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Anyone Following Manny? (Signs with San Diego)

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3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Prior to 2000 the Yanks had a period of dominance based mostly on home grown talent.  The 1998 Orioles had a higher payroll than the Yanks.  Since then they've surged into the $200M+ territory, 50% or more above the average.  That's when the soft cap gained traction.

From 1921-64, before free agency, before the draft, before big media revenues, the Yanks were in the Series half the time.  But they still had more resources mainly because of attendance revenues, and they used that to build up the farm.  Sure, other teams won the Series, but is that really the ratio you want?  The O's have won it three times, the Yanks 28.

Did you mean parity or parody?  Both work about equally well when you're talking about the NFL.

Nice play on words, that I can not take credit for.

I meant parity.

The 1964 Dodgers payroll was 170K

The 1964 Orioles payroll was 77K

The 1964 Yankee payroll was 377K

Except for that period when Peter was spending in his early ownership days, you can typically find the Yankees at the top of the payroll.

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16 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Nice play on words, that I can not take credit for.

I meant parity.

The 1964 Dodgers payroll was 170K

The 1964 Orioles payroll was 77K

The 1964 Yankee payroll was 377K

Except for that period when Peter was spending in his early ownership days, you can typically find the Yankees at the top of the payroll.

1964??? That seems pretty high pre-FA.

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6 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

1964??? That seems pretty high pre-FA.

Figures came from baseball refer.

White Ford was 53K

Mantle was 100K

Maris at 67K

 

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7 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Figures came from baseball refer.

White Ford was 53K

Mantle was 100K

Maris at 67K

My bad, was thinking in terms of millions, not thousands.

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8 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

My bad, was thinking in terms of millions, not thousands.

It’s mind boggling to think that the entire Yankee payroll was $377 k, less than the major league minimum for one player today.    The owners really had a sweet deal in those days.  

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1 minute ago, Frobby said:

It’s mind boggling to think that the entire Yankee payroll was $377 k, less than the major league minimum for one player today.    The owners really had a sweet deal in those days.  

It is.

Average income in that ERA was about 4.5K

Minimum wage was $1,15 or $45 a week :)

A new Chevy Impala was something like 3K.

I can still recall hearing my grandfather and father argue the high cost of Mantle's salary would ruin baseball.

 

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4 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

It is.

Average income in that ERA was about 4.5K

Minimum wage was $1,15 or $45 a week :)

A new Chevy Impala was something like 3K.

I can still recall hearing my grandfather and father argue the high cost of Mantle's salary would ruin baseball.

 

So based on your numbers, overall wages and prices have increased somewhere between 700% and 1400% in that period.   Baseball payrolls have increased by something like 50,000%.

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9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

So based on your numbers, overall wages and prices have increased somewhere between 700% and 1400% in that period.   Baseball payrolls have increased by something like 50,000%.

According to inflation index.

They say 4,500 1964 dollars would be the same spending power as 36K today.

https://www.saving.org/inflation/inflation.php?amount=4,500

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The contract situation of Manny and Bryce does not seem like collusion to me. I do think this is the new financial reality. Teams don't want to dole out $300 contracts and pay the luxury tax and wonder how much their new tv contracts are going to be. There doesn't seem to be endless revenue or another mountainous revenue stream on the horizon -- unless it is new gambling revenue.

Seems like a bunch of posturing by players and their agents. 

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

It’s mind boggling to think that the entire Yankee payroll was $377 k, less than the major league minimum for one player today.    The owners really had a sweet deal in those days.  

They also didn't go out of their way to grow revenues, and they didn't have to when you could pay your entire $77k yearly payroll with one Memorial Stadium's worth of $1.50 tickets.  $77k in 1964 is the rough equivalent of $620k today, or about 1/3rd of the ticket revenues they'll make on opening day.  

I don't know all of the details of how radio and TV became part of sports, but I have a general feeling that it was more adversarial than cooperative for a long time.  Today media revenues drive everything, but in the 1950s owners were terrified that nobody would come to the park if they could watch the game at home.  Similar thoughts with regard to radio in the 20s and 30s. That's probably why they were very cautious, and nobody tried to get a station to put every game on the air for $1M.

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43 minutes ago, jtschrei said:

The contract situation of Manny and Bryce does not seem like collusion to me. I do think this is the new financial reality. Teams don't want to dole out $300 contracts and pay the luxury tax and wonder how much their new tv contracts are going to be. There doesn't seem to be endless revenue or another mountainous revenue stream on the horizon -- unless it is new gambling revenue.

Seems like a bunch of posturing by players and their agents. 

What new financial reality?  Revenues are still very high, maybe the highest of all time.  And how many teams are subject to the luxury tax?  Yanks, Sox and Dodgers?  Anyone else?  The Yanks' revenues were over $600M last year, and their payroll was under $200M for the first time in years.

The average MLB team brought in over $300M, and the average payroll was something like $130M.  A $30M contract would be less than 1/10th of an average team's revenues.

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38 minutes ago, jtschrei said:

The contract situation of Manny and Bryce does not seem like collusion to me. I do think this is the new financial reality. Teams don't want to dole out $300 contracts and pay the luxury tax and wonder how much their new tv contracts are going to be. There doesn't seem to be endless revenue or another mountainous revenue stream on the horizon -- unless it is new gambling revenue.

Seems like a bunch of posturing by players and their agents. 

If the players do strike - I think they are going to have a tough time from a public relations standpoint because of the things you just said. I believe players and owners should share all profit equally - and many journalists have been pointing out that mega-rich owners have taken advantage of players frequently throughout the game's history. We'd all be foolish to think that lower player payrolls would suddenly result in cheaper tickets and hot dogs.

But, I don't think typical fans see it that way. They just see players as rich and owners as rich; there's no big-guy/little-guy scenario like most union disputes.

So, I think fan patience quickly grows thin when they see one group of rich people stopping baseball to become more rich. They don't really care if the players are getting 45% or 50%, because they're already plenty rich enough.

And also, I think American culture doesn't really have a problem with rich businessmen turning a profit on an investment. So, I think the players have an uphill battle here.

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9 minutes ago, theocean said:

If the players do strike - I think they are going to have a tough time from a public relations standpoint because of the things you just said. I believe players and owners should share all profit equally - and many journalists have been pointing out that mega-rich owners have taken advantage of players frequently throughout the game's history. We'd all be foolish to think that lower player payrolls would suddenly result in cheaper tickets and hot dogs.

But, I don't think typical fans see it that way. They just see players as rich and owners as rich; there's no big-guy/little-guy scenario like most union disputes.

So, I think fan patience quickly grows thin when they see one group of rich people stopping baseball to become more rich. They don't really care if the players are getting 45% or 50%, because they're already plenty rich enough.

And also, I think American culture doesn't really have a problem with rich businessmen turning a profit on an investment. So, I think the players have an uphill battle here.

As I said earlier they need to frame their argument better.  Mention how Cesar Hernandez has been under team control since 2006.  Mention how Acuna is going to be making the ML minimum in 2020.  Act like you care about the minor leaguers and mention how they don't even make minimum wage.

 

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13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

As I said earlier they need to frame their argument better.  Mention how Cesar Hernandez has been under team control since 2006.  Mention how Acuna is going to be making the ML minimum in 2020.  Act like you care about the minor leaguers and mention how they don't even make minimum wage.

 

Just say Yanks revenues $620M.  Yanks payroll $180M.  That guy playing second base for their A ball team: $1200 a month, sleeping on the floor with seven other guys.

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Even if taking less in Salary to sign with the Yankees I imagine playing for New York would lead to more endorsements and better marketing for the Machado brand which would result in overall more money and with NY the best chance to win multible Championships.

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