Tony-OH

I think you need to give them a full season. Some of these guys will need to repeat because they are young for the level and just need lots of professional PAs. Some will continue to fail, but the talented ones will keep getting chances for at least 700+PAs in A-ball.

All of that is fair to point out, some of which I did. My only issue with the snarkiness of the original comment like there was an over reaction going on by pointing out he's off to a disappointing start. At the end of the day, Basallo is uber talented and he will figure it out.

I like Vazquez a little bit. I don't know how much he will hit at the upper levels, but he controls the strike zone, can run a bit, and is a good defender. He's got a utility player ceiling but for a 30K 20th round pick, he looks like a very nice org guy at the very least.

Well, he has hasn't done anything at the major league level yet and he still has defensive issues so we don't know whether he was a good 2nd round pick or not. I think the bat is going to play at the major league level, but I see him more as a major league regular bat, with sketchy defensive traits until he can master corner outfield. But really my comment was more on the philosophy more than anything else. Looking at that draft, there's not a lot of guys who have made it to the majors or produced much in that 3-5 rounds yet. It's hard to find signable high school talent after the first couple of rounds unless a team can go overslot, especially now that these top players can make pretty good NIL money in college. They know they ca have a good college experience, and play in front of packed crowds for the top programs, rather than taking long bus rides to Savannah, GA to play in front of 700 people on a Tuesday night. So we're seeing a lot more college heavy drafts. Darrel Hernaiz is the only high school drafted player outside of the first round that has made the majors from an Elias draft. Now Mayo should be the second, but he of course was a COVID draft overslot.

Appreciate the response and apology. Again, I'm pointing out that he's off to a bad start and some observations on him being unbalanced at the plate. I don't recall anyone expressing opinions other than those facts. His start is disappointing. It certainly does not mean he's less of a prospect. In fact, I didn't even drop him in the power rankings. He absolutely young for his level and had an offseason with bone chips in his elbow so he may not have had a full offseason of work. Hopefully he will turn it around soon, but even if he repeats AA next year he's still way ahead of the curve. But we're a long way from those concerns.

Roy they're calling for you! lol

Hyde leaving Grayson to take an ass-kicking. Guess can't destroy his bullpen but this is ugly.

Well, besides his utter domination by major league pitching, I agree.

That to me is the biggest thing for him being a starter long term. He does seem to get dangerous around 70-75 pitches and the command goes. He's getting some early count outs that have helped him get into the 6th inning. When he doesn't get them, he may end up a guy who struggles to get out the 5th. IF, and that's a big IF, if he can work on back to back days and show he can warm up quickly and be effective, he would be a real weapon in the pen, but for now, I'm ok running him out every 5 days until he shows he's not capable of working into the 6th inning more time than not.

Wait, how do you assess if a player is ready or not if not for how they perform at the major league level? How do you assess that a player was not rushed when he's putting up historically bad numbers to start off a career? Now I agree with you that Elias has a better feel for when he should go back down or not, but I don't think Holliday has proven anybody wrong who thinks he was rushed. His performance so far if anything has proven them right. Can he right the ship and prove them wrong, sure, but so far, anyone who says he was absolutely ready have been proven wrong. He's not been just unlucky, he's been terrible at every measurable attribute we have for hitting. There is also a misnomer that players can not learn anything else at a previous level. That's just wrong. Having statcast data now shows there is major league caliber stuff in AAA, it's just often not consistent. Plus, the ability to just relax a little work on the things the major league coaches have him working on in a less stressful environment can also be a plus. He has 147 AA PAs under his belt that he put up a respectable .899 OPS, but he's also a kid who had a 105 PA stretch last year in High-A ball where he put up a .183/.362/.232/.594 slash line where he had two extra base hits and basically only got on base by walking against bad command High-A ball pitchers. Holliday has a tremendous amount of talent, and he's going to be fine in the long run, but I disagree that sending him back to AAA will do him no good. Will having him set more futility records to start a major league career be helpful? If we get swept in a series and he goes 0-for does that mean he's now hurting the team? I'm ok with leaving it up to Elias/Hyde to make that decision, but I would have zero issues if they sent him back to reset for bit.

What does this have to do with my statements? Are you excited over his start? It's ok to be disappointed in a player's start and not give up on him at all. I just will never understand why some of you feel like you need to say "there's nothing to see here" without providing any context or statistical backing. What the hell is up with the snarky lol? That's the kind of BS that pisses me off. Basically, you are showing your fanboy status when do stuff like this. This is the Hangout. we make observations and then we back things up with pertinent stats or information. If you wanna be all fanboy and "lol" posts that give facts because the fanboy in you wants to say, "there's nothing to see here," save your typing. That kind of stuff really rubs me wrong especially when I deserve a lot more respect than you loling a factual post. If you want to be snarky, don't do it my posts. That's disrespectful and BS.

But he's 82nd percentile in barrel percentage and 92nd percentile in Whiff. I saw some some high EVs that were hit at 60 degree angles or more which were pop ups. I'm not saying he's a long term piece. I'd need to see it for longer than two starts, but I like the stuff overall, especially if he can get his curveball over more often to give another look to the change and cutter.

Let's hope that's an issue when he's available. I could see Hays doing an extended minor league rehab if the team is doing well and everyone is hitting.

Certainly hard to sit O'Hearn with the way he's been hitting against righties. But Kjerstad doesn't have major split issues so he may be able to take some of those lefty PAs.

I think the difference here is we see the whiffs on the stuff. That's a great sign for continual success. I don't expect him to keep throwing up zeros for entire starts of course, but I do like the stuff. It's really going to come down to whether his command holds up. Gotta like what we see so far.