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WalkWithElias

Grayson Rodriguez 2019

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Just now, OrioleDog said:

Lavish assessment of the raw talent, but noted struggles from stretch (understandable - imagine HS was a lot of near no-hitters), and that the curve and slider blurred a little bit (also feels pretty common to me for really young pro pitchers figuring out their best breaking ball).  This report was on Team Slider (had it Future 60).

The breaking balls have blurred the two starts I’ve seen. I’m not worried about that, they flash distinctly. He does lose a tick or two from the stretch it seems, although I haven’t seen it hurt his effectiveness. I’m much more in agreement with these assessments.

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12 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

The kid is 19, I don't expect big league stamina from a 19 year old kid still growing into his body/routine. So this is a case of do you trust Law or every other publicly available analysis. What are the recommended changes anyways? I agree that the mechanics aren't ideal, but there isn't an easy fix, his arm stab is his timing mechanism. The lower half is fine for a guy his size, maybe you gradually get him a little further down the mound, but I completely disagree with Law that the lower half isn't working. Pitching isn't linear, it's rotational, linear drive towards the plate is a fairly minimal component of velocity. A big guy doesn't need it, his easy stride down the mound probably is a big part of why the command is good for his age with a sub-optimal arm action. You change that, maybe he can't throw strikes.

Without getting into an argument (maybe I don't fully understand what you are trying to convey and I am not talking specifically about Grayson) but, I disagree with this statement. Linear progression down the mound, creates energy from the back side leg. This is critical for both velocity and command. I've been fortunate enough to discuss this a pretty good length with some very high caliber folks. If you are trying to say that not everyone has the same "optimal load" on the back side, then I agree completely. Everyone is different. 

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12 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

The kid is 19, I don't expect big league stamina from a 19 year old kid still growing into his body/routine. So this is a case of do you trust Law or every other publicly available analysis. What are the recommended changes anyways? I agree that the mechanics aren't ideal, but there isn't an easy fix, his arm stab is his timing mechanism. The lower half is fine for a guy his size, maybe you gradually get him a little further down the mound, but I completely disagree with Law that the lower half isn't working. Pitching isn't linear, it's rotational, linear drive towards the plate is a fairly minimal component of velocity. A big guy doesn't need it, his easy stride down the mound probably is a big part of why the command is good for his age with a sub-optimal arm action. You change that, maybe he can't throw strikes.

I completely agree with this point. Here's what I think is the deciding factors before you consider an intervention.

1. Pain/Health - Are they experiencing abnormal/significant pain during the game or immediately afterwards. 

2. Recovery - Are they able to recovery properly within the appropriate time frame.

3. Is their velocity/command on par with their peers.

4. Are they getting guys out.

He checks all these boxes. Leave him alone until he doesn't

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4 hours ago, MCO'sFan said:

Without getting into an argument (maybe I don't fully understand what you are trying to convey and I am not talking specifically about Grayson) but, I disagree with this statement. Linear progression down the mound, creates energy from the back side leg. This is critical for both velocity and command. I've been fortunate enough to discuss this a pretty good length with some very high caliber folks. If you are trying to say that not everyone has the same "optimal load" on the back side, then I agree completely. Everyone is different. 

No, I appreciate a back and forth. 

Yes, a point I’m trying to make is there isn’t an optimal load or amount of leg drive. 

I’m not trying to say linear acceleration towards the plate isn’t important, more that it’s much less important for big tall pitchers with long limbs, especially ones who create great upper and lower half separation (like Grayson). Guys like that can achieve velocity without much forward momentum, as you can see watching him pitch. If you don’t have the lever length or mobility to create that separation, then of course, you have to aggressively load, drive, and break (Grayson does break efficiently and rotates well into his front hip IMO).

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Just now, terphoopsfan said:

Law hates the Orioles, not sure why people take his word as the gospel when it comes to our prospects.

You can make a case that Law had an issue with Dan and ownership after they fired his scout buddies.

Both Dan and PA are now out of the picture.  Why would he have an issue with Elias?

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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

You can make a case that Law had an issue with Dan and ownership after they fired his scout buddies.

Both Dan and PA are now out of the picture.  Why would he have an issue with Elias?

So you’re saying if you disagree with things PA did you should give the sons the benefit of the doubt. 🤔

Frankly, if he has something against the Orioles, I can see him not caring about the regime change. But I’m not that sure he has something against the Orioles either. Usually this org has deserved most of its criticism, and what prospect was he low on that proved him wrong? Doesn’t really matter anyway, guys will either perform or they won’t.

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3 minutes ago, makoman said:

So you’re saying if you disagree with things PA did you should give the sons the benefit of the doubt. 🤔

Frankly, if he has something against the Orioles, I can see him not caring about the regime change. But I’m not that sure he has something against the Orioles either. Usually this org has deserved most of its criticism, and what prospect was he low on that proved him wrong? Doesn’t really matter anyway, guys will either perform or they won’t.

No, I'm saying if you had a grudge against DD and PA there is no reason to continue the grudge once he's gone.  What annoyed KLaw was when the O's fired a bunch of scouts, the people that did that are gone.

As for who he was wrong on, he took Bundy off the O's top prospect list because he could only be a reliever. That was 100 or so starts ago.  I'm guessing Bundy has been better than a few people that made his list.

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6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No, I'm saying if you had a grudge against DD and PA there is no reason to continue the grudge once he's gone.  What annoyed KLaw was when the O's fired a bunch of scouts, the people that did that are gone.

As for who he was wrong on, he took Bundy off the O's top prospect list because he could only be a reliever. That was 100 or so starts ago.  I'm guessing Bundy has been better than a few people that made his list.

That was tongue in cheek but I get it a grudge is different. 

I didn’t remember that about Bundy thanks. Definitely proven wrong there, hopefully Grayson does the same. Law was always very high on Sisco if I recall. I think he’d rather be right scouting-wise than some weird sticking it to the O’s that doesn’t really do anything. 

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18 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

No, I appreciate a back and forth. 

Yes, a point I’m trying to make is there isn’t an optimal load or amount of leg drive. 

I’m not trying to say linear acceleration towards the plate isn’t important, more that it’s much less important for big tall pitchers with long limbs, especially ones who create great upper and lower half separation (like Grayson). Guys like that can achieve velocity without much forward momentum, as you can see watching him pitch. If you don’t have the lever length or mobility to create that separation, then of course, you have to aggressively load, drive, and break (Grayson does break efficiently and rotates well into his front hip IMO).

Agree he gets a TON of separation. It’s an interesting delivery and I’d be really curious to hear what it’s like facing him live.

Does anyone remember those terrible old pitching machines at batting cages that were like catapults? You could see the ball load up super slow in the head of the catapult and then all of a sudden it would explode out? That’s kind of what his delivery reminds me of. And I always found those machines maddening to time.

And Luke, being that he’s such a big kid already, you think there’s room for added Velo without some of the aformentioned risky mechanical changes, or is a 92-94 t96 guy going forward? 

 

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On 7/3/2019 at 4:47 PM, Luke-OH said:

No, I appreciate a back and forth. 

Yes, a point I’m trying to make is there isn’t an optimal load or amount of leg drive. 

I’m not trying to say linear acceleration towards the plate isn’t important, more that it’s much less important for big tall pitchers with long limbs, especially ones who create great upper and lower half separation (like Grayson). Guys like that can achieve velocity without much forward momentum, as you can see watching him pitch. If you don’t have the lever length or mobility to create that separation, then of course, you have to aggressively load, drive, and break (Grayson does break efficiently and rotates well into his front hip IMO).

Thanks for the clarification. That all makes sense. 

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On 7/3/2019 at 7:55 PM, makoman said:

That was tongue in cheek but I get it a grudge is different. 

I didn’t remember that about Bundy thanks. Definitely proven wrong there, hopefully Grayson does the same. Law was always very high on Sisco if I recall. I think he’d rather be right scouting-wise than some weird sticking it to the O’s that doesn’t really do anything. 

Law said there was no chance that Sisco would stick at catcher.  

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2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Law said there was no chance that Sisco would stick at catcher.  

He also said Sisco had to get away from Buck.

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51 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He also said Sisco had to get away from Buck.

Right, my impression was he liked him in general, maybe not here. He had Sisco ranked around 50something.

 

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4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

He also said Sisco had to get away from Buck.

He said he would never stick at catcher back when he was in A ball.  

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