Do you think there should be voting restrictions?

[flashjordnk]

How about we let 14 year old's who get straight A's in school vote too? There are smarter kids than some of these govt leaches. Those who prefer to simply be a drain (and be happy about it) are getting their cake (which I pay for) and eat it too.

Look, 14 year olds don't get to vote because they aren't afforded full rights. When a 14 year old commits a crime they are held to a different standard for reasons that determine that they are not rational actors yet. Can they they get straight A's doesn't show full rational capabilities for decision making, so they can neither vote, nor can they be charged with adult crimes.

Again if you want argue some people get their cake and eat it too, make a thread about those government policies being wrong. And overturn those laws.

the democrats, like Maxine Waters would be fighting tooth and nail for them to be included. The checks and balances of our system would take care of that in my mind

See your the one making this about political issues and not about democracy.

Maybe you could make that argument, but I wouldn't. If you pay taxes, you get to vote. Afterall, you are funding the government expenditures.

My problem is that I fund people who are on "BS welfare" and "BS disability" simply because they don't want to work or they paid a crooked Dr to say that they are incapable of working for the rest of their lives.

Why can't felons vote? What does their crime have to do with not being to vote? Maybe they don't like how their prison is being run? Just because they were convicted of what could be a pretty flimsy charge in the first place?

There is a largely interesting discussion about the democratic process and how it's executed. But if you want a forum to vent about policies (ie. unemployment and disability) that you disagree with, I really don't think this is the forum for that. Your simply attaching your dislike of a policy and saying the mechanism to stop it should be taking away their right to vote.

I'd much rather our government take away the ability for those people to get those benefits, rather than strip them of their right to vote.

[paulcoates]

Look, 14 year olds don't get to vote because they aren't afforded full rights. When a 14 year old commits a crime they are held to a different standard for reasons that determine that they are not rational actors yet. Can they they get straight A's doesn't show full rational capabilities for decision making, so they can neither vote, nor can they be charged with adult crimes.

Again if you want argue some people get their cake and eat it too, make a thread about those government policies being wrong. And overturn those laws.



See your the one making this about political issues and not about democracy.



There is a largely interesting discussion about the democratic process and how it's executed. But if you want a forum to vent about policies (ie. unemployment and disability) that you disagree with, I really don't think this is the forum for that. Your simply attaching your dislike of a policy and saying the mechanism to stop it should be taking away their right to vote.

I'd much rather our government take away the ability for those people to get those benefits, rather than strip them of their right to vote.

To be honest, I wasn't making it political. I was simply saying that with checks and balances, this couldn't happen. Not to mention that it could bew that the Supreme Court would simply overturn something like this. I would much rather they take away that right too.

But to me, it says something about the state and progression of our country that more and more people don't pay taxes, which of course means those that do pay the taxes have to pay more of them. And while it may be a stretch to take away their right to vote, you are definitely right that we need to take away these benefits to those abusing them. Maybe it would actually force people to go and get a job. I just have a problem with 1/3rd of my salary going to support programs that are being abused. And while a certain portion of that blame goes to the government without a doubt, ultimately the people who are abusing are the ones actually stealing from those that pay into it. Part of the problem with long term Social Security is those abusing the system, but I digress.

You are right. This can quickly get political, and I hate politics.

Sorry Tony

[sangar]

The more of this thread I read, the better I like Lordbrook's idea.

[flashjordnk]

You are right. This can quickly get political, and I hate politics.

So outstanding of the politics of all of this. If anyone opposes a policy and because of who it benefits and who it hurts, is the smartest mechanism to take away the vote of those who benefit?

You have all the room in the world to believe what you believe and I can understand why you feel that way, and might disagree for a lot of reasons. But I think our country stands for a lot more than ever using voting rights as a way to fix any political problem.

And to be fair to you, I think it's just as crazy and ridiculous that we would "test" voters to be "smart" enough. Who sets the standard? Who slides the scale? And can't we all agree that leaves way too much power in the hands of the few that write/grade that test for to endanger our democracy?

[NewOwnerNeeded]

A few years ago, I was participating in the early voting we have here in NC. I saw something that bothered me, but I wasn't sure what the solution to this would be. There was a van full of mentally challenged adults and their social workers. Standing in line behind these adults, it dawned on me that even if these adults could willfully choose the candidate they wanted, they most likely didn't understand the difference between the candidates. When I went to my voting station, one of the adults was next to me and their social worker was telling them what holes to punch in the ballot, which bugged me even more.

All adults who are citizens and not felons should be allowed to vote. But I think they should have to be able to choose for themselves.

[Sports Guy]

The country's biggest problem is the whole political system. Politicians are more concerned with gaining power in elections than using that power to make any real changes. In the rare occasion that a real change is made, the opposing party complains about it until it gets repealed. It's just an endless cycle of disagreement.

Of course this is a huge problem...Should be 1 term for 6 years, so they can actually work for the good of the country as opposed to the good of themselves.

But still, people are dumb and have killed a lot of things.

These country needs a total change in so many areas...but not one of them will ever be changed.

[Sports Guy]

SG, I don't think the group you are speaking of (i.e. the people that are dumb and don't follow every day politics) vote in large enough numbers to matter anyway. At least not large enough to make trying to implement your test idea worth it*

*Your idea would be expensive, both in implementation and in the costs it would take to defend against the countless lawsuits you would face

You may be right and this would likely be more important if the country did the smart thing and went by popular vote as opposed to awful electoral college.

[TGO]

Of course this is a huge problem...Should be 1 term for 6 years, so they can actually work for the good of the country as opposed to the good of themselves.

But still, people are dumb and have killed a lot of things.

These country needs a total change in so many areas...but not one of them will ever be changed.

If you have term limits they will work just as hard to please the corporations and lobbying firms that can give them a job as they currently work to please corporations and others who give them money to win reelection.

[Lucky Jim]

While I wouldn't vote for land owners only voting, I also wouldn't be opposed to it.

However, back when that was the case, condos/apartments, etc...probably weren't really around, especially to the extent of today.

So, I do think some concessions should be made in that regards.

Either way, a test should be taken. Too many morons who have no idea what they are talking about in basic, normal everyday things deciding on the fate of the country is too much of a scary thought to me.

The stupidity of this country is why we are in such a mess in many ways...As much as I can't stand the gov't, stupidity is still this country's biggest problem.

First, one doesn't need to be literate about policies at a granular level to know how to vote according to one's interests. Political parties offer heuristics that, while imperfect, have often functioned to the benefit of even the illiterate and ignorant. Further, this is an arbitrary distinction - who's to say compassion or courage, which are totally separate from "intelligence" or "learning," aren't equally valid foundations for a vote? My grandfather dropped out of school in the 7th grade, and I'd trust his vote over any number of people I went to school with (either the ultra-left in graduate school, or the ultra-right in law school) any time.

Second, the property issue is patently ridiculous. I currently rent. And last year I paid more in taxes than most people make. We need to stop fetishizing home ownership.

[Lucky Jim]

No because I had a job by the end of that year.

Ok, how about this concession. You had to pay at least X in taxes (based on some scale) over the course of the past 5 years if you are between the ages of 20 and 60 unless you are a college student

Democratic rights aren't built on a foundation of "deposit." People who don't earn are still involved in politics on the basis of future interest. This fundamentally misconstrues the purpose and operation of our political system.

I mean, think about it: unemployment has floated around 9% for the past few years. Are these the people you want to give less say in government?

[Stotle]

And last year I paid more in taxes than most people make.

Fat cat....You are clearly an out of touch rich person.

[Sanfran327]

The Bill or Rights and the Constitution are the two most important documents in American history. I wouldn't do anything to jeapordize either (even if that statement is a little naive). Take away fundamental rights of the people, and you're sliding dangerously close to communism, socialism, or worse. A person's right to vote is too valuable to take away.

[SilentJames]

Simply, no. There should be no restrictions. The end.

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[SilentJames]

The funny thing about this debate: the people that bring it up never envision THEIR voting rights being taken away. Its always "other peoples" that shouldn't have a voice.

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[Sports Guy]

The funny thing about this debate: the people that bring it up never envision THEIR voting rights being taken away. Its always "other peoples" that shouldn't have a voice.

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If I took a basic test and failed, I should have my vote taken away.