HHP: Can this organization even pretend it wants to win?

I'm at a loss for words. For 15 years they've done everything exactly the wrong way with nary an apology, but rather a continued stream of metaphorical middle fingers to every Orioles fan out there. Sure, there was 2004 when they made a valiant attempt at putting a winner together, but when it didn't work right away, they cleaned house and haven't come close to trying again since then.

Sure you can say a bunch of new faces in the front office should improve, but we've said that about new faces in the front office that quickly got old before. Now you're trading good players for filler, and not exactly denying that you might be interested in a twice-busted PED user already a 7pm shadow of what he once was. After all, it'd be better to get him than to try to hold on to an All-Star CF you can build around, but apparently choose not to. Another Pittsburgh Pirates-like trade is certain to come with him, because now we're focusing on a bunch of bush leaguers who may, MAY, even make the big leagues. But that's our only hope, apparently. Good luck, Adam Jones, where ever you end up this year or next. And I'm sure the Yankees are already eying up Matt Wieters. After all, he surely will be next after Jones, right?

In the meantime, other additions to the club have all been minor cosmetic enhancements that don't really do anything to address any long-term needs, save for the slight chance that one of the players has a Melvin Mora-like epiphany and surprises everyone, even the front office who acquired them.

And while all that goes on, a frustrated, disenchanted, and ever-increasingly apathetic fan base loses more and more interest. I'm 99% certain this organization, at least at the top, has zero interest in winning. They simply don't care. They have their MASN money coming in, they have a few thousand fans going to the park every night, and more when the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are in town. They are content and simply do not care. Arrogantly, apathetic, even. Heck, I'm wondering if they intentionally don't want to win, but just play us for suckers.

The rest of the front office has demonstrated little competency and ability to actually achieve the kind of success fans have a hard time even dreaming of being able to strive for anymore. Dan Duquette, saying this team will win more games than it loses, is out of his damn mind. Either he's flat out patronizing us, or he has no clue. Both are insulting. He was put in a no-win situation, hasn't seemingly done much to make it a winning situation, and will not get even a single, tiny bit of help from the top of the organization to change that.

Spring training hasn't even started yet, and many of you are already looking ahead to July when NFL training camps begin. A little closer to me is a team that was traveling at a racer's pace down the same path, but has since turned it around. They've invested in players at all levels and are putting forth an honest effort to win. And you know what? There's buzz. And many of my friends ask when I'm jumping on the bandwagon. I won't go that far, and I'll always love the O's, but I'm damn certain I'll be going to more games in Southeast DC than I do at the Inner Harbor. It'll be fascinating to watch an organization that cares.

In a Valentines Day like parlance, the Orioles are the girl who you want to fall in love with and think can be really great for you. But she won't bother putting in any effort and in fact ignores you. The Nationals are the new girl trying to catch your attention, and you hold her at arms length because you're still focused on the girl you love. After a while, a decision will have to be made though. Do you continue to pine for the girl you love, and who seemingly will never love you back? Or do you wake up one day and see that you've got a really great thing in front of you, and that it's time to move on?

Many fans have already decided to move on in that relationship. How many more will do the same? And how many times will it have to happen before someone at 333 West Camden Street actually cares enough to do something about it?

I think the unrequited love analogy is spot on. I feel like I've been investing tons of time and money in this team, for what exactly I'm not sure. I could live with them being terrible if I really felt like the will to win was there. Depressing.

We stink and now EVERYONE knows it. If I am a player I am listing teams as follows.

1.) Baltimore

2.) Houston

3.) Pirates

4.) Indians

5.) Mets

I do not like Pittsburgh and Cleveland. The teams are not very good and I do not like the area. I would lump Baltimore in there too if I wasn't from Baltimore. I like New York a little, but I would rather play for the best team in NY. I also think that the Mets are in trouble moving forward. I would rather play for the Rangers than Astros at this point and the Astros have issues.

We stink and now EVERYONE knows it. If I am a player I am listing teams as follows.

1.) Baltimore

2.) Houston

3.) Pirates

4.) Indians

5.) Mets

I do not like Pittsburgh and Cleveland. The teams are not very good and I do not like the area. I would lump Baltimore in there too if I wasn't from Baltimore. I like New York a little, but I would rather play for the best team in NY. I also think that the Mets are in trouble moving forward. I would rather play for the Rangers than Astros at this point and the Astros have issues.

What's your fWAR?

People are acting like we just traded 5 years of Felix Hernandez for one year of Kevin Gregg and Denny Baez. If this deal, which is a minor loss at best, is the straw that broke the camels back, I don't know what to tell you. Up until yesterday most people thought we were having a decent offseason. I fail to believe this deal suddenly makes it the worst offseason of all time.

From what I have read Angelos holds grudges against people that were friends for a long time and they dont' even know why. I suppose the Oriole fan base somehow pissed off Peter Angelos and he is getting back us for our infractions. He is a trial lawyer after all.

Couldn't agree any more with the opening post. I just feel like the O's don't care if they win now, win in the next 5 years, or win ever again.

People are acting like we just traded 5 years of Felix Hernandez for one year of Kevin Gregg and Denny Baez. If this deal, which is a minor loss at best, is the straw that broke the camels back, I don't know what to tell you. Up until yesterday most people thought we were having a decent offseason. I fail to believe this deal suddenly makes it the worst offseason of all time.

^ What he said.

People are acting like we just traded 5 years of Felix Hernandez for one year of Kevin Gregg and Denny Baez. If this deal, which is a minor loss at best, is the straw that broke the camels back, I don't know what to tell you. Up until yesterday most people thought we were having a decent offseason. I fail to believe this deal suddenly makes it the worst offseason of all time.

Most people thought we were having a terrible season before yesterday.

I am not expecting it to happen, but since 2009 the future has been staked on "the calvary". This is their last chance to prove something, so I don't know what people were expecting. This team was not going to sign big name free agents and we all know they won't trade away anyone of value until they know for sure what the pitching can do.

My guess is if the pitching doesn't take a step forward this year, there will be a massive firesale in July and the Orioles will be back in the full-on rebuild mode instead of trying to add mediocre players to a team that has always been relying on its pitching to move forward. With the organizational changes DD has made, hopefully a real rebuilding period can actually work.

But as with anything related to the Orioles, who the F knows.

So a thread like this, while stating the baser emotions one feels about this team, is not exactly accurate.

Most people thought we were having a terrible season before yesterday.

My grade before this trade was a "C-". It is now a "D"

Most people thought we were having a terrible season before yesterday.

If you go by the poll in the thread "If we're finished.." then you're wrong.

Great post. The only place I might disagree is in regard to this particular trade, I don't see why Angelos gets the blame. I'm sure he'd have been happy to save some more coins and acquire prospects. This falls on DD and since he's just starting, it strongly suggests more gloom and doom to come.

Has the hangout ever had a night in DC? Maybe it would get some attention and a little humiliation (or more) might push some action. At the very least, it would be enjoyable to watch a decent franchise.

Anyone ever played the game "Out of the Park Baseball"? When a player fans like is traded, regardless of how good or bad the trade is, you always get an email saying "Fans are outraged that you traded XXXX!! Fan interest goes down."

That's what's happening with this Guthrie trade.

If you believe Forbes, in 2011 the Orioles have had their highest value and realized more revenue since 2002. They've also had their 3rd highest operating income in that span.

You would think attendance and wins would matter most to any ownership group. With the Orioles at least, it doesn't seem to correlate as revenue grows while wins and attendance shrink.

Given that, I think its reasonable to assume that ownership is willing to build a winner IF it doesn't screw with the above equation. Winning is not first, but maybe it's a close second....or third.

I think that's the reality and I understand. I would prefer ownership to find those high margins in an attempt to build a winner first but it's just not going to be the case. I also don't believe they have the intellectual capital to do so when it comes to the business of baseball.

I won't find fault with anyone who turns their attention to the Nationals as they go for broke. I'll probably watch them a little bit myself as well.