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Os requesting offers on Machado

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4 hours ago, raypetty said:

We owe Jones 17 mill next year and 16 this year.  We should trade him for some prospects.  He'll be on the wrong side of 30 and it'd free up money.  I know DD and Co. have said he will be playing here next year but.....a thought.  

This is Adam's final year. at 17.

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8 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Yeah.  I would take Flaherty, Kelly, and Hicks, but don't want Hicks as the centerpiece.  Then trade Sisco for a starting pitcher.

Not me ... Flaherty and Hudson if I can get two top 10...

 

if not Id want  Gomber who is left handed and can start at AAA. 

In his first full season, Gomber led the Cardinals organization in wins, WHIP and batting average against. It was more of the same in 2016, his second full season, as he topped the system in ERA and batting average against, then capped it off with an outstanding performance in the Arizona Fall League. Year three, his first full season in Double-A, has been less consistent.

And Helsley who dan also start at AAA after 2.74 in 135 innings between A+ and AA.

Really goes along way to solve our SP needs long term and Mercado as the 4Th player. If they won't give me Mercado ...I'd take SS Edman and Knizer C that rate at the bottom of the top 30

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1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

ML teams' payrolls tell only part of the story as to what each team can spend and does spend. We tend to compare payrolls because they're the only "real" numbers we get to see. 

But there arte other expenditures that are made to improve teams' performance -- today, in the near future, and for the long-run: stuff like bonuses, posting fees, salaries of scouts, MiL players and coaches, equipment, facilities, technology, international player development and signings, etc.  I am confident that the NYYs and Dodgers outspend, by a wide margin, most if not all other ML teams in these items, which amounts are not disclosed and do not count toward any penalties or sharing with other teams. 

While the numbers are not published, here's some idea of what those two teams and the Orioles spent in 2016 on things other than salaries for their 40-man roster. I took the Forbes numbers for teams' revenues subtracted its income (or added its loss) to find out what each team spent in 2016, and then  subtracted the Spotrac historical (not opening-day) amounts spent on the 2016 payroll for players on the 40-man roster, plus payment obligations to those not on the roster. The difference is what each team spent on stuff other than player payroll. 

  • The NYYs spent about $487 million (revenues of $526 million less profits of $39 million) and had a payroll of $227 million, so they spent about $260 million in 2016 on stuff other than ML payroll.
     
  • The Dodgers spent about $482 million ($462 million in revenues plus $20 million in losses) and had a payroll of about $279 million, so they spent about $203 million on stuff other than MLB payroill.
     
  • The Orioles spent about $255 million (revenues of $253 million plus $2 million in losses) and had a payroll of about $157 million, so they spent about $98 million on stuff other than MLB payroll.

The Forbes numbers may be off, but no one has challenged them for years as far as I know. You could use different  numbers to assess payroll, but I don't think it would change the picture. 

The point is a simple one, and I've made it before: if you want to look at the disparities among ML teams' financial resources, you should look beyond their ML payrolls and compare their revenues and their total spending.

So the disparities between Mega teams and other teams are even an order of magnitude greater than if one just looks at the already huge disparities existing just between the payrolls.   Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

ML teams' payrolls tell only part of the story as to what each team can spend and does spend. We tend to compare payrolls because they're the only "real" numbers we get to see. 

But there arte other expenditures that are made to improve teams' performance -- today, in the near future, and for the long-run: stuff like bonuses, posting fees, salaries of scouts, MiL players and coaches, equipment, facilities, technology, international player development and signings, etc.  I am confident that the NYYs and Dodgers outspend, by a wide margin, most if not all other ML teams in these items, which amounts are not disclosed and do not count toward any penalties or sharing with other teams. 

While the numbers are not published, here's some idea of what those two teams and the Orioles spent in 2016 on things other than salaries for their 40-man roster. I took the Forbes numbers for teams' revenues subtracted its income (or added its loss) to find out what each team spent in 2016, and then  subtracted the Spotrac historical (not opening-day) amounts spent on the 2016 payroll for players on the 40-man roster, plus payment obligations to those not on the roster. The difference is what each team spent on stuff other than player payroll. 

  • The NYYs spent about $487 million (revenues of $526 million less profits of $39 million) and had a payroll of $227 million, so they spent about $260 million in 2016 on stuff other than ML payroll.
     
  • The Dodgers spent about $482 million ($462 million in revenues plus $20 million in losses) and had a payroll of about $279 million, so they spent about $203 million on stuff other than MLB payroill.
     
  • The Orioles spent about $255 million (revenues of $253 million plus $2 million in losses) and had a payroll of about $157 million, so they spent about $98 million on stuff other than MLB payroll.

The Forbes numbers may be off, but no one has challenged them for years as far as I know. You could use different  numbers to assess payroll, but I don't think it would change the picture. 

The point is a simple one, and I've made it before: if you want to look at the disparities among ML teams' financial resources, you should look beyond their ML payrolls and compare their revenues and their total spending.

Yet not a torch, pitchfork or lynch mob to be found as far as the eye can see.

Fascinating.

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15 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

Gotta think we can get a good package with 10 teams involved. 

No one is bidding against other.   Yet.    Right now, it just seems like we have 10 offers.   Now, can DD go back and get teams to compete against each other and get more out of them?    

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9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

No one is bidding against other.   Yet.    Right now, it just seems like we have 10 offers.   Now, can DD go back and get teams to compete against each other and get more out of them?    

Sure...why not. 

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44 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

No one is bidding against other.   Yet.    Right now, it just seems like we have 10 offers.   Now, can DD go back and get teams to compete against each other and get more out of them?    

 

Agreed. I think people are too callus about the 1 year deal. I know it doesnt give a team any benefit on paper (Besides the pick if he walks), but I think people underestimate how important a good clubhouse/city/fit is for these players. If you are signing an 8+ year deal, you want to know you and your family fit with an organization.

A team doesnt get just a year of production out of Manny, but a year long wooing process to show that you will not only contend, but provide an environment in which the player can be happy for the next decade.

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3 hours ago, Lucky_13 said:

Gotta think we can get a good package with 10 teams involved. 

Maybe.  Our FO needs to determine who has made their best offer and who is going to upgrade?  I doubt many of the 10 teams, if there really are that many bidding, have put forward their best offer.  

And, if there are that many teams involved, one can understand why this would take a good bit of time.  While MM is a top player, the prospects being dealt for possibly/likely only one year of MM, the opportunity to have a year to pitch MM on their team, probably requires ownership buy-in or prodding from most every team.  

And, in turn, our FO has to figure out what to do if we are offered someone like a Carson Kelly after we asked for pitching?  Would we flip Kelly to someone for a SP?  Or trade Sisco?  

I do think this could be an iterative process with maybe only 3-5 teams surviving the cut into some time next week.  It is good to hear that some teams may be loosening their better prospects. 

Finally, what do we do with the NYY?  Keep them in hunt?  Go back to them at the end of the negotiations - after we have picked a good deal with someone like St. Louis, and offer the NYY a last chance based on a ripoff trade?  And finally, finally, if our FO is so convinced MM wants to play SS, why are they so worried about him going to NYY?

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6 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

 

The point is a simple one, and I've made it before: if you want to look at the disparities among ML teams' financial resources, you should look beyond their ML payrolls and compare their revenues and their total spending.

It may be a starting point or a good representation, but can't these numbers be skewed by the impact of the local sports network like MASN.  Os and Nats owners who also owned a piece of MASN were making good $ outside of their teams reported revenues and profits a couple years ago - per many sources.

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7 hours ago, RZNJ said:

No one is bidding against other.   Yet.    Right now, it just seems like we have 10 offers.   Now, can DD go back and get teams to compete against each other and get more out of them?    

I agree .... send us your best offer and then reduce the number down to the top 2-3 and work them against each other. I agree you'd think they can get full value with that much interest. Some GMs that are involved will go the extra mile to win the bidding imo.

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8 hours ago, RZNJ said:

No one is bidding against other.   Yet.    Right now, it just seems like we have 10 offers.   Now, can DD go back and get teams to compete against each other and get more out of them?    

All of that negotiating takes time to go through the process of elimination.  Then Dan, Buck and others have to decide which offer to bring to ownership for intense cross examination.  Add to that, once it gets to that point, whatever team that acquires Manny is going to want a physical just as we will want that on the return players.  Looking at the calendar being only 9 days from Christmas, as much as teams want to put Manny under the Christmas tree for their fans, I also can't see teams wanting to disrupt the players schedule that close to the holiday.  Putting all those assumptions together, I don't think Manny will need to "wait near his phone" this week.  Maybe the following week.  That's when the counter on page clicks here will really start rolling.  Until then, patience while it percolates.  

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8 hours ago, Lucky_13 said:

Gotta think we can get a good package with 10 teams involved. 

I find this hard to believe. I could see 4 or 5 legitimate but most are probably low ball or garbage offers. The White Sox seem like the biggest joke if they are not offering up those two pitchers mentioned earlier. I'm going out on the limb right now and predict Machado will be our starting third baseman come April.

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