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Is this team worse than last year?

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3 minutes ago, Mayor McCheese said:

Don't forget about SP?/RP? Tsuyoshi Wada

I don't think Wada qualifies as a guy playing out the string since he's still active seven or eight years after the O's signed him and has gone 39-24 in various leagues/levels since he left the O's organization.  He looks like he's been hurt a lot, but in 2016 he went 15-5, 3.04 with nearly a K an inning for Fukuoka.  He's also the owner of a 3.36 ERA with the Cubs after the left the O's.

Imagine what the 2012 O's could have done with a healthy Wada.  In 2010-11 he was a combined 33-12 in Japan, and in '11 he had a 1.51 in ERA in 184 innings.

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16 minutes ago, atomic said:

Just think how bad the team will be once Cashner and Givens are traded.  

You should get a copy of OOTP baseball and run a simulation of the 2019 season with you in charge of the O's.  $150M payroll, trying to eke out every single win.  Have an ongoing thread detailing your alternate-universe O's and their quest for 73 wins.  

That would be a lot more entertaining than endless whining that Elias isn't following your blueprint.

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29 minutes ago, atomic said:

Wait wasn't this the same strategy Andy Macphail tried?

No, your strategy is to follow Beattie/Flanagan/MacPhail's plans all over again.  Take most of the resources and put it into current payroll, trying to win 70 or 75 games instead of 55.  Whatever is left, which isn't much, try to piece together a development system.

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11 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't think Wada qualifies as a guy playing out the string since he's still active seven or eight years after the O's signed him and has gone 39-24 in various leagues/levels since he left the O's organization.  He looks like he's been hurt a lot, but in 2016 he went 15-5, 3.04 with nearly a K an inning for Fukuoka.  He's also the owner of a 3.36 ERA with the Cubs after the left the O's.

Imagine what the 2012 O's could have done with a healthy Wada.  In 2010-11 he was a combined 33-12 in Japan, and in '11 he had a 1.51 in ERA in 184 innings.

It seems like the Orioles sent someone over to Japan before they start of the 2012 season and we signed Chen and Wada.  Both signed cheap contracts.  I am not sure why we didn't continue that path.  Was Wada's injury a decision to not repeat our sign any more pitchers out of the Japan League?

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6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

No, your strategy is to follow Beattie/Flanagan/MacPhail's plans all over again.  Take most of the resources and put it into current payroll, trying to win 70 or 75 games instead of 55.  Whatever is left, which isn't much, try to piece together a development system.

The team isn't spending any more resources on development than they during Flanagan and Macphail's eras.   Under Flanagan I believe they payed overslot for Wieters and Arrieta. 

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1 minute ago, atomic said:

The team isn't spending any more resources on development than they during Flanagan and Macphail's eras.   Under Flanagan I believe they payed overslot for Wieters and Arrieta. 

They're not?  How do you know this, or do you just want it to be true?

In the Flanagan/MacPhail era they rarely went overslot, they never collected extra compensation picks, they had essentially no international presence, they never spent on the big ticket foreign players.  We're six months into the Elias regime so we have almost no track record to go on except that he didn't sign any veteran free agents.  You assume that they're not going to spend on development, but have no evidence of this since there hasn't been opportunity.

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5 minutes ago, atomic said:

It seems like the Orioles sent someone over to Japan before they start of the 2012 season and we signed Chen and Wada.  Both signed cheap contracts.  I am not sure why we didn't continue that path.  Was Wada's injury a decision to not repeat our sign any more pitchers out of the Japan League?

I don't know what happened.  Chen and Wada were both out of contract, weren't they? If so they didn't require a posting fee.  Those are/were a minority of Japanese pitchers, most essentially need to be bought out of their current contracts.

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7 minutes ago, atomic said:

The team isn't spending any more resources on development than they during Flanagan and Macphail's eras.   Under Flanagan I believe they payed overslot for Wieters and Arrieta. 

I wish I had as much insider information!  It would be great to know how much they are spending on development, scouting, overseas facilities, etc.  It's amazing to me that they let someone as critical of the team look at their private ledgers and books, but you said it as someone who actually knows what they are talking about, so I assume you are right.  It's really amazing how you've been able to look at a handful of months under the new regime and have been able to plan out exactly how inept they are going to be the next 4-5 years.  It's really incredible.  

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12 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

They're not?  How do you know this, or do you just want it to be true?

In the Flanagan/MacPhail era they rarely went overslot, they never collected extra compensation picks, they had essentially no international presence, they never spent on the big ticket foreign players.  We're six months into the Elias regime so we have almost no track record to go on except that he didn't sign any veteran free agents.  You assume that they're not going to spend on development, but have no evidence of this since there hasn't been opportunity.

I have quotes from Elias saying they won't be players in signing any one of significance in the international market this coming signing period.  The Orioles have always spent their draft allotment. 

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22 minutes ago, atomic said:

The team isn't spending any more resources on development than they during Flanagan and Macphail's eras.   Under Flanagan I believe they payed overslot for Wieters and Arrieta. 

Curious to check your numbers for how much Elias has spent on the 2019 draft class that is happening next month.

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6 minutes ago, atomic said:

I have quotes from Elias saying they won't be players in signing any one of significance in the international market this coming signing period.  The Orioles have always spent their draft allotment. 

We'll see what happens this period, but it was never, ever, ever about short-term gains.  It's putting a whole new philosophy and structure and way of doing business in place. The visible progress will be 2, 3, 4 years down the road.  This isn't a Steinbrenner/Martin construct where you threaten to fire the guy a few months in when you haven't seen immediate, tangible, on-field results.

You hate this, but at some point you're going to have to accept that they're not following your plan and they never will.

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Just now, Aglets said:

Curious to check your numbers for how much Elias has spent on the 2019 draft class that is happening next month.

$0.00!!!!!!!!  Which is millions less than MacPhail or Flanagan ever spent!

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 I think it’s just sad that the team is as bad as we feared, and not as good as we hoped. I don’t mind losing honorably, but I hate bad baseball. I hate Chris Davis not bunting against the shift, I hate throwing to third when nobody’s there, ground balls between the legs, I hate mental lapses, I hate playing a first baseman in the outfield, I hate keeping bad arms in the bullpen instead of trying out guys from the minors, even if the guys in the minors are also bad. At least give them a chance. I hate the beats trumpeting Castro’s “six scoreless appearances” While completely Ignoring runs he gave up that were charged to the previous pitcher.

I guess it’s the same for every bad team, by definition bad teams lose 10 to nothing and not 5 to 4, and they lose suddenly and disastrously in the last minute Because the guys chosen to close out the win are bad.

I’ve tried to focus on other teams, the Twins and the Mariners, and even my old Rangers, but my hearts just not in it. I’m an oriole fan. That’s part of why I loathe Dan so much. Yeah he made some OK moves, yes yes yes, but he made so many bad moves, and the bad news he made were so momentous, so disastrous, with such long term lingering disasterous effects,  that it will be a long time before I stop caring about his mistakes. 

But the Orioles are my team, and when we come back, the people who made it through the slog will be proud of ourselves as much as of the team.

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21 minutes ago, Aglets said:

 Curious to check your numbers for how much Elias has spent on the 2019 draft class that is happening next month.

I wonder if the team doesn't spend it entire draft slot allotment how people on here are going to spin it it. 

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