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Any Clarity on Last Night's Sanchez/Stanton Situation

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8 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I honestly don't know if he KNEW he could block the plate, he may have, but I think what he knew was that he HAD to block the plate to stop the runner from scoring. Great athletic play by Givens and Joseph.

Glad too that Gregorius didn't come in spikes first. That could have been disastrous.

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11 hours ago, tntoriole said:

I think having a rookie manager is going to cost the Yankees more than once this year. 

I agree. Just look at the base running errors and fielding in the last 2 games. They don't seem to be as prepared as a JG yankee team. Not that I'm complaining.

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4 hours ago, Malike said:

Will be interesting to see how guys like he and Kapler are going to fare. Kapler in particular is managing like he's playing OoTP. He's such a brilliant analytical mind, he knows all the stats, he lives by the bible of Bill James. They are ready to run him out of Philly already lol.

Knowing the stats and knowing how and when to use the stats are 2 different things.

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12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Interesting, didn't read or hear that. If they did practice that in spring training then Buck deserves some credit here as well. Fantastic job of preparing his team to be successful in the weirdest of circumstances.

It was mentioned in todays broadcast that they practiced it cause Caleb had to know which runner to tag first.

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12 hours ago, weams said:

I doubt coming from that family that he is a flop Or particularly ignorant of the rulebook. I do think he is overly reliant on the data not factoring external circumstances. 

His pedigree doesn't mean he will or wont be a flop. 

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2 minutes ago, Dannyboy said:

Knowing the stats and knowing how and when to use the stats are 2 different things.

You missed my point. He sorta only cares about the stats. Many people scoff at the "old school" managers who don't regurgitate everything they've read on fangraphs and rely solely on the statistical side of the game. Kapler has always been "all about the stats". We get to see how it plays out by the numbers now. If it works, they can just plug computers in as Managers because they can always choose the best player for every situation according to the numbers. I think humans will be managing for the next century or so.

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11 hours ago, Going Underground said:

One of the NY writers was on and said they wanted Boone because he is better with the media then Girardi. We shall see about his managing . So far Yankees have had injuries and a bad bullpen and slumps. Long season could change on a dime.

Those NY writers will turn on him on a dime when they start losing. 

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Btw, is it literally their only job to know these rules.

 

Getting balls and strikes wrong so routinely is bad enough but those are judgements calls.

This is a set in stone rule that our catcher and Buck knew and these 4 clowns couldn't get correct.

That is pathetic and incompetence like that deserves punishment because they failed a very basic test of their knowledge.

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12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Interesting, didn't read or hear that. If they did practice that in spring training then Buck deserves some credit here as well. Fantastic job of preparing his team to be successful in the weirdest of circumstances.

Brittany had Buck talking about this.. excellent preparation by Buck as usual. 

http://mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20180406&content_id=271132152&vkey=news_bal&c_id=bal

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8 hours ago, Norfolk orioles said:

Btw, is it literally their only job to know these rules.

 

Getting balls and strikes wrong so routinely is bad enough but those are judgements calls.

This is a set in stone rule that our catcher and Buck knew and these 4 clowns couldn't get correct.

That is pathetic and incompetence like that deserves punishment because they failed a very basic test of their knowledge.

Yeah, there really should be a consequence.    

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9 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Brittany had Buck talking about this.. excellent preparation by Buck as usual. 

http://mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20180406&content_id=271132152&vkey=news_bal&c_id=bal

I don't know that this is "preparation" as much as it is a basic job as being a manager. Heck, even I knew that rule and I'm just a fan. Buck should know that rule just like every manager in baseball should as part of their job. It is embarrassing that the umpires didn't know, though. That's pretty pathetic. Strike zones I can deal with, but they absolutely must be able to get these very basic rules right.

As for people laughing at Boone for checking on whether the "blocking the plate" rule applied to pitchers, I think it was smart to check and make sure especially in that situation. Here's the deal. The rule was implemented to prevent serious injuries to catchers due to collisions at the plate even though catchers wear protective gear. It stands to reason that if a catcher, who wears protective gear is NOT allowed to block the plate without the ball, then a pitcher (or any other position player) who does NOT wear protective gear would be at a much higher risk of serious injury and would also not be allowed to block the plate. If catchers aren't allowed, but pitchers are, then the rule becomes nonsensical and should either be changed or removed entirely.

Great play by Givens, though. I think he was just going on instinct there to prevent the run and probably didn't care or know whether he was allowed to block the plate or not. If he doesn't try, the Orioles lose. However, Givens could have been seriously injured and if pitchers start doing this, that's exactly what's going to happen and people will wonder why the rule only applied to catchers. People like to wait for something to go wrong to be concerned and outraged. If catchers can't block the plate without the ball, then certainly no other player should be allowed to. Wonder who the first pitcher will be who is involved in the next violent collision at the plate and how much time he misses due to injury? I bet everyone will blame the guy trying to score, too.

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1 minute ago, Sessh said:

I don't know that this is "preparation" as much as it is a basic job as being a manager. Heck, even I knew that rule and I'm just a fan. Buck should know that rule just like every manager in baseball should as part of their job. It is embarrassing that the umpires didn't know, though. That's pretty pathetic. Strike zones I can deal with, but they absolutely must be able to get these very basic rules right.

As for people laughing at Boone for checking on whether the "blocking the plate" rule applied to pitchers, I think it was smart to check and make sure especially in that situation. Here's the deal. The rule was implemented to prevent serious injuries to catchers due to collisions at the plate even though catchers wear protective gear. It stands to reason that if a catcher, who wears protective gear is NOT allowed to block the plate without the ball, then a pitcher (or any other position player) who does NOT wear protective gear would be at a much higher risk of serious injury and would also not be allowed to block the plate. If catchers aren't allowed, but pitchers are, then the rule becomes nonsensical and should either be changed or removed entirely.

Great play by Givens, though. I think he was just going on instinct there to prevent the run and probably didn't care or know whether he was allowed to block the plate or not. If he doesn't try, the Orioles lose. However, Givens could have been seriously injured and if pitchers start doing this, that's exactly what's going to happen and people will wonder why the rule only applied to catchers. People like to wait for something to go wrong to be concerned and outraged. If catchers can't block the plate without the ball, then certainly no other player should be allowed to. Wonder who the first pitcher will be who is involved in the next violent collision at the plate and how much time he misses due to injury? I bet everyone will blame the guy trying to score, too.

99% of pitchers wouldn’t have been able to make that play.   

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Just now, Frobby said:

99% of pitchers wouldn’t have been able to make that play.   

I was wondering yesterday if a relief pitcher had ever won a gold glove.

I do think Givens might be the best defending pitcher in the league.

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3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

99% of pitchers wouldn’t have been able to make that play.   

99% of pitchers would be too afraid to even try to make that play. If this is allowed, I expect more will try, though.

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This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but please just take a breath and keep an open mind ...

I believe that the umpires (by pure luck, because it seemed clear they didn't know the rule) got the call right. I know, I know, there was an expert and they came out and said they got it wrong, but I think that is because everybody is so focused on the rule, yet nobody seems to have noticed that the rule should never have come into play in the first place. I actually believe Stanton (not sure if intentionally) made a good base running decision on the play ...

OK, let me explain ...

First, a bit of context ... let's imagine a hit and run play for a moment ... the runner on second takes off for third, the pitch is delivered and a line drive to the left fielder is caught while the runner has already rounded third base and started toward home ... it is pretty common knowledge that in order to avoid being doubled up at second, the runner must go back and tag third on his way back to second base ... that's because he is officially still making his way back to third base (on the base path between third and home) until he touches third and heads back toward second base ...

Another example to help illustrate the point ... a hitter hits a ball in the gap and immediately decides to go for two bases (a double) ... he misses first base and slides into second base before the tag on the relay throw ... how does the defense get him out? They must throw the ball to first base and get the force out ... why? Because technically/officially the runner is considered on the base path from home to first base and has yet to arrive at his destination safely ... therefore the force play is still alive and throwing the ball to first base is a force out, since the runner never safely touched first base ...

OK, OK, get to the point ... on this particular play, Stanton never touched third base when Joseph was chasing him back to the bag ... therefore, he cannot be considered either "on third base" OR "on the base path between second and third base ... so it is impossible to consider Sanchez to have "passed him on the base paths" and so Sanchez should still be safe ... Stanton did run out of the base path, so he should be called out for that being in foul territory and no longer within what is considered the official base path ...

Had Stanton actually touched third base and then headed toward left field as he did, then once he touched third and continued on, that means he is officially on the base path between second and third base and Sanchez, with his foot still in contact with the bag (third base) is officially past Stanton on the base paths ... and THIS I believe is what Buck and Joseph were arguing for and the O's were practicing in Spring Training ... I think the O's having practiced the play had them eager and ready to execute it and so Joseph likely didn't even notice (or tried to pull the wool over the umpires' eyes) and did what he should have to get two outs by first tagging Sanchez and then Stanton ... a heads-up play whether he knew Stanton did or did not touch the bag ...

Either way, it is a really interesting discussion and this rule is now something that more people are aware of, however I think this tiny detail that Stanton didn't touch the bag is being overlooked because this is a rule that many people were unaware of ...

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