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Greg Pappas

Orioles hiring Eddie Murray as Special Advisor

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1 minute ago, SteveA said:

Eddie went on to play significant time for the Dodgers, Mets, Indians, and 90s Orioles.   Were there any type of those "issues" with those teams?

If Eddie had an attitude problem, it was that he couldn't stand losing, he couldn't stand baseball being played the wrong way.   That wasn't the Oriole way that was inculcated in him from the age of 19.   Maybe he didn't react well to being on the worst team in baseball for a 2+ year span (August 1986-the end of 1988).

Eddie's teammates, from Cal on down have universally said he was a great teammate, so no, I do not think Rosenthal was right.

Look, Eddie had a grudge against reporters dating back to Dick Young in 1979.   It made him very guarded around them.   And maybe he didn't deal with THEM very fairly.   Maybe he was even somewhat of a bully to the media.   That's not admirable, it's a character flaw.   But it does not mean he was a bad teammate or a cancer in the clubhouse as Rosenthal painted him.   None of his teammates ever thought he was.   As Tony points out, the local media had a much greater ability to shape public opinion back then.   And I think Rosenthal abused that power to turn a lot of people in Baltimore agianst Eddie.   (And some people in Baltimore were pre-disposed to be easily turned against Eddie due to the color of his skin.   That's just a fact, and a lot of them sat in the good seats behind the dugouts where they could be easily heard on the field).

That's a good response. 

But as I said, a ballplayer and a writer didn't like each other.  He didn't like the media, the media didn't like him.  It's not a rare case in sports.  Maybe at the time the media had more of a place to shape the way people were viewed but it seems like fans at the time liked Eddie no matter what was being reported.  

 

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1 hour ago, Roy Firestone said:

I want people to know, and Ive stated on the record this week that Brooks personally wrote a letter to Peter Angelos for a role in the organization at least 20 years ago.He would be hired to talk to the young players during Spring Training , offer some insights for veteran players on defense...and  make appearances on behalf of the franchise.

HE NEVER RECEIVED A RESPONSE.

 

John Angelos is a good man who has done great work in the community and now he is rightly hiring Oriole legends to help say and do positive things for the franchise...but in the case of Brooks....this should've been done two decades ago.

Brooks will be 82, God willing, next summer....I believe this move for him was too little..too late.

I actually had no idea about this.  Fans are emotionally attached to their teams....and especially to their legendary players.  It is very disappointing that his request was met with no response, but I shouldn't have expected anything more from PA.  He set the bar unbelievably low during his reign of ringless ineptitude.  I am glad to see things at least starting to change.    

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4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's a good response. 

But as I said, a ballplayer and a writer didn't like each other.  He didn't like the media, the media didn't like him.  It's not a rare case in sports.  Maybe at the time the media had more of a place to shape the way people were viewed but it seems like fans at the time liked Eddie no matter what was being reported.  

 

Not at all.   A lot of fans bought into the Eddie-is-a-cancer thing.   It got pretty ugly at the ballpark at times in 87 and 88 when we were so bad.

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42 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

1993, last year Channel 2 had them. In 1994 a bunch of games were split with 13 and 54. They used the same announcers as HTS. Proctor, Lowenstein, Palmer.  

Wow 25 years.  Seems much more recent. Time flies.

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I really like that  they're doing stuff like this with old players. It gives the current team some connection to the franchise's history.  I know the winning is over but 2012-2016 was full of Oriole magic and players that were "Our guys" and should be connected with the good old days like this. 

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10 hours ago, SteveA said:

I think that Brady "undermined" things because he had Peter Angelos' ear.   For whatever reason, Peter thought that Brady was the smartest guy out there.   He'd ask Brady, you think we should re-sign Davis?   And Brady would say yes.   Should we trade Britton?   Brady would say the deal is not good enough.   And Peter would listen.

It's absolutely clear that Peter isn't calling the shots now.   As Roy relates above, Brooks asked to be part of the organization and Peter didn't even dignify him with an answer.   Now he is brought in with fanfare.   For years, no significant Latin American international presence, now Duquette goes on the main sports outlet in town, and without even being asked, says that's going to change.

So Brady's influence has probably waned significantly because he had PGA's ear and PGA isn't running things.   Maybe he isn't healthy enough to, either physically or perhaps dealing with early dementia.

So could a Brady-whispering-in-Peter's-ear situation start with someone like Murray and John Angelos?   I suppose anything is possible, but John seems to be his own man.   He gives every appearance of someone who wants to leverage all the resources available, whether it's engaging two former great players to help the team, or having dinner and picking the brain of the team's long time veteran leader, or throwing away old policies that are counterproductive.   Just because one owner who was in his old age leaned on a guy too much for advice above many of the other people he had hired doesn't mean that John would do the same.   He's hired new guy to run the business/promotion end too.   Last year the Orioles really upped their game with a good bunch of promotions.   This year they have added things that a lot of teams have been doing but that we hadn't before -- the 9 college nights for instance (I think they had two last year), the LGBTQ night, the dogs-at-the-park night.   All things other teams had been doing for a few years.   The kids-free thing.

Change is happening.   The Brady/Peter thing was a unique situation where an aging owner who wanted to win one before he was gone trusted the advice of someone he liked more than many of the people he had hired, especially after Duquette's Toronto flirtation, and overruled the desires of the very people he had put in charge, and constrained what they were able to do.   I see no indication that John Angelos is going down that path, in word or in action.

Their has always been somebody in the organization who has had Peter's ear.  Syd Thrift had the same situation.  Peter does not completely trust anyone, particularly his GM's.  Peter has his opinions, unfortunately the guys who has his ear also echo Peter's opinions.  Hence trades get vetoed and Peter's favorites are given bad contracts.  Then when the moves backfire, the GM is fired.   As many have pointed out, Brooks does not hold grudges, unfortunately Peter does. 

Hopefully the recent moves are an indication that the organization is changing for the better, no matter Peter's involvement. 

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10 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's a good response. 

But as I said, a ballplayer and a writer didn't like each other.  He didn't like the media, the media didn't like him.  It's not a rare case in sports.  Maybe at the time the media had more of a place to shape the way people were viewed but it seems like fans at the time liked Eddie no matter what was being reported.  

 

This has been good discussion on both sides.  If you are old enough to remember it first hand though, it is pretty different.  I always thought Eddie simply did not like being out front in the spotlight.  Maybe he got burned early and just didn't trust the press.  But whatever reason, he did pull back and the media guys burned him for it.  Was it the egg?  The chicken?  

I do not know.  But the last part of the above simply isn't true.  Eddie was booed if he struck out, or if he hit a gounder and didn't run hard.  It was not pretty and I saw it several times in person.  

I will say that I do not like booing players from the home team and that opinion was largely formed as 20 something year old fan watching one of my favorite players run out of town.  Eddie looked miserable here.  

To your point, sure I think he brought some of it on himself.  But it largely stemmed from the simple fact that he would not talk to media.  He wasn't in trouble with the law, or with MLB or anything else.  He just refused to talk and so others did for him.  No blame here, but my personal opinion was both sides were wrong, although I find it telling that even today Eddie feels its a conversation he can't win.  

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11 hours ago, 25 Nuggets said:

I don't know if any of these old legends will help really, but hey at least it's good PR.  

I think that’s mostly what this is.    Get folks to remember that the O’s once were a legendary organization, so they’ll be patient while we lose the next couple of years.  

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I'm man enough to admit that I kind of got "the feels" when Eddie was speaking to Bordick and Thorne. It's so good to see him back in the fold.

Did anyone notice when Thorne said (almost rhetorically), "You wanted to come back a long time ago, didn't you?" Very telling. It's pretty clear there's been a significant changing of the guard this season from Peter to John. The verdict's still out, but so far John's doing and saying all of the right things. This is the most positive I've felt about the franchise and the direction it's heading in a long time. 

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Eddie might have been surly with the press, but I never got the impression he as a bad teammate. I also think he was a quite and reserved person in general and think people might have misinterpreted that as him being aloof. 

Also, years ago I thought I read somewhere that Cal (and Brady) used to stay at a different hotel then the rest of the team when they were on the road. I think he chalked it up to trying to to avoid distractions and the press when he was close to breaking the consecutive games played record, but I didn't see it the same way. i saw it as him putting himself and his legacy ahead of the team. So if we're talking about good and bad teammates we should also put him under a microscope. Again, this is assuming the hotel think was true. 

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1 hour ago, foxfield said:

This has been good discussion on both sides.  If you are old enough to remember it first hand though, it is pretty different.  I always thought Eddie simply did not like being out front in the spotlight.  Maybe he got burned early and just didn't trust the press.  But whatever reason, he did pull back and the media guys burned him for it.  Was it the egg?  The chicken?  

I do not know.  But the last part of the above simply isn't true.  Eddie was booed if he struck out, or if he hit a gounder and didn't run hard.  It was not pretty and I saw it several times in person.  

I will say that I do not like booing players from the home team and that opinion was largely formed as 20 something year old fan watching one of my favorite players run out of town.  Eddie looked miserable here.  

To your point, sure I think he brought some of it on himself.  But it largely stemmed from the simple fact that he would not talk to media.  He wasn't in trouble with the law, or with MLB or anything else.  He just refused to talk and so others did for him.  No blame here, but my personal opinion was both sides were wrong, although I find it telling that even today Eddie feels its a conversation he can't win.  

I wasn't old enough to be there for Eddie getting booed but I certainly do remember Cal getting booed in '92, a year after winning the MVP where he was having the most terrible season of his career.  I remember that because I was there.

There was also the whole dust-up that he was staying at different hotels than the rest of the team.  The whole narrative that he was putting the pursuit of the Streak ahead of the team, etc.  We look at Cal with rosy glasses too but let's not forget there was a time where people were telling him to sit down, needed a day off, etc.  

I do believe part of the stuff with Eddie was race related, especially after reading the posts here.  

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1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I wasn't old enough to be there for Eddie getting booed but I certainly do remember Cal getting booed in '92, a year after winning the MVP where he was having the most terrible season of his career.  I remember that because I was there.

I do believe part of the stuff with Eddie was race related, especially after reading the posts here.  

First, I am ecstatic to see Eddie, my all-time favorite player, back in the fold.  Brought me a big smile seeing Eddie last night on MASN.

Eddie's final years in Baltimore have always been the darkest hour in my 40 years as an O's fan.  As a kid, I regularly sat in the bleachers, saw Eddie jogging to first on ground outs, with the fans booing. I have no idea what might have been in some fans' hearts, but I can tell you that I knew some of those around me booing, and it was because Eddie was not giving his all.

I suspect that some of Eddie's ill feeling can be traced all the way back to Dick Young's treatment of Eddie's family, some of it to the local media in his final years, some of it to Edward Bennett Williams' 1986 press conference stating that Eddie needed to stay in better shape and produce more.  

A great thing that Eddie hit #500 as an Oriole, has his statue, and has been welcomed back several times even before this.

 

 

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