What Evidence For Rick Peterson's Biomechanical Analysis

[JayThomas]

What evidence is there that Rick Peterson's system prevents injuries? I understand that this is a difficult thing to measure and/or analyze, but it seems like Melewski keeps presenting this as if it's obvious that it's been true in the past.

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_mele...-injuries.html

When exactly did Rick develop this system? It seems to me he's had some pretty high profile pitchers get injured on his watch or shortly thereafter:

Mark Mulder
Victor Zambrano
Tim Hudson (after the fact)
Johan Santana (shortly after the fact)

Why do we think he's going to prevent/reduce injuries here?

[Todd-O]

It's a good point... but that's a scratch of the surface analysis. You'd need to come up with the total number of pitchers he's been in contact with and then have access to information about he interacted with all of them. There's a lot of variables involved, for sure...

[TGO]

It's a good point... but that's a scratch of the surface analysis. You'd need to come up with the total number of pitchers he's been in contact with and then have access to information about he interacted with all of them. There's a lot of variables involved, for sure...

I think you have it backwards. If Peterson and the Orioles think there's something special about what he does, the onus is on them to show it. Of course, I'm willing to wait and see what he does here.

But I think the original criticism of Melewski somewhat off base, too. I mean, the last sentence is: "I don't know if biomechanical analysis will work for the Orioles, but I know this: Whatever approach the club has taken in recent years just hasn't been working." Doesn't sound to me like Melewski is making any claims here.

[scOtt]

What evidence is there that Rick Peterson's system prevents injuries? I understand that this is a difficult thing to measure and/or analyze, but it seems like Melewski keeps presenting this as if it's obvious that it's been true in the past.

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_mele...-injuries.html

When exactly did Rick develop this system? It seems to me he's had some pretty high profile pitchers get injured on his watch or shortly thereafter:

Mark Mulder
Victor Zambrano
Tim Hudson (after the fact)
Johan Santana (shortly after the fact)

Why do we think he's going to prevent/reduce injuries here?

You posted the wrong Melewski. Read this one, especially the Peterson quotes about working with Dr. James Andrews. Answers your own thread.

[DrungoHazewood]

You posted the wrong Melewski. Read this one, especially the Peterson quotes about working with Dr. James Andrews. Answers your own thread.

I'm very encouraged by that. Although a little voice in my head is saying trying to teach proper biomechanical techniques to someone who's been in the O's system for years is like teaching vector calculus to a middle schooler struggling with algebra 1. "But Mr. Peterson, this feels wrong. Scotty McGregor has been working with me since I was drafted to throw 86 mph across my body."

[Tony-OH]

I fall in the crowd that says "Why not?" Anything we can do to maximize the mechanics or your pitchers is a good things if you ask me. I'm kind of excited the Orioles actually have some one like Peterson in the organization doing stuff like this.

[bobmc]

I'm very encouraged by that. Although a little voice in my head is saying trying to teach proper biomechanical techniques to someone who's been in the O's system for years is like teaching vector calculus to a middle schooler struggling with algebra 1. "But Mr. Peterson, this feels wrong. Scotty McGregor has been working with me since I was drafted to throw 86 mph across my body."

Yah - that's the sad part about losing Kim for at least 30 days, he's the only one save for the NZ softballer that might make anything out of this....oops

[JayThomas]

I fall in the crowd that says "Why not?" Anything we can do to maximize the mechanics or your pitchers is a good things if you ask me. I'm kind of excited the Orioles actually have some one like Peterson in the organization doing stuff like this.

Me to. I'm thrilled to have Peterson in the organization and in the role he's in. I think he can help us get results. I just questioned the emphasis that has been assigned to his hiring with respect to pitchers' health, because the first things I think of when I think of Peterson are the A's and then I think of Mulder and the Mets and then I think of Zambrano and Santana.

[JayThomas]

I'm very encouraged by that. Although a little voice in my head is saying trying to teach proper biomechanical techniques to someone who's been in the O's system for years is like teaching vector calculus to a middle schooler struggling with algebra 1. "But Mr. Peterson, this feels wrong. Scotty McGregor has been working with me since I was drafted to throw 86 mph across my body."

The article is clearly about his work with Dr. Andrews. (But) the main results seemed to be awesome pitching in Oakland. However, when I think of those three pitchers I think of Mulder's getting injured on Peterson's watch and Hudson breaking down later. I'm OK taking away that his biomechanics helped produce great pitching results but I don't see the evidence that it prevented injuries.

[TheBee]

"In 1995, the Texas Rangers began charting the progress of pitchers in the system who had undergone arm surgery. The Rangers found that about 85 percent of pitchers with elbow injuries made complete comebacks, while fewer than 50 percent came back from shoulder problems to regain their previous levels of health and performance."
"Milwaukee Brewers pitching coach Rick Peterson is on a personal crusade against pitching injuries. In 2009, Peterson helped found a company called 3P Sports that incorporates his philosophies on biomechanics, conditioning and pitching drills to help enhance performance and reduce injuries for pitchers at all amateur levels. Dr. James Andrews and former big leaguers Tom Glavine and Al Leiter are among the pitching experts involved with Peterson's program.
"What's the best practice to optimize the prevention of injury? First, you need to have a great physical conditioning program so that pitchers can handle the torque and the movement in their deliveries,'' Peterson said. "And second, you need a biomechanical analysis to make sure the delivery is clean. There are certain red flags in a pitching delivery where the prediction of injury is off-the-charts high.''
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...rry&id=5568179

So, I guess Peterson's hope is that since surgery has a only 50% success rate on shoulder injuries, the way to try to help the situation is through prevention. I thought the 1995 quote might not apply anymore after surgical advances, so I did a quick bit of analysis. I grabbed the first 10 pitchers I found who had gone through shoulder surgery between 7/08 and 3/10. Then I looked at their fastball velocity and k per nine before and after the surgeries (my quick approximation of "stuff"). Ted Lilly, Eric Bedard, Jose Ascanio, Cory Wade, and to a lesser degree (k per nine drop) Chien Ming Wang appeared to have met the requirement of "essentially regained their previous levels of health and performance." While Chris Young, Brandon Webb, Eric Hurley, Dustin McGowan, and Angel Guzman had not met that criteria. All except Hurley (whose k per 9 dropped from 8.68 to 4.91) have struggled to regain their health. So, the ten I looked at seemed to suggest the 50% mark may still be accurate. Let's hope Britton's shoulder is truly ok.
Ted Lilly before and after... velocity =87.2/87.3 and k per 9= 7.68/7.38
Eric Bedard velocity =91.5/90.4 and k per 9= 9.76/8.70
Cory Wade velocity =89.2/88.7 and k per 9= 5.86/6.81
jose Ascanio AAA stats velocity =93.5/93.6 and k per9= 8.24/10.23
Chien Ming Wang velocity =91.8/90.6 and k per9= 5.12/3.61

[Frobby]

Melewski gives an update on the testing:

The Orioles will have put a total of 35 pitchers through this analysis of a pitcher's delivery which is designed to both identify issues which could lead to an injury and improve a pitcher's performance. Almost the entire spring training major league roster of pitchers took part and today some minor league hurlers are expected to be analyzed as well.

Peterson said the O's pitchers have been receptive to the analysis.

"From what I've gathered, these guys think it is absolutely awesome. They realize the Baltimore Orioles - Mr. Angelos and Dan Duquette and Buck Showalter from the top down - are making a commitment to the pitchers to offer them the best possible information and practices. As they say, best in class, right?" he said.

"This is the foundation and the plan is to utilize this as a resource for our pitching program, our pitching system. This allows us to customize an individual program for each pitcher based on his analysis. Now we can make some adjustments on his delivery and pinpoint very specifically what those adjustments can be utilizing certain drills."

Starting pitchers typically get analyzed during a session where they throw eight pitches from the windup and eight from the stretch while relievers that pitch exclusively from the stretch throw 10 pitches that way.

The Orioles will get results back on some of the pitchers this week but more complete analysis on every pitcher that took part will take a little longer than that.

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_mele...-analysis.html