The Media on Eli Manning

[ccbird]

Another note, coming into the '12 season his peers, the players in the league did not vote him into the top 100 players in the league. There were 12 QBs on that list named ahead of him. Now certainly you could debate before this year whether or not he was a top 100 and top 12 QB but the fact that his peers didn't have him in there should tell you something. Now, after the year he just had and really playing well in this past playoff run including the Superbowl I don;t think there is any doubt he is a top 50 player. The point I'm trying to make, the point Kurt Warner made, etc is he needs to continue to play at the level he has played at this year to be a HOF QB.

[ccbird]

Actually they have played 4 times in 5 years and the Giants have beaten them 3 times. One more time and ccbird will have hs best of seven series there.

LOL... Comprehension issues. "07 Pats vs '07 Giants. Not an Eli vs Tom series. Last I looked the '07 series was 1-1 and you'd be a fool to think the '07 Giants beat the '07 Pats in a 5 or 7 game series.

[NewMarketSean]

No, I sound like a fan that actually thinks about how good a player is instead of just going, oh 2 superbowls, nothing else matters. Pretty ridiculous for actual intelligent and thorough analysis being equated to being a jaded fan.

Nothing else matters? Who said that. I've mentioned Eli's stats, which have started to get up not Peyton territory. With just 1 or no rings, yeah Eli wouldn't be in the discussion, but he is because of those two rings. He still has a way to go but unless he falls off a cliff he's probably going to get in.

[NewMarketSean]

Yeah, and that it doesn't matter that he was never a top 5 QB until this year (not even close except for maybe 1 year) and he didn't play that well in his first SB win where they didn't score nearly as much as people thought they would have had to.

But again, I give him tons of credit for this season. He had a great year and a very strong postseason. I just need a QB to have more than one great year before enshrining him into the Hall. I will also continue to realize that football is a team game and context matters.

It matters on a much smaller scale, like individual games. What if Evans made that catch? What if Cundiff made that kick. When you are talking about what if's in a career, nothing is off limits. What if the refs called a fumble instead of the tuck rule on Brady? What if Vinetri misses that kick in the first SB? What if Tyree doesn't make the catch on his helmet? What if James Harrison doesn't make that INT before halftime? See how we can keep doing this, on and on without end?

Let's come back to this thread in 3 years and see where we are with Eli. All I am saying now is he deserves to the HOF talk. Any QB with 2 rings deserves that, IMO. It means they are doing something right, and probably REALLY right.

[mweb]

Nothing else matters? Who said that. I've mentioned Eli's stats, which have started to get up not Peyton territory. With just 1 or no rings, yeah Eli wouldn't be in the discussion, but he is because of those two rings. He still has a way to go but unless he falls off a cliff he's probably going to get in.

He's had one year with great stats and one year with really good stats. So other than this one year, which in terms of QB Rating and advanced stats, still doesn't compare with Peyton, no his stats aren't in Peyton territory. So nothing else seems to matter much. Is that better? I mean if he won the SB this year while throwing 600 yards less and had 4 points fewer QB Rating, I'm pretty sure the conversation on this thread and in the media would be similar because it's mainly abou the SB's. There is no other argument for him being considered on his brothers level or at a HOF level or anywhere close to it. As I've said, if he continues to play like he did this past season, great, he'll be deserving of many more accolades. But right now, he's a QB who in 8 years, has only been great once and really good once. Every other year he's been about average or below it. That's not the resume of a HOF player unless not much matters other than SB's.

[mweb]

It matters on a much smaller scale, like individual games. What if Evans made that catch? What if Cundiff made that kick. When you are talking about what if's in a career, nothing is off limits. What if the refs called a fumble instead of the tuck rule on Brady? What if Vinetri misses that kick in the first SB? What if Tyree doesn't make the catch on his helmet? What if James Harrison doesn't make that INT before halftime? See how we can keep doing this, on and on without end?

Let's come back to this thread in 3 years and see where we are with Eli. All I am saying now is he deserves to the HOF talk. Any QB with 2 rings deserves that, IMO. It means they are doing something right, and probably REALLY right.

And I am perfectly fine with these what if's. Nothing wrong with considering them instead of just going with the most basic analysis of well so and so QB won and that's that without even putting much into why and how his team won.

He did something really right this year, he had a couple of great games in the postseason the first SB year, but overall, no, he did not play that well, including in the SB. You don't have to be a really good or great QB to win a SB and it's possible for an average or so QB to win a SB and then win it again as an average or simply good QB, or it's possible for a QB to win one SB as an average QB and then one as a really good to great one. The latter is what happened and is part of why it's a mistake to place so much emphasis on SB's for QB's. People mistakenly assume he must have been really good to great both SB's, and then why not assume he was really good to great in between as well?

And yes, as I've said multiple times, we can come back in 3 years, and if he continues to play like he did this year, then great. Maybe you'll saying I told you so, but that would be missing the point.