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Aristotelian

Hyde's Decisions 2019

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22 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

The game thread is different, Tony-OH allows us to ramble and rant about the game, due to the heat of the moment.

Yeah, the game thread is where the emotional posts go and I'm fine with that. We lax the rules greatly in there unless someone goes way over the line. We all can be emotional during the heat of the moment. Your truly included. We're fans, we are emotionally involved in the games because it's fun, but there comes that time to step back and analyze the situation and that's what the rest of the board is for.

Those that are unable to are the ones that laughed out (privately and sometimes publicly) and filled with negative feedback! I typically just shake my head and ignore the totally ignorant posters/posts, but sometime I have to step in for the good of the board. 

BTW, while I disagree with his viewpoint, @Yachtsman has been able to disagree respectfully.   

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19 minutes ago, esmd said:

I will say, I did appreciate Hess showing the desire to stay in the game and pushing back on Hyde when he pulled him.  That's what you want out of a pitcher, that bulldog mentality.  And I'm still glad that Hyde ignored that and pulled him for his own good.

This is a good point. I liked everything I saw last night on how everyone dealt with the situation. Hess gave his thoughts, Hyde though smiled, understood like a good leader does, but ultimately made the call he felt was best for all involved. 

The fact that he knew he only had three relievers available really, and two were Araujo (AA guy at best right now), post surgery Bleier (who has been hit around), and Wright (Had already pitched in 2 of 3 games) and it took even more gumption to pull him at 82-pitches.

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1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

 

It's a shame that the bullpen couldn't maintain the no-no.

Brings back memories of the 3 pitcher no-no that the Birds threw against the A's in 1991.

 

o

 

Also, it was mildly reminiscent of when Chris Tillman pitched 6 innings of no-hit ball in the 2nd game of the season in 2011, and was removed from the game.

Tillman was at 101 pitches, plus the game was tied (as opposed to the Orioles having a 6-run lead in last night's game when Hess departed) ........ but the similarities are that is was a young Oriole pitcher being removed from a game without having given up any hits at an extremely early portion of the season (April 2nd.)

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TBA/TBA201104020.shtml

 

 

2011's Near No-Hitters

(Sports Illustrated Staff)

https://www.si.com/mlb/photos/2011/06/162011s-near-no-hitters#2

 

CHRIS TILLMAN, ORIOLES

The 22-year-old right-hander lost his no-hit bid without giving up a hit. After six innings of no-hit ball against the Rays, Tillman ...... who threw a no-hitter last April while in Triple-A ...... was pulled by manager Buck Showalter because of his pitch-count. Reliever Jeremy Accardo then gave up a two-out single to B.J. Upton in the seventh to end Baltimore's hopes of a combined no-hitter.

 

o

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5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This is a good point. I liked everything I saw last night on how everyone dealt with the situation. Hess gave his thoughts, Hyde though smiled, understood like a good leader does, but ultimately made the call he felt was best for all involved. 

The fact that he knew he only had three relievers available really, and two were Araujo (AA guy at best right now), post surgery Bleier (who has been hit around), and Wright (Had already pitched in 2 of 3 games) and it took even more gumption to pull him at 82-pitches.

Part of the issue is pulling his starters early.  Before last nights game no starter has gone more than 4 innings.  I thought he pulled Cashner early for a game we were most likely going to lose.  Then the next game you have a bullpen game.  Hyde will work things out I am sure. Just the current bullpen management is not going to work long term. 

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19 minutes ago, Natty said:

Maybe we shouldn't use our scheduled starters as relievers the same week. 

Maybe, but, and I'm just spitballing here, maybe if our starters were Palmer, McNally, Cuellar, and Dobson, we wouldn't use starters as relievers, but we don't have 4 20 game winners and we only get to have 25 players.   We may not have 4 guys who throw 5 innings in 20 games.  Mathematically, it's pretty certain that we see some strange stuff.***

Some of it may be explained by the new analytics and some of it may be situational.  But it is going to be hard to manage innings with this group.

 

***We haven't even gotten to the long stretches of consecutive games without off days.  Me thinks we need to hang on.  It could get a little bumpy from here.

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14 minutes ago, Natty said:

Maybe we shouldn't use our scheduled starters as relievers the same week. 

Exactly. If Hyde is so worried about Hess going past his pitch count - why is he pitching as a reliever in the same week? 

Also Hyde said he only had three bullpen arms he felt comfortable using in the game - I'm assuming Arajuo, Wright, and Bleier. If the Jays tie the game in the ninth - who pitches in extras? He's not worried about the bullpen's health? It just doesn't add up.

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4 minutes ago, theocean said:

Exactly. If Hyde is so worried about Hess going past his pitch count - why is he pitching as a reliever in the same week? 

Also Hyde said he only had three bullpen arms he felt comfortable using in the game - I'm assuming Arajuo, Wright, and Bleier. If the Jays tie the game in the ninth - who pitches in extras? He's not worried about the bullpen's health? It just doesn't add up.

Well starting Saturday we have 19 straight games. I am not sure who comes up with the schedule in having 3 days off in the first week and then playing 19 games in a row.  Silly having days off after each teams opening day. 

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3 minutes ago, theocean said:

Exactly. If Hyde is so worried about Hess going past his pitch count - why is he pitching as a reliever in the same week? 

Also Hyde said he only had three bullpen arms he felt comfortable using in the game - I'm assuming Arajuo, Wright, and Bleier. If the Jays tie the game in the ninth - who pitches in extras? He's not worried about the bullpen's health? It just doesn't add up.

Because the team is trying to avoid using Araujo until he can be sent down to Bowie or wherever without having to be offered back.

Even last night with a 6-0 lead Araujo quickly let the Jays back in the game. 

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11 minutes ago, atomic said:

If you saw Hyde sweating on the bench profusely before the last out was made I think he was having second thoughts about his pitching decisions during the game.  

The players seem to like Hyde which is great.  The team is winning.  I have no problem removing Hess  in retrospect.   Hopefully Hess keeps continuing to develop.  I am not sure why everyone is so down on his future. He looked better than some of the veteran pitchers last season and he throws hard and has secondary pitches.  

I certainly don't think the manager should be thinking his team will be ending up in last place.  He should try and win as most games as possible during the season with keeping an eye on the future.  

Who is down on his future? Hess had his best fastball command yesterday and primarily used that pitch along with his slider. The issues with Hess has always been consistency, not talent. Being mainly a two-pitch guy and his consistency issues in the minors and last year suggest he'd be better in a relief role at some point, but clearly he's a big league pitcher and clearly a guy who belongs in the rotation for the Orioles right now.

As for Hyde, what makes you think he's not doing just that? Have we seen him give up a game yet? He he ever said he's not trying to win as many games as possible? Do you think he told his clubhouse that he thinks they are last place team? I can guarantee he is trying to win every game, but he's not going to burn out a young guy along the way.

My only concern so far was how hard he pushed Givens through that 2nd inning in Sunday's game. Part of that though is not having any other good options, something that will hopefully be rectified once Aruajo can be sent packing and Bleier either regains his magic or or is optioned.
 

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24 minutes ago, atomic said:

Part of the issue is pulling his starters early.  Before last nights game no starter has gone more than 4 innings.  I thought he pulled Cashner early for a game we were most likely going to lose.  Then the next game you have a bullpen game.  Hyde will work things out I am sure. Just the current bullpen management is not going to work long term. 

I doubt anyone thinks this can last long term, Hyde included. But he's managing with the hand he is dealt. Cobb returning should help as will jettisoning Araujo. 

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3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 Who is down on his future? Hess had his best fastball command yesterday and primarily used that pitch along with his slider. The issues with Hess has always been consistency, not talent. Being mainly a two-pitch guy and his consistency issues in the minors and last year suggest he'd be better in a relief role at some point, but clearly he's a big league pitcher and clearly a guy who belongs in the rotation for the Orioles right now.
 
As for Hyde, what makes you think he's not doing just that? Have we seen him give up a game yet? He he ever said he's not trying to win as many games as possible? Do you think he told his clubhouse that he thinks they are last place team? I can guarantee he is trying to win every game, but he's not going to burn out a young guy along the way.

 My only concern so far was how hard he pushed Givens through that 2nd inning in Sunday's game. Part of that though is not having any other good options, something that will hopefully be rectified once Aruajo can be sent packing and Bleier either regains his magic or or is optioned.
  

People said that Hyde should have kept Hess in because he doesn't have much future anyway. 

I am quoting you on you saying the team is most likely going to finish in last place.   Hyde is new to management I havent' seen anything I don't really like yet.  I am giving him the benefit of the doubt on these moves but I don't think the way he is running the bullpen is sustainable once we hit our 19 game stretch of straight games. Maybe there will be some rain outs.  

I wonder what the team sees in Pedro to keep him even for these games.  He is older.  He hasn't pitched above A level in the minors.  I am not sure he has the stuff to be a quality reliever in the big leagues.  If you perceive he has big league stuff and can contribute than keeping him makes sense but otherwise what is the point? 

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7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:


My only concern so far was how hard he pushed Givens through that 2nd inning in Sunday's game. Part of that though is not having any other good options, something that will hopefully be rectified once Aruajo can be sent packing and Bleier either regains his magic or or is optioned.
 

Think he will be optioned soon? He didn't look good in the Spring or his first two outings. Didn't seem to be fully healed or trust himself to throw like he usually does.

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Just now, atomic said:

People said that Hyde should have kept Hess in because he doesn't have much future anyway. 

I am quoting you on you saying the team is most likely going to finish in last place.   Hyde is new to management I havent' seen anything I don't really like yet.  I am giving him the benefit of the doubt on these moves but I don't think the way he is running the bullpen is sustainable once we hit our 19 game stretch of straight games. Maybe there will be some rain outs.  

I wonder what the team sees in Pedro to keep him even for these games.  He is older.  He hasn't pitched above A level in the minors.  I am not sure he has the stuff to be a quality reliever in the big leagues.  If you perceive he has big league stuff and can contribute than keeping him makes sense but otherwise what is the point? 

Sure, and as an analyst, I think the team will end up in last place and probably around 100 losses, but that doesn't mean anyone in that locker room should agree with me. In fact, I hope they don't. We should all want them to believe in themselves and win as many games as possible. 

As for Araujo, I've said in other threads that I'm not sure what the deal is with him as well. The guy we saw in spring and obviously in his first appearance is nowhere near a major league pitcher. That fastball is awful (90-91 and straight). If he had Tanner Scott stuff but just couldn't command I'd understand keeping him, but he's a one trick pony with a well below average fastball.

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8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I doubt anyone thinks this can last long term, Hyde included. But he's managing with the hand he is dealt. Cobb returning should help as will jettisoning Araujo. 

Good point about Cobb. I guess one of the utility guys goes when he comes off the DL.   

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1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I doubt anyone thinks this can last long term, Hyde included. But he's managing with the hand he is dealt. Cobb returning should help as will jettisoning Araujo. 

Right.  It can't last.  It's a strain playing two days in a row.  And he is going to make decisions on any number of things that will look different.  Pushing Givens deep, pulling Hess early are just two.  But I think it's pretty clear both were calculated to get the most out of both the player and the situation. And the new group, including Hyde, is going to screw up.  They will cost us a game.  

Of course, if this is truly a 100 loss team, then we are going to lose about 63% of the games and we have won 75% so far.  Let's give all these guys some room.  Not a free pass, mind you, but let's let em grow and make some mistakes.  

So far, Hyde shows moxie and I appreciate his moxie playing with a handicapped hand.  But I wanna see how he does when it comes apart too.  You know as they follow the process....

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