Orioles Acquire Dana Eveland from Dodgers

[grimed1]

15 pages on Eveland. DD ,please make a bigger deal and watch the OH explode.

[Sports Guy]

Tony seems to think Eveland is a significant upgrade over Jakubauskas and Reyes. Duquette and his staff seem to think so, as well. I guess we will find out if they are right.

Ok, so let's say he is. Let's say he can be a 1 WAR pitcher for this year.

WHO THE HELL CARES? That's probably his best case scenario and that is something to hang your hat on? That maybe he can provide a little more value than a replacement player?

Again, guys like Henry, Miclat and Martin have/had more upside and value tghan Jacobsen and Hoey. Guys like Martin and Henry can be 3rd and 4th players in larger deals. There are always guys like that in these bigger trades.

And yet, here we are, trading them for 2 dime a dozen players who both could have been non tendered...and we are supposed to be happy about this?

For years, we have argued that you can take a guy like Cust, pay him 500K and get similar(maybe not better but similar) production out of him as you can a guy that you pay 4 million.

Same concept. If you can keep the prospect(whether he is a very good prospect or just an ok one) and sign a player that will give you similar production, you keep the younger player and hope that he either develops or that you can use him for something else.

People on here are like, well he is far away and has issues, so trading him for nothing is fine. Trust the Orioles! LOL...We are supposed to trust the worst organization in sports? Are you kidding me? Its absolutely mind boggling that anyone would say this is a good move on any level whatsoever.

You started a thread about how you still can't believe what we gave up to get Hardy...Well, we just traded better players for replacement level talent.

[ChaosLex]

Is Chris Waters a good comp for this guy?

[Malike]

I just heard this, and threw up a little bit in my mouth.

[BilboBaggins]

15 pages on Eveland. DD ,please make a bigger deal and watch the OH explode.

After 14 years of losing, this is what happens. This is the kind of trade (for a winning team) that wouldn't even be mentioned in the newspaper.

For the Orioles, it's like we signed ARod or something.

ugh.

[SteveO]

Its a pretty sad commentary on were this franchise is that we are all debating the merits of a guy who has a career ERA north of 5 and WHIP north of 1.5 ... These type of deals are like fools gold. A bigger piece of it really holds no more value than a smaller one. Its the real stuff that has value (guys who can actually put good numbers).

Tony while I get the sentiment, its just not based in reality. How many more wins is Eveland worth over Reyes and company? I think we have more than our share of mediocre pitchers already. Slightly less mediocre really does nothing to improve this team. Losing 5-2 is really not that much better than 7-2. This deal in and of its self as an isolated event is not much to be worked up about one way or another. I just think the frustration is in watching other teams make moves that equate to wins while we make transactions like this. As I have said before I am hopeful we do something meaningful at some point here but I can understand the impatience....think the O's fans have a little right to be antsy considering how much needs to get done and how little actually has been.

[Tony-OH]

Tony seems to think Eveland is a significant upgrade over Jakubauskas and Reyes. Duquette and his staff seem to think so, as well. I guess we will find out if they are right.

I wouldn't go that far. His pitch value's last year suggest he could better than those two and it certainly doesn't take much since I watched both of them last year. Reyes is pretty bad. In my opinion, he's the kind of guy we should not be offering arbitration to but should non-tender. I look at Eveland as a 5th starter candidate/depth guy. In my opinion, major league starting pitching depth is worth a C- A-ball pitcher and a NP.

[Sports Guy]

I do agree with this. Too small a sample to know much. If his pitches were truly represented in that sample, his AAA numbers should be better.

Right..It was his FIFTH stint in the PCL. His K rate, at age 28, was just over 6. His walk rate was over 3.5...in AAA!!!! That's not really that good.

And we are supposed to overlook that and the rest of what he has done recently and look at what he did in 29 innings in the majors...and take that seriously?

[jonesing4pie]

Ok, so let's say he is. Let's say he can be a 1 WAR pitcher for this year.

Again, guys like Henry, Miclat and Martin have/had more upside and value tghan Jacobsen and Hoey. Guys like Martin and Henry can be 3rd and 4th players in larger deals. There are always guys like that in these bigger trades.

And yet, here we are, trading them for 2 dime a dozen players who both could have been non tendered...and we are supposed to be happy about this?

I agree with this. These guys would probably serve more valuable as last pieces of bigger trades. Of course if there are no actual big trades we are looking to make thats null but I agree with your sentiment.

[jtschrei]

O's trade Tyler Henson and Jarret Martin for Dana Eveland.

Translation: O's get rid of two guys that they think will never amount to anything for a guy who will never amount to anything, but at higher levels.

There's no doubt in my mind that DD has been advised that Martin and Henson are guys who are minor league fodder. The odds of minor league fodder ever hitting are greater than zero, but probably pretty miniscule. The odds of Eveland hitting are greater than zero, but probably pretty miniscule + a miniscule amount on top.

I totally understand SG on this topic. I also understand Tony.

However, I honestly only care because we have nothing better to discuss right now.

Exactly. One day we might revisit this trade to see who "won"... but I doubt it. SG seems angry more about the direction the front office is taking, i.e., not blowing things up and accumulating prospects than anything else. My question for SG, why so angry? You HAD to see this coming. Buck simply isn't going to manage a team without any established ML players.

[Sports Guy]

I wouldn't go that far. His pitch value's last year suggest he could better than those two and it certainly doesn't take much since I watched both of them last year. Reyes is pretty bad. In my opinion, he's the kind of guy we should not be offering arbitration to but should non-tender. I look at Eveland as a 5th starter candidate/depth guy. In my opinion, major league starting pitching depth is worth a C- A-ball pitcher and a NP.

I think it would only be fair if a link was posted to see those "outstanding" pitch values of his before his 29IP from last year:

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...508&position=P

[SrMeowMeow]

I want to hear from you guys who keep saying that Eveland is trash. If you can't provide more analysis than career numbers, than you opinion is just that, an opinion.

2011 pitch type values
Pitcher wFB/C wSL-CT/C wCB/C wCH/C (Basically runs they save or give up more than the average pitcher every 100 pitches)
Jo Je Reyes -1.06 0.45 -2.00 -2.91
Tillman -1.07 -1.31 -1.21 1.20
Jak -0.83 -3.25 -1.16 -3.32
Eveland 3.31 -1.20 -0.75 0.52

So I see two pitches above average and two below. a lefty with a fastball-changup combo and below average breaking stuff sounds like a 5th starter/depth guy for me. That's worth a C- level A-ball pitcher and NP minor league hitter.

Pitch type linear weights are a curiosity at best right now. And the sample size renders them literally meaningless here. Literally meaningless.

[Cakes2Kakes]

Could some of you who are crying about this please explain what YOU think we gave up in this deal?
I see a young pitcher that is years away from his chance to even sniff the ML, and half the time couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, (111 Walks 30 wild pitches and 20 hit batsman in 170 innings in low A ball). Then we have Henson who after 5 years in the minors is a no hit, questionable fielding corner outfield sub at very best!
We gave up basically nothing at all for a guy who can throw some ML caliber innings in the event our young guns under perform again or get injured. At the very least he is on the AAA shuttle to fill in when needed on the ML club, and if we get lucky he may turn things around in a new setting and be a serviceable back end starter. At any rate he at least offers something for the near future where the two we gave up will never see the Majors without a ticket unless a miracle turn around happens!

[Sports Guy]

Exactly. One day we might revisit this trade to see who "won"... but I doubt it. SG seems angry more about the direction the front office is taking, i.e., not blowing things up and accumulating prospects than anything else. My question for SG, why so angry? You HAD to see this coming. Buck simply isn't going to manage a team without any established ML players.

This has nothing to do with the direction the FO is going.

This has everything to do with trading some potentially valuable commodities for dime a dozen players.

Its just dumb.

I will tell you this...No way in hell AM makes either of these last 2 trades.

[RZNJ]

Ok, so let's say he is. Let's say he can be a 1 WAR pitcher for this year.

WHO THE HELL CARES? That's probably his best case scenario and that is something to hang your hat on? That maybe he can provide a little more value than a replacement player?

Again, guys like Henry, Miclat and Martin have/had more upside and value tghan Jacobsen and Hoey. Guys like Martin and Henry can be 3rd and 4th players in larger deals. There are always guys like that in these bigger trades.

And yet, here we are, trading them for 2 dime a dozen players who both could have been non tendered...and we are supposed to be happy about this?

For years, we have argued that you can take a guy like Cust, pay him 500K and get similar(maybe not better but similar) production out of him as you can a guy that you pay 4 million.

Same concept. If you can keep the prospect(whether he is a very good prospect or just an ok one) and sign a player that will give you similar production, you keep the younger player and hope that he either develops or that you can use him for something else.

People on here are like, well he is far away and has issues, so trading him for nothing is fine. Trust the Orioles! LOL...We are supposed to trust the worst organization in sports? Are you kidding me? Its absolutely mind boggling that anyone would say this is a good move on any level whatsoever.

You started a thread about how you still can't believe what we gave up to get Hardy...Well, we just traded better players for replacement level talent.

I generally agree with you but just playing devil's advocate. Jacobsen and Hoey were both more highly regarded at one time than either Henry and certainly Martin are right now. Rising up through the minors takes quite a bit of shine off of most prospects, which is the most likely scenario for Henry and Martin. On principal, I still agree that we both don't like either deal.