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MurphDogg

Orioles trade Cashner to Red Sox

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27 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

No I didn't, and FIP tracks the things that are in a pitcher's control, not the aspect of ERA that aren't and tend to vary.  FIP tells you how often a pitcher gives up walks and homers, and how often you strike out opponents.  Those are the most important things to know about a pitcher.

No it is a lazy stat.  These figures sometime co-relate with ERA but not all the time. I have called FIP a stat for simpletons. Just because FIP corelates sometimes with ERA doesn't mean it is good measure. 

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1 hour ago, atomic said:

No it is a lazy stat.  These figures sometime co-relate with ERA but not all the time. I have called FIP a stat for simpletons. Just because FIP corelates sometimes with ERA doesn't mean it is good measure. 

Why is ERA the end all, be all of statistics? I don't have any preference for any particular metric, but it seems like having a wide variety of stats to look at that try to account for various factors would be valuable. Not something to be sneered at.

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12 minutes ago, Mondo Trasho said:

Why is ERA the end all, be all of statistics? I don't have any preference for any particular metric, but it seems like having a wide variety of stats to look at that try to account for various factors would be valuable. Not something to be sneered at.

It's not. It's an antiquated stat that he's simply using because it helps his argument. What's next? Saying wins is a good gauge of a pitcher's worth? 

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10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Cashner debuts for the Red Sox tonight, then is scheduled to face the O’s on Sunday.   

Prado had a pinch hit single in his first ab for the DSL Orioles 1.

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Maybe some other folks can chime in, but I have to think that if we are lifting two of the better prospects off of the BoSox two DSL teams that we are picking up two decent prospects.  Sure, I posted we would do better, but if the BoSox were "aggressive" as our GM says then I think we have to trust that we picked up good prospects if all we are getting is $1+M in salary relief.

It would be interesting to know if either Elias or Perez knew either of these guys before they chose to sign with the BoSox and/or whether our selecting these two reflects more current scouting or both.  I am surprised we could not pop an organizational top 10 from the BoSox, but maybe we preferred to go this route.

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2 hours ago, Frobby said:

5 IP, 6 R (5 ER) for Cashner in his Red Sox debut.   Sox trail 6-4 in the 8th.

People talked about wanting Cashner back in the offseason. Well we might be able to just get him for free after he’s released. 

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Trades looking a little bit better today haha. I texted one of my old college roomates who is a Red Sox die hard (from MA) and apologized for cashner's performance as I was talking him up post trade this weekend.

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31 minutes ago, interloper said:

Meoli snuck this line into his latest article, but doesn't elaborate:

Wonder what that means, exactly.

Here's how Connolly put it:

Cashner is a tough guy who spoke his mind and didn’t care about ruffling young Orioles’ feathers. But he also gave exorbitant amounts of time to those inexperienced guys in the clubhouse.

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22 hours ago, Frobby said:

 

I always find it funny that people want to brag about how good Brooks, Belanger, Blair, Grich, et al. were, but then dont want to acknowledge the obvious conclusion that the Orioles pitchers would have had a significantly higher ERA if theyd had an average defense behind them. Palmer himself has no problem acknowledging that fact. Of course, he also gives himself credit (as he should, IMO) for adjusting his pitching to account for the great defense behind him.   

 

o

 

I love this post, as it is a quintessential example of how nobody plays (and/or pitches) in a vacuum. It is an example of the "cause-and-effect" principle ........ yes, Palmer was greatly assisted by having a perennially outstanding defense behind him, but Palmer also KNEW how great that defense was, and (at least to a certain extent) adjusted his pitching accordingly.

 

Systems are often tied into at least one (and sometimes more than one) other system. On a similar note, it is like when a runner gets picked off of 1st base, the batter proceeds to hit a solo home run a couple of pitches later, and fans of the team say that if the runner had not gotten picked off it would have been a 2-run home run ........ but this is a flawed assumption, because if the runner had not gotten picked off the pitcher would have been pitching from the stretch, and he would not necessarily have thrown the same pitch that he threw with a runner on 1st base with one out as opposed to nobody on base with 2 outs. The batter may have still hit a home run if the runner were still on base, but he also might have hit a long single or a double into the gap, or he might have popped the ball up for an out.

 

o

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The return for Cashner doesn’t really matter, either. It was a money play just as much as a prospect play, and the Orioles now have two 17-year-old, up-the-middle talents that they didn’t have before, and one less veteran pitcher whose brand of leadership in the clubhouse certainly wasn’t for everyone.

(A bonus leftover thought on the trade)

Without getting too much into the return, it seems some of the reaction to it is clouded by the fact that the Orioles have always had to give up substantial pieces with minor league pedigrees who have gone on to have success (Eduardo Rodriguez, Zack Davies, etc.) for their rentals.

That’s because the Orioles didn’t have the teenage lottery tickets that teams wanted to target the way the Red Sox did, and that’s why the team joining the international amateur market is important. Such young players who teams can project out are not only valuable to their own farm systems, but make trading for major league talent easier. Losing those kinds of prospects can be easier to stomach, and teams sign so many Latin American players so that they can be comfortable making those moves.

When you don’t have them, you trade away legitimate pieces for rentals. And when you’re years away from contending, a couple of toolsy lottery tickets is a fine return.

 

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