LookinUp

It's my opinion that he was rushed through the minors. It wasn't just about the decision to promote him this year. It was about pushing him so quickly through AA first. That said, I think it was easily justifiable to handle it like the O's did. I'm not mad about it at all. I just think Holliday never got the benefit of being at a level long enough to work on the nuances of his game, certainly not at 2b, but also to see how others pitched to him after seeing him before.

Saying all of this, if Holliday gets a hit and a walk tonight and looks comfortable, I'm not necessarily making the change. If he looks totally lost still, I would. Tonight.

Without getting into the semantics of whether or not he was rushed, I think getting to the major leagues and having better advanced scouts and better players expose your weaknesses can be a very real thing. I think that's part of what's happening with Jackson. I also think he could identify those weaknesses and work on them in AAA. Not that it absolutely needs to happen there, but that it almost certainly can. I do think there can be downside to failing miserably, in the spotlight, over time. He's a kid. A prodigy, yes, but still a kid. The O's wouldn't be wrong to figure out how to protect him and help him get over this hiccup.

Million dollar question. There are too many good pros to put on the roster. I suppose that's a great problem to have. Maybe they start putting guys who struggle on the DL? lol

1. I'm not familiar with how ZIPS projects prospects versus established pros, but it seems like they dock the prospects a bit. I don't know that though. 2. The broader point is the profile of guys that Elias is going after versus the guys that previous regimes went after. Elias' guys have hit tools and power similar to Santander and Mountcastle, but they tend to have better swing decisions and higher OBPs. That's why I project them to be better. That's why the O's projected them to be better. With all of that said, it's not like Mountcastle/Santander/Mullins/Hays aren't all under the same tutelage as everyone else at this point. It stands to reason that they can improve in those swing decision areas too, which I agree does make it a closer call. Then you consider the cheaper contracts of the new guys and it's less close again, IMO.

I'm not crushing Santander either, but he's a career .765 OPS guy. It was .797 last year. His only year over .800 was the Covid year. He plays average defense. Not a butcher, but not exactly rangy out there. Long story short, I think you can get similar power with more OBP from Kjerstad and Cowser with similar defense for Kjerstad and better for Cowser. So yes, I'd say they'll be better than Santander.

I will not be shocked if Kjerstad forces himself into the lineup. LH or not, he and Cowser are better than Hays and probably Santander. There will be a timeshare for sure, and it could take a minute, but Kjerstad could be an even better hitter than Cowser.

I think he can be rushed and also be "that good." Both things can be true. I'm not trying to crush the kid. I'm just trying to be realistic. He's swimming in deep water right now. I don't think we're really helping him by throwing him to the sharks. I do concede that they could stick with him for another month, he could break out of this and all could be great. I just think doing so pretty much guarantees a guy who isn't great, and might be significantly below average, offensively or defensively on the field during that time. I mean, he's been up 2 weeks and has a -0.5 rWAR.

We know that there will have to be tough roster decisions with this team in the near future. Is the plan to put those off until the offseason no matter what? If that's the plan, you might see a rationale for keeping the status quo. At the same time, I'd be fine with making one or two of those decisions by the deadline. But let's be honest here, you're talking about the risk with one player (Norby) by making the change I'm saying to make. It's not going to derail the future of this team or even his trade value. At the same time, I think they're doing Holliday a disservice. He only played 36 games in AA, and half that in AAA, last year. They didn't even give those leagues the chance to adjust to him. I really, honestly, think they've rushed the kid. I think he's showing that he's not ready offensively, or even defensively at 2B. Heck, I think he's overhyped in general even though I definitely see him eventually as an above average 2B and top of the league leadoff hitter. But he's not the uber athlete, big powerful MOO bat that someone like a Gunnar is. He's more of Jeter profile. That's wonderful, but it's not an ARod profile either and Jeter did what he did with 10/10 intangibles. I think there's more to gain by getting the extra year of service time and making sure he's ready, and I think that way outweighs the risks of losing some value on a guy like Norby.

I know it goes without saying, but if you're off balance, you don't have power. He probably needs to get back to focusing on his foundation...the basics. I still have no doubt about this kid, disappointing start notwithstanding.

I started a thread 2 or 3 years ago saying we should give Elias 10 years and $100 million. I was basically ridiculed. I'm not sure he'd take that offer at this point.

I think it's silly to say he has nothing left to prove in AAA and equally silly to say he's not hurting the ML team right now. He is definitely hurting us. We're just good enough to overcome it right now. Holliday barely had a cup of coffee in AAA. He was only ok at the end of last year in AAA (.796 OPS) and had good stats when everyone on the team had over a 1.000 OPS against the lame White Sox team early this year. He also barely had a cup of coffee at 2B. Most importantly, he looks broken right now. There's every reason to put him into a position where he can decompress and find his legs again. While he's at it, he can figure out how not to drop his hands so he can compete at the top of the zone, and he can get more comfortable at 2b. I love the kid and believe that he'll be as great as they say, but I definitely believe he was rushed in relation to how Elias has really made sure the other guys are more ready before promoting them. Nobody else got the Holliday treatment, and I don't think they should. I would demote him and give Norby a shot, effective tomorrow.

My goodness, what a lineup. I hope everyone is taking a second to smell the roses. This is rare even with Holliday's struggles, and Mayo/Basallo aren't even hear yet.

You have to wonder how long this guy can stick. It would be a very Orioles thing to find this guy out of nowhere and have him be a legitimate number three starter for most of the year.

You have to assume McCann would be gone. Not necessarily though.