and the Blue Jays retiring his number and giving him a patch. 

If only someone with 149M in career earnings and maybe the best health care plan in the country could have received help for his problem.

My problem is that he, like Jose Fernandez and Oscar Taveras actually did, could have killed others with his recklessness. 

I don't feel like that type of behavior should be lauded in any fashion.

It wouldn't change my HoF vote if I had one but yea, I'm not in favor of a patch.

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3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If only someone with 149M in career earnings and maybe the best health care plan in the country could have received help for his problem.

That's not how drug problems work, though, more money and more options doesn't mean you automatically fix it. If anything more money and more options tends to be a major obstacle to fixing it. 

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

My problem is that he, like Jose Fernandez and Oscar Taveras actually did, could have killed others with his recklessness. 

He didn't though, and I don't think you can hold against people moral what-ifs. 

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3 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

That's not how drug problems work, though, more money and more options doesn't mean you automatically fix it. If anything more money and more options tends to be a major obstacle to fixing it. 

He didn't though, and I don't think you can hold against people moral what-ifs. 

It certainly means he had the ability to try and fix it. 

 

I think I can.

Why should he get a free pass because his extremely reckless behavior didn't have as reaching a consequence as the other listed?  It wasn't as if he took steps to avoid others being hurt. 

He intentionally got behind the stick when he knew he was impaired.  Yea, I'll hold that against him.

Just like others would hold it against him if he hadn't been a famous former baseball player.

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