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1. I did respond to the Kidd comments. It was one series. I don't think any comparison between Kobe's post game and Lebron's can really be made. And if you agree on that, I'm not sure what we're discussing anymore.

2. I didn't say Lebron didn't perform in the clutch. I said his game wasn't well-rounded enough to come through when he wasn't getting to the rim.

3. You brought up your mid-range facts after the snarky comment I responded to. So, yes - it is too much to ask me to respond with a "my bad" to a comment I haven't seen.

You said Kobe would have abused Kidd in the post until they had to make a switch. They just played a 4 game series where the Mavs won each game with Kidd playing Kobe straight up the vast majority of the time. So your comment was just flat out wrong. Kobe has a much better post-game than LeBron and James needs to work on that aspect of his game, but that doesn't change what actually happened in the Mavs-Lakers series. My comments are not to compare their post games at all.

The mid-range stats post was before my "snarky comment" so I don't know what you're talking about there. Regardless, the my bad could have happened by now.

Hate on LeBron all you like, I'm not trying to get you to give up that hate, nor was I trying to even start a debate with you, I just corrected two things that are simply factually incorrect and easily shown to be. But I guess that makes me an argumentative jerk. :rolleyes:

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I hate to continuously bring actual facts to this, but LeBron actually greatly improved in 10-15 ft and 16-23 ft shooting this past year. In the former, he went from 32% to 45%. In the latter, he went from 40% to 45%. Kobe who you brought up in this regard, had the better 10-15 game with 51.5%, while he was worse in the 16-23 shooting with 38%. LeBron was slightly better from 3.

How many shots did LeBron take from those distances from the last year to this year? How much confidence did he show in that shot at crucial situations?

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How many shots did LeBron take from those distances from the last year to this year? How much confidence did he show in that shot at crucial situations?

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James

You can see all that info there. He took more shots in the 10-15 foot ranges and the same in 16-23 as the year before. Less 3's.

The point is saying he hasn't improved his mid-range shot/game is simply a falsehood. This isn't even an opinion thing. Can it be improved more? Well of course.

His post game is what he needs to work on the most, which will also affect his 10-15 foot shots as well as shorter range shots of course.

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http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James

You can see all that info there. He took more shots in the 10-15 foot ranges and the same in 16-23 as the year before. Less 3's.

The point is saying he hasn't improved his mid-range shot/game is simply a falsehood. This isn't even an opinion thing. Can it be improved more? Well of course.

His post game is what he needs to work on the most, which will also affect his 10-15 foot shots as well as shorter range shots of course.

Mweb, you still taking Lebron over Kobe in a must win game?? Just curious if his Finals performance, where he was um, timid at best, made you reconsider.

Edited by ccbird

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Mweb, you still taking Lebron over Kobe in a must win game?? Just curious if his Finals performance, where he was um, timid at best, made you reconsider.

I'm not sure why you quoted what you did, but anyway...

How about this, I'll take LeBron in the first 3 rounds and Kobe in the Finals for a must win game. :D

So yes, as I said before, LeBron's performance made me reconsider. However, Kobe's performance confirmed my thoughts on him and I'm not sure how anyone who would have taken him over anyone (I guess this wasn't you) hasn't reconsidered that at this point.

As I said earlier, I don't see how either would be a good choice for a first pick at this point.

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I don;t know if this was directed at me or Cerrano. Anyway, I dared you to take Lebron over Kobe in a must win game. That was it. So basically my whole argument from the time I stepped into the thread was Kobe vs Lebron in a must win game. Like I said earlier, I feel still feel very good taking Kobe over Lebron. At no time did I say I would take Kobe over the rest of the league. He would be very high on the list but almost assuredly not number #1 at this point. I will say this, even though Lebron is the most talented player in the league I would take at least 5 players in a must win game over him. Probably more.
I acknowledge the research you did, what you can quantify. Still, although he's not the most talented anymore, I'll take Kobe and the intangibles in a one game must win scenario over Lebron or anyone else in the league

Umm, that was you.

I like the technique of conceding a former argument you made while claiming to not have made that argument. So I'll give you the credit for the concession. ;)

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Umm, that was you.

I like the technique of conceding a former argument you made while claiming to not have made that argument. So I'll give you the credit for the concession. ;)

LOL. Well aren't you a sleuth. I honestly didn't remember saying I would take Kobe over everybody else. Anyway, Kobe is still very high on my list and I said I almost assuredly wouldn't take him at this point . The key words being "almost assuredly" and "at this point". There isn't one person in the league who I would pick over Kobe without giving it a 2nd thought. If I were to sit down and really focus on making a list I'd probably end up with a few ahead of Kobe. Wade and Dirk are probably two of them and their performances this postseason would have had an effect on that decision. At the time I said I would have taken Kobe before anybody else it's because I would have taken Kobe ahead of everybody else. I'm allowed to change my mind too.

Edited by ccbird

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LOL. Well aren't you a sleuth. I honestly didn't remember saying I would take Kobe over everybody else. Anyway, Kobe is still very high on my list and I said I almost assuredly wouldn't take him at this point . The key words being "almost assuredly" and "at this point". There isn't one person in the league who I would pick over Kobe without giving it a 2nd thought. If I were to sit down and really focus on making a list I'd probably end up with a few ahead of Kobe. Wade and Dirk are probably two of them and their performances this postseason would have had an effect on that decision. At the time I said I would have taken Kobe before anybody else it's because I would have taken Kobe ahead of everybody else. I'm allowed to change my mind too.

Of course you're allowed to change your mind. Changing minds based on what happens is something that should obviously happen.

I just brought it up due to your insistence that you never said that.

Edited by mweb

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On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2011 at 2:05 PM, Frobby said:

I don't follow the NBA closely enough to have a good feel for the talent the Knicks gave up, but I predict the Knicks will be no factor at all for 2011 or 2012. Carmelo is overrated IMO.

 

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2011 at 4:49 PM, Frobby said:

Not a good defensive player, and doesn't have the kind of game that makes the players around him better. He doesn't shoot that high a percentage, and he doesn't get assists. The Nuggets have had him for 7+ years and made it out of the first round of the playoffs one time.

If you look at the basketball equivalent of sabermetric stats, Anthony is not that impressive. He scores a lot, because he shoots a lot.

 

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2011 at 5:02 PM, Frobby said:

As to whether Carmelo is overrated, it depends on how you think he is rated by the public. Judging from the last two weeks, I'd say ESPN has him somewhere between LeBron James and Jesus.

I think the general perception of Anthony is that he is in the top 10 players in the NBA, and probably closer to 5 than 10. But to me, I doubt he's in the top 20.

He's shooting 45.2%, slightly below the league average. For his career, he's at 45.9%. He's got a career assist/TO percentage of 1:1. I just don't see him as one of the very top players in the game.

Six years later, the Knicks are 53 games under .500 since trading for Carmelo Anthony.   I've never understood the fascination with the guy.

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Well, the Knicks finally unloaded Carmelo Anthony.    I read a piece in the Post yesterday saying this made the Thunder into the top contender to upend Golden State.   I say, I have a hard time seeing Russell Westbrook and Carmelo Anthony sharing one basketball.    And I'm happy for the Knicks that they can now get on with a proper rebuilding.     

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22 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, the Knicks finally unloaded Carmelo Anthony.    I read a piece in the Post yesterday saying this made the Thunder into the top contender to upend Golden State.   I say, I have a hard time seeing Russell Westbrook and Carmelo Anthony sharing one basketball.    And I'm happy for the Knicks that they can now get on with a proper rebuilding.     

Anthony doesn't have the best track record when it comes to making his teams better. Extremely talented but I agree with you about him and Westbrook.

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On September 25, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Il BuonO said:

Anthony doesn't have the best track record when it comes to making his teams better. Extremely talented but I agree with you about him and Westbrook.

OKC improved but GS still a notch better.

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