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Roll Tide

Lamar Jackson Discussion with Poll

What is your prediction on Lamar?  

19 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your prediction for Lamar?

    • MVP in the making! (Long career including playoff and a Super bowl)
      0
    • NFL Starter (Better career with Ravens than Joe Flacco)
    • Mediocre starter for Ravens (that last beyond his Rookie contract)
    • Bust - (Doesnt get 5th year club option due to poor performance or serious injury)


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You seemed to indicate that there were two side to this fence, that you like Lamar and ignore the rest or you dont like him.

That is too simplistic.  I think as a QB Lamar bring intangibles not seen since Michael Vick, but that while raw as a passer (not completely inept as some would state) he shows the tools to become a good QB.

I accept he has flaws and think that with development he can overcome those flaws.  I think he could be a better passer than Flacco ever was but doesnt need to be to be successful in this league.  The ravens are going to try and win in a different way and that wont sit right with a lot of people, but I see their ball control, run for 250 offense, as a refreshing counter the direction offenses are trying to go and few can get to.  

That said, the overall success of this strategy and Jacksons ultimate success depends on his and the coaching staffs ability to develop him.  He has to hold on to the ball better.  He has to be able to utilize the field horizontally from the pocket.

But you cant look at a guy who went 5-1 and say he his bereft of talent and never had any business being an NFL QB.  And any blindness to his improvement over the course of those games is sincere ignorance of what your eyes should have told you and what the analysts were saying.  I would love to have a meaningful conversation about that, but the haters arent willing to discuss where he succeeded and have a meaning conversation.

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40 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

You seemed to indicate that there were two side to this fence, that you like Lamar and ignore the rest or you dont like him.

That is too simplistic.  I think as a QB Lamar bring intangibles not seen since Michael Vick, but that while raw as a passer (not completely inept as some would state) he shows the tools to become a good QB.

I accept he has flaws and think that with development he can overcome those flaws.  I think he could be a better passer than Flacco ever was but doesnt need to be to be successful in this league.  The ravens are going to try and win in a different way and that wont sit right with a lot of people, but I see their ball control, run for 250 offense, as a refreshing counter the direction offenses are trying to go and few can get to.  

That said, the overall success of this strategy and Jacksons ultimate success depends on his and the coaching staffs ability to develop him.  He has to hold on to the ball better.  He has to be able to utilize the field horizontally from the pocket.

But you cant look at a guy who went 5-1 and say he his bereft of talent and never had any business being an NFL QB.  And any blindness to his improvement over the course of those games is sincere ignorance of what your eyes should have told you and what the analysts were saying.  I would love to have a meaningful conversation about that, but the haters arent willing to discuss where he succeeded and have a meaning conversation.

We can agree to disagree on many things and I respect that. But you could bet your house on the fact that Jackson will never be the pure passer that Joe is/was for the Ravens.

Also it's about 99% unlikely that Lamar is ever able to match what Joe has done.

So Joe is 97-67 with a 10-5 in the post season that includes a super bowl win.

i think we will know what we have in two seasons. And I'm wagering the Lamar faithful is going to be very disappointed. I know Bisciotti will put the selection and wasted draft capital on Newsome. But I'm wondering if they will also put it on Harbaugh.

IMO...There are just too many warts. 

1) Poor Footwork

2) Poor throwing motion 

3) Finger on the nose of the ball -hand size?

4)ball security (wondering how long he gets away with 2 cough ups per game

5) Run first instinct and 16 years of muscle memory doing things wrong

Things he can't control

1) Poor offensive coaching (under Harbs it hurt Joe / no reason to expect improvement)

2) Crappy Oline

3) mediocre RB roster (Edwards/Dixon/Collins are good but not stars)

4) Ravens have already said they won't move from the QB option that will minimize risk of serious injury. Sure pocket passers can get injured but Lamar runs with the ball 1/3 of the snaps -Equals higher possibility of injury. It only takes 1 bad hit.

5) WR ....can't develop them and won't persuade anyone of the high ego #1 types to come here know that 65+%of the snaps are RB run or QB option. Why would anyone come here to have their career die at the hands of distribution that was on display this past fall.

 

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1 hour ago, WORST OWNER said:

 

Lamar Jackson, is a fumbler and will always be one. If Joe had an offensive line he would light it up!

 

I agree that his ball security is always going to be a problem. If Joe had a better line and a number one receiver. There are fans on Lamars bandwagon whom I believe will be very sorry that they dumped Joe before it's all over.

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Whether Lamar fails or succeeds, I doubt any of his fans will be too sorry about dumping Joe. His time was up and he wore out his welcome with mediocre at best play. Just because Lamar is or isn't the QB of the future doesn't change the situation with Joe at this point in his career.

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1 hour ago, dorfmac said:

Whether Lamar fails or succeeds, I doubt any of his fans will be too sorry about dumping Joe. His time was up and he wore out his welcome with mediocre at best play. Just because Lamar is or isn't the QB of the future doesn't change the situation with Joe at this point in his career.

I think dumping Joe is a mistake. It's not like he's 40! His play has certainly been a problem but you read article after article about needing to add offensive talent around Lamar.

Just because Joe is beyond his rookie deal doesn't mean his offense should lack talent and offensive imagination. Marty M is just another example of Harbaugh's inability to identify a competent OC. We mentioned Kubiak as really the only Quality one during Joe's tenure here. That's freakin pathetic! 

We've never had a #1 receiver and he managed to win the Super Bowl with a pair of #2/3 types in Boldin and T Smith. Their inability at drafting and developing WR have doomed our offense 

After releasing Ray Rice for his poor decisions the Ravens needed to go get a stud RB. Did they? No ......They've ran with second tier guys like Collins, Allen,  Edwards, and Dixon.

The blame here shouldn't be on Joe as much as the failure of our front office and coaching staff since gutting the team after the Super Bowl

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When I think of run first QB's with poor throwing technique and accuracy issues, not a lot of success stories come to mind. Don't tell my Son how I voted. He's a huge Lamar fan.

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2 hours ago, Satyr3206 said:

When I think of run first QB's with poor throwing technique and accuracy issues, not a lot of success stories come to mind. Don't tell my Son how I voted. He's a huge Lamar fan.

None have won a super bowl and RG3 is the perfect example of the injury risk

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On 2/6/2019 at 11:13 AM, Roll Tide said:

We can agree to disagree on many things and I respect that. But you could bet your house on the fact that Jackson will never be the pure passer that Joe is/was for the Ravens.

Also it's about 99% unlikely that Lamar is ever able to match what Joe has done.

So Joe is 97-67 with a 10-5 in the post season that includes a super bowl win.

i think we will know what we have in two seasons. And I'm wagering the Lamar faithful is going to be very disappointed. I know Bisciotti will put the selection and wasted draft capital on Newsome. But I'm wondering if they will also put it on Harbaugh.

IMO...There are just too many warts. 

1) Poor Footwork

2) Poor throwing motion 

3) Finger on the nose of the ball -hand size?

4)ball security (wondering how long he gets away with 2 cough ups per game

5) Run first instinct and 16 years of muscle memory doing things wrong

Things he can't control

1) Poor offensive coaching (under Harbs it hurt Joe / no reason to expect improvement)

2) Crappy Oline

3) mediocre RB roster (Edwards/Dixon/Collins are good but not stars)

4) Ravens have already said they won't move from the QB option that will minimize risk of serious injury. Sure pocket passers can get injured but Lamar runs with the ball 1/3 of the snaps -Equals higher possibility of injury. It only takes 1 bad hit.

5) WR ....can't develop them and won't persuade anyone of the high ego #1 types to come here know that 65+%of the snaps are RB run or QB option. Why would anyone come here to have their career die at the hands of distribution that was on display this past fall.

 

All the stats and great things Joe did in the past are exactly that, IN THE PAST.  His sub .500 record in the past 4 years and missing multiple games in 2 of 4 seasons show his decline. His high salary doesn't match his output. It's time Joe moves on and go in another direction and IF that is Lamar, so be it.

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12 hours ago, Mitch Connor said:

All the stats and great things Joe did in the past are exactly that, IN THE PAST.  His sub .500 record in the past 4 years and missing multiple games in 2 of 4 seasons show his decline. His high salary doesn't match his output. It's time Joe moves on and go in another direction and IF that is Lamar, so be it.

So you don’t put any of it on the lack of a quality OC? Do you acknowledge the line has been poor? If you do it easy to attribute the injuries to that. Do you acknowledge that we haven’t had s legit RB since Rice was cut? Do you acknowledge that Joe hasn’t had a #1 reciever and rarely had a number 2?

Even at TE the team did well when Pitta healthy enough to play. The rest of the TE talent with Max Williams and Boyle were very mediocre.

If Joe was indeed the problem why such a heavy emphasis now to “surround Lamar with Talent”

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3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

So you don’t put any of it on the lack of a quality OC? Do you acknowledge the line has been poor? If you do it easy to attribute the injuries to that. Do you acknowledge that we haven’t had s legit RB since Rice was cut? Do you acknowledge that Joe hasn’t had a #1 reciever and rarely had a number 2?

Even at TE the team did well when Pitta healthy enough to play. The rest of the TE talent with Max Williams and Boyle were very mediocre.

If Joe was indeed the problem why such a heavy emphasis now to “surround Lamar with Talent”

You want a reply? Why, so you can just ignore it and post the same thing over repeatedly? 

-(You) Bad offensive line   (My response) Joe stands in pocket and takes sacks (and gets beat up) rather than throw ball away, which would be a smart VETERAN move

-(You) No #1 receiver  (My response) Team has brought in veterans and draft picks, but has Joe elevated the talent around him? I'm not so sure

-(You) If Joe was indeed the problem why such a heavy emphasis now to “surround Lamar with Talent”  (My response) With a QB in a cheap rookie contract, team can afford to go out and get talent, but when that rookie scale contract is up, things change.

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I would choose option 2 (NFL Starter), but can't say with confidence that he'll have a "Better career with the Ravens than Joe Flacco". He may win a Super Bowl someday (I hope), but overall, I suspect he'll never throw for the yards that Joe has/did. 

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