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If We Can't Attract the Pitching...?

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1 minute ago, phillyOs119 said:

How can you say someone is awful but not count the facts available to determine if said player is awful or not.  That seems like a major logical fallacy to me.  Do you know him personally and just not like the guy, I mean, I'm all for listening to your arguments as to why he'd be a bad addition, but because I think he's awful doesn't work.  Speed not aging well can be true, but Dyson hasn't shown signs of that and like I said, one of the pluses is that he's probably available for a short-term deal.

He said provocative things when KC played the O’s in the ALCS?

:rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

How can you say someone is awful but not count the facts available to determine if said player is awful or not.  That seems like a major logical fallacy to me.  Do you know him personally and just not like the guy, I mean, I'm all for listening to your arguments as to why he'd be a bad addition, but because I think he's awful doesn't work.  Speed not aging well can be true, but Dyson hasn't shown signs of that and like I said, one of the pluses is that he's probably available for a short-term deal.

The Royals didn't consider him good enough to be a full time player and neither did the Mariners. He hit .250 last season with a mediocre on base % and 30 rbis. I'm sorry, but what exactly does he do well again? 

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5 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

Dyson on the bench would be a good idea. Or call our good friend Michael Bourn. 

Don't let him off he hook that easy. He's not saying to sign him as a bench player. He's advocating making him a full time player and replacing Jones in CF. Let that sink in for a minute. 

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1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Don't let him off he hook that easy. He's not saying to sign him as a bench player. He's advocating making him a full time player and replacing Jones in CF. Let that sink in for a minute. 

Hays or Mullins should replace Jones in CF. Dyson wouldn't be bad in CF, but every day in CF......that's a sign that we're just throwing noodles against the wall. 

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5 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Don't let him off he hook that easy. He's not saying to sign him as a bench player. He's advocating making him a full time player and replacing Jones in CF. Let that sink in for a minute. 

I don't want to be let off any supposed "hook" and I wouldn't be sitting him on the bench much.  I stand solidly beside my comments here and I think most of the data backs up my point of view.  I like an outfield combination of Jones, Dyson, Hays, and Stewart.  Two righties, two lefties, much stronger defensively, allows Jones to play in a corner where his defense should be much better.  Also lets Jones have some days off to stay healthier.  

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9 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Don't let him off he hook that easy. He's not saying to sign him as a bench player. He's advocating making him a full time player and replacing Jones in CF. Let that sink in for a minute. 

Platoon player. No one would want him hitting vs LHP. But he was just as productive as Jones in fewer ABs and plays better defense. (That would be the thing he really does well.) And you ease Hays into a part time role in the meantime.

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Just now, Il BuonO said:

Platoon player. No one would want him hitting vs LHP. But he was just as productive as Jones in fewer ABs and plays better defense. (That would be the thing he really does well.) And you ease Hays into a part time role in the meantime.

Yeah, large part of the platoon (75% of league ABs were against RHP) plus pinch runner and defensive replacement.  So you can call it part time player but he'd be on the field 75% or more of the time.

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8 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The Royals didn't consider him good enough to be a full time player and neither did the Mariners. He hit .250 last season with a mediocre on base % and 30 rbis. I'm sorry, but what exactly does he do well again? 

Dyson was a mostly everyday player for the Mariners last year. He sat against some lefthanders, but mainly when he did not play it was because he was injured.

What does he do well?  Speed and outfield something the Orioles ignore.

Only four Orioles (Schoop, Machado, Bundy and Beckham )had a better WAR than Dyson last year and Dyson missed the last month and half of the season.

Edited by POR

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As to the OP, if you can't buy pitching and you don't have prospects ready to step up then you need to trade. There are guys with less attractive contracts that some teams may be looking to unload.  Again, you'd rather go other routes and I think there are a glut of mid rotation starters out there this year but there are some guys the O's could probably get through trade without completely emptying the already depleted farm

Jordan Zimmermann (24M 2018, 25M per year 2019 & 2020)

Ian Kennedy (16M 2018, 16M per year 2019 & 2020)

Wei-Yin Chen (10M 2018, 20M 2019)

Homer Bailey (21M 2018, 23M 2019)

Johnny Cueto (21M a year 2018-2021) or Jeff Smardzija (18M a year 2018-2020)

Felix Hernandez (26M 2018, 27M 2019)

James Shields (21M 2018)

Adam Wainwright (19.5M 2018)

Scott Kazmir (16M 2018)

 

 

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I see some are starting to come around to the idea of Dyson. I'm all for it, been saying it for a while now, Dyson would drastically improve this team. Though, I would much rather pay someone to take Trumbo than to trade away Mancini - but for the right pitcher it might be a better idea than trading Trumbo for nothing.

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5 hours ago, droper said:

As to the OP, if you can't buy pitching and you don't have prospects ready to step up then you need to trade. There are guys with less attractive contracts that some teams may be looking to unload.  Again, you'd rather go other routes and I think there are a glut of mid rotation starters out there this year but there are some guys the O's could probably get through trade without completely emptying the already depleted farm

Jordan Zimmermann (24M 2018, 25M per year 2019 & 2020)

Ian Kennedy (16M 2018, 16M per year 2019 & 2020)

Wei-Yin Chen (10M 2018, 20M 2019)

Homer Bailey (21M 2018, 23M 2019)

Johnny Cueto (21M a year 2018-2021) or Jeff Smardzija (18M a year 2018-2020)

Felix Hernandez (26M 2018, 27M 2019)

James Shields (21M 2018)

Adam Wainwright (19.5M 2018)

Scott Kazmir (16M 2018)

 

 

Good ideas. The good thing is some of these are not long term commitments if the next GM after DD wants to do a total rebuild. Who is most attractive and who could you pry away for the least amount?

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22 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Sometimes you have to look past the #s. Dyson is awful and speed does not age well. We have much larger problems on this team then trying to get Adam Jones out of CF. 

Unless he has clubhouse issues what do you mean? Speed wont go that much in 2 years. and the defense would be a plus. plus as a LHB he's 

.271 .342 .388 .730

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3 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Unless he has clubhouse issues what do you mean? Speed wont go that much in 2 years. and the defense would be a plus. plus as a LHB he's 

.271 .342 .388 .730

The person who suggested adding Dyson pitched him as a FULL TIME player who should replace Adam Jones in CF. If we want to sign him as a bench / part time player that's fine, but I that's not what he was proposing. Dyson isn't a full time player. And I really don't think he's the answer to our lead off hitter problems. We'd be better served making a run at Lorenzo Cain. I'd even argue that Cameron Maybin is a better option, and he can probably be had for a one year deal. 

Again, all this is a moot point because the team's #1 priority should be improving he pitching, not adding another aging outfielder. If we need to, we can patchwork a respectable OF together next season, but we can't do the same with our pitching staff. We don't have the pieces internally to fix that problem. 

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Just now, wildbillhiccup said:

The person who suggested adding Dyson pitched him as a FULL TIME player who should replace Adam Jones in CF. If we want to sign him as a bench / part time player that's fine, but I that's not what he was proposing. Dyson isn't a full time player. And I really don't think he's the answer to our lead off hitter problems. We'd be better served making a run at Lorenzo Cain. I'd even argue that Cameron Maybin is a better option, and he can probably be had for a one year deal. 

Again, all this is a moot point because the team's #1 priority should be improving he pitching, not adding another aging outfielder. If we need to, we can patchwork a respectable OF together next season, but we can't do the same with our pitching staff. We don't have the pieces internally to fix that problem. 

If Jones would move to RF (which he wont so this is all moot) I would be happy to play Dyson in CF most of the time. maybe platoon him with Hays.. I like the 22 R +defense.

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3 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The person who suggested adding Dyson pitched him as a FULL TIME player who should replace Adam Jones in CF. If we want to sign him as a bench / part time player that's fine, but I that's not what he was proposing. Dyson isn't a full time player. And I really don't think he's the answer to our lead off hitter problems. We'd be better served making a run at Lorenzo Cain. I'd even argue that Cameron Maybin is a better option, and he can probably be had for a one year deal. 

Again, all this is a moot point because the team's #1 priority should be improving he pitching, not adding another aging outfielder. If we need to, we can patchwork a respectable OF together next season, but we can't do the same with our pitching staff. We don't have the pieces internally to fix that problem. 

I'd try for Colby Rasmus if that's the case. 

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