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wildbillhiccup

Is the 2019 Season a Blatant Tank Job?

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It's not a blatant tank job - there is just no way to get good players onto the roster immediately without giving up future pieces or risking future success with early promotions.  Maybe before the season we could have spent more money, but even that would probably diminish our investment ability for future success. 

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7 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

If this is true then I have a real problem with Elias' strategy / approach. Fielding a bare bones / replacement level roster is one thing, but if he's blatantly not trying to win goes against the spirit / ethics of the game. It's no different than cheating IMO. 

It worked out well for the Astros. The alternative is the strategy we used that got us nowhere for 14 years. What we need right now are high draft picks (preferably 1:1 or close to it) over the next couple years. WHat we are doing now is sacrificing the present for the future. It is quite a stretch to equate that with cheating. It's just what works in this system. Treading water in a sea of mediocrity for 10 years is far worse than what we're doing now. It's the right thing to do for this organization and hopefully, we won't have to do this again for a long time.

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Just now, connja said:

It's not a blatant tank job - there is just no way to get good players onto the roster immediately without giving up future pieces or risking future success with early promotions.  Maybe before the season we could have spent more money, but even that would probably diminish our investment ability for future success. 

This is about where I am.  When Straily was DFA'd there was a thread on here about him like .2 seconds later about how he should be a target (not really saying much, there's a thread .2 seconds after anyone anywhere is DFA'd and whether or not we should be interested) and we were all happy that we landed him.  IIRC, practically everyone viewed him as a low risk, high reward move.

And you are correct, at this juncture there's no way to get significantly better players without giving up young talent to do so.

IMO, we knew this season was going to be bad.  I was prepared for something like this so I don't mind.  If it's Straily, Wright or some other JAG type on the hill...I'm not really concerned.  I do feel a little bad for Hyde and the players on the team but they all know what's up, that this season is one big audition.  All the cards on the table are face up.  

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It's as blatant as you can get while still telling the players to go out and play their best every game.

And we've all known this was going to be the case since Elias took over.

And it's going to happen again in 2020..............and quite possibly in 2021 but hopefully there are signs of progress by then.

Most of us have accepted this as the planned course of action (atomic notwithstanding).........my question for anyone who is upset by this strategy is.......... what do you think you are accomplishing by complaining about it?    You think Elias is going to change course?   You think ownership will 'punish' Elias for doing what he said he was going to do?

I've gotten more enjoyment from following the minor leagues this year.   I understand the long-term goal.   This is a proven method that has worked with multiple other teams.   If you don't like it..............you don't have to watch the games?     This is a fan strategy that has worked for me and I plan on following at least until there are a few more future pieces on the ML roster.

This is a process.   Elias has NOT hidden the ball from any of us.   We know what is going on.  honestly the constant refrain of "I know you have heard this in the past but this time it will literally come true"  used to upset me a lot more.   I much prefer this method.

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I don’t think it was a blatant tank job. I think the Orioles have mismanaged their organization for years, and it’s caught up to them. There’s a malice/stupidity quote that feels appropriate here. 

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Just now, Enjoy Terror said:

I don’t think it was a blatant tank job. I think the Orioles have mismanaged their organization for years, and it’s caught up to them. There’s a malice/stupidity quote that feels appropriate here. 

Definitely true in 2018 where we actually tried to compete until we realized how awful we were.   For this season though being bad was much more of a conscious choice.

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6 minutes ago, Sessh said:

 The alternative is the strategy we used that got us nowhere for 14 years. 

This is an important take, too, IMO.  I don't want this franchise to half-ass anything and make an attempt to win 65-70 games.  That does absolutely nothing.  It's a rudderless ship.  

If we made a flurry of moves to...do what, exactly?  Make this already terrible team slightly better?  What good does that do?  Make some people here sleep better at night knowing that this rotting husk of a team is REALLY GOING FOR IT?!?!?!  

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2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Is anyone going to be complaining in late May of next year when we're debating who to take at 1:1?

For the 3-4 months of enjoyment during the draft run-up, there is a world of difference between #1 and everything else.  Only there can you daydream about anyone, and daydreaming's an essential survival skill for the long winter.

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2 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Please feel free to combine this thread with another if it's appropriate, but I wanted to discuss the blatant tank job the team seems to be doing this season. I realize the team is in rebuilding mode, but it really feels like they are passive aggressively not trying to win games and that's something I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around. How else would you explain someone like Dan Straily still being on the active roster? I'm not putting this on the players or the manager because I think they're both doing the best with the talent they have to work with, but I am putting it on ownership the the GM. And my fear is if they don't make some level of effort to compete they are going to completely lose what's left of the fan base. Will the fans come back when/if they start winning again? Maybe, but it's not a definite. And by competing I'm not talking about major free agent signings. I'm talking about not continuing to put the same terrible product/players on the field. Straily is the poster child and gets the majority of my angst, but it's not limited to him. If a player isn't performing cut him or demote it's really that simple. I'm fine with losing, but don't insult my intelligence by continuing to play terrible players who show no hopes of being better. Rant over and stepping down off my soap box. 

But we’re winning! Enjoy it!

http://www.tankathon.com/mlb

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Just now, OrioleDog said:

For the 3-4 months of enjoyment during the draft run-up, there is a world of difference between #1 and everything else.  Only there can you daydream about anyone, and daydreaming's an essential survival skill for the long winter.

Agreed, it was nice wondering if we were going to take AR, BWJR or someone else this draft.  Something to look forward to, indeed.  Makes you pay a little more attention to the high school rankings and the college season, too.  

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6 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Definitely true in 2018 where we actually tried to compete until we realized how awful we were.   For this season though being bad was much more of a conscious choice.

My definition of “tank” is to be last place for the sole purpose of draft position. Doing a hard reset was necessary and first overall pick was a consequence of that decision. Does that make this a “tank”?

Compare to the Marlins, who deliberately sabotage their team to cut payroll and field the cheapest team possible.

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1 hour ago, Slappy said:

The clarity of the team not trying to win comes from the off-season, when there were a lot of relatively low-priced, reasonable quality free agents out there and the FO opted to go with a lot of unproven but cheap players. I've actually felt like, Straily aside, Elias has put at least some effort into cycling through his (poor) options in-season.  Witness the Wright trade, Rickard DFA, Phillips, Kline, Yac, Stewart, Santander, Mullins being sent down, et. al.

Ultimately, given the rules in MLB today, opting to field a 50-win team instead of a 70-win team is a good decision for the club long-term. It allows Elias to stockpile high amateur draft slots, go first in Rule V, be at the head of the waiver wire, etc. I don't necessarily agree with the system and believe it does incentivize fan-unfriendly team building like this, but it is the system and it is the right strategy for the long-term health of the club.  It's also damn painful to watch.[/b[

As for the fans...  if we win, they will be back. This is a fanbase that has endured 14 year losing streaks and 25 years of gross mismanagement. A few years of a rebuilding project isn't going to do a whole lot more damage, and at least we are seeing a clear direction now.  Keep the faith! 

On the bold, it also helps us establish a talent pipeline, which we lagged behind everyone.  Hardly any international scouts and presence, a limited scouting department stateside and one of the smallest analytics departments.  We also had a very poor development system in place, especially related to pitching.  Since Mussina, we have only developed one TORP in Erik Bedard, and even classifying him as that is up for debate.  John Wasdin has done a great job in the past two years as pitching coordinator, helping to draft Hall and Rodriguez, amongst others, and helping develop them in the early stages.  

We also don't have a full front office with all of the hires in place.  So I'm OK with the tanking for a couple years to get everything set into place that we haven't had for over a decade, even when we did have a winning team.  I want this team to have sustained success, with a talent pipeline that keeps refilling itself.  Because for as much as the Astros and Cubs tanked for prospects, they had a few players already on the roster who contributed, and some prospects who became regulars.  Other prospects were used to make trades to improve the big league club, so not everyone we draft 2-3 years from now will be part of the club.  It's not just 2-3 years of good drafting and that's it.  

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2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

Is anyone going to be complaining ..........

 

o

 

Yes.

Each and every day, 365 days per year, as long as the Orioles Hangout exists.

 

o

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