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webbrick2010

Bundy / Givens

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Both are arbitration eligible.

Neither figure in the O's long term plans.

Bundy made 2.8 million in 2019, Givens 2.15 million

Can't see allowing them to get an arb raise

Could offer them 1 year deal at the same or less money, but if they don't want to sign, seems that they should be DFA'd

Makes it all the more disappointing that they couldn't offload them on anyone at the trade deadline

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Have you  watched any of the games lately? Bundy’s stuff is as good as it has been in 2 years. You need starters to get through a season. He is cheap. 

Givens still has upside and isn’t making much. Why let him go. Hope he pitches well next year and deal him. 

Could not disagree more with both these 

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7 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Both are arbitration eligible.

Neither figure in the O's long term plans.

Bundy made 2.8 million in 2019, Givens 2.15 million

Can't see allowing them to get an arb raise

Could offer them 1 year deal at the same or less money, but if they don't want to sign, seems that they should be DFA'd

Makes it all the more disappointing that they couldn't offload them on anyone at the trade deadline

I can see making an argument for letting Givens walk, but not Bundy. The starting pitching cavalry isn't coming anytime soon. They need someone to eat innings and pitch next year. Even if Bundy gets a slight bump he's still somewhat affordable by today's standards. I'd much rather see them DFA Villar if they want to save money. 

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2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Have you  watched any of the games lately? Bundy’s stuff is as good as it has been in 2 years. You need starters to get through a season. He is cheap. 

Givens still has upside and isn’t making much. Why let him go. Hope he pitches well next year and deal him. 

Could not disagree more with both these 

I agree with you.   They will not have 5 better than Bundy in the rotation until the Bowie guys are ready.      Givens probably better as a mid reliever than a closer.

Either guy could be traded over the winter if someone offers something Elias likes.

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14 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Both are arbitration eligible.

Neither figure in the O's long term plans.

Bundy made 2.8 million in 2019, Givens 2.15 million

Can't see allowing them to get an arb raise

Could offer them 1 year deal at the same or less money, but if they don't want to sign, seems that they should be DFA'd

Makes it all the more disappointing that they couldn't offload them on anyone at the trade deadline

I know! Everything about this team seems to be disappointing. I find I am agreeing with you. Or not. Because both of them will be traded for what they are worth. Not what we hope for. Or what we could have gotten were they traded while we were competing. What they are worth. 

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Just now, wildbillhiccup said:

I can see making an argument for letting Givens walk, but not Bundy. The starting pitching cavalry isn't coming anytime soon. They need someone to eat innings and pitch next year. Even if Bundy gets a slight bump he's still somewhat affordable by today's standards. I'd much rather see them DFA Villar if they want to save money. 

I'm with you 100%. I would be fine with non-tendering Givens but it makes little sense to non-tender Bundy. Bundy's not that good but he's an innings eater and still relatively cheap. And who would you replace him with? All of the pitchers in AAA have bombed hard this year. You need somebody out there to bridge the gap until the next wave of pitching prospects is ready. 

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Surprised by the reaction

If we are really buying into the concept of only keeping players that will be contributors to the next winning team, and otherwise minimizing salary, I still don't see the point in dishing out 5 million to two players that aren't good/young enough to be a part of the next winning team.

I'm betting that Elias non-tenders both of them.

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10 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Surprised by the reaction

If we are really buying into the concept of only keeping players that will be contributors to the next winning team, and otherwise minimizing salary, I still don't see the point in dishing out 5 million to two players that aren't good/young enough to be a part of the next winning team.

I'm betting that Elias non-tenders both of them.

They still have to field a team.  And the grand total of Givens and Bundy's 2020 salaries will be about half of what they paid Trumbo this year.  There's a legitimate chance they trade one or both of them before next August.  I just don't see them getting non-tendered to save maybe 1/10th of an already small payroll.

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1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

They still have to field a team.  And the grand total of Givens and Bundy's 2020 salaries will be about half of what they paid Trumbo this year.  There's a legitimate chance they trade one or both of them before next August.  I just don't see them getting non-tendered to save maybe 1/10th of an already small payroll.

Yep at some point I understand that its not a lot of money

On the other hand, having them on the roster won't change the standings and it is very unlikely that they will be on the roster of the next winning team

So... Save 5-6 million dollars and hire 20 more scouts

It's unfortunate that we are still paying Cobb, and of course Davis.

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10 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Yep at some point I understand that its not a lot of money

On the other hand, having them on the roster won't change the standings and it is very unlikely that they will be on the roster of the next winning team

So... Save 5-6 million dollars and hire 20 more scouts

It's unfortunate that we are still paying Cobb, and of course Davis.

Most rebuilding teams have unfortunate contracts. 

Tigers have Cabrera making 30 million thru 2021 and making 32 million the next two years. Jordan Zimmermann making 25 million this year and next year. 

Royals have Alex Gordon making 20 million this year. Probably buy out his 23 million salary  for next year. Ian Kennedy 16.5 million this year and next. Danny Duffy at 15.25 million this year and next and 15.5 million in 2021. Salvador Perez for 11.2 million this year and next two years at 14.2 million.

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At almost 2 WAR, Bundy will still be a bargain at $5m or even $10m for that matter. To that extent he has trade value so the only way this would make sense would-be a true full tank strategy where they are not even trying to win long term and just cutting costs to sell the team.

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All you have to do is look at the state of the Orioles starting pitching and bullpen. Giving these guys whatever raise they are due is the easiest decision Mike Elias is facing in 2020. He can tender Givens and still trade him, even. Bundy, for all his issues, is a 5.00 ERA back-end stalwart. Which, yeah, not great, but he's been durable and gives you 170 half-decent innings. Lots of value for both players on a team like the 2020 Orioles. 

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