Gregg Williams will never coach anywhere ever again

[NewMarketSean]

I am divided on this issue.

On one hand I know these are people's lives we're talking about and concussions can very well change a persons life for the worse. Just look at all that Brian Roberts is going through.

OTOH, I think the NFL is going overboard with this bounty stuff. Of course they shouldn't be rewarding players with money for hurting other players. That is wrong.

But what Williams said on the video (outside of the money reward) is probably being said in most locker-rooms.

I am also puzzled that the Saints allowed this to be filmed. They were already under review by the league for bounties and the video that was being filmed was about injuries in football. Pretty dumb decision by the Saints IMO.

[Tony-OH]

Hey I just noticed you have 9 birds! You can field your own team now!

Hahaha. I didn't even notice. I just hope my right field Bird starts hitting home runs again!

[srock]

I'm of the mindset that this gernally happens in all locker rooms, especially football. I forget who was on ESPN this morning (a former player), but he said that the #1 job of the defense is to intimidate the opposing teams' offense and strike fear in their eyes.

I really have no problem with that. Now, I don't think Williams goes over the line by targeting specific players and those specific players' body parts (i.e. Smith's neck and Crabtree's ACL), but his general point I have no problem with.

Generally I agree.

However, there is a difference between motivation and tactics.

Rhetorical physical violence meant to energize a team against an opponent is one thing. It doesn't necessarily lead to injury.

When the tactic is to injure, this is a big problem. And the tactic includes incentives from authorities within an organization thereby codifying the practice? Doubles the bad.

[VeveJones007]

I love how people get offended by this yet those are the same people who stand up and cheer when they see a monster hit. This is why so many watch football!!!!

Yeah, the stadium is always going crazy when a player is being carted off the field.

I expected more from you on this. There's a difference between a good, clean, hard hit and one where a guy gets hurt.

[Todd-O]

Generally I agree.

However, there is a difference between motivation and tactics.

Rhetorical physical violence meant to energize a team against an opponent is one thing. It doesn't necessarily lead to injury.

When the tactic is to injure, this is a big problem. And the tactic includes incentives from authorities within an organization thereby codifying the practice? Doubles the bad.

I generally agree with this. I'm not naive to think that players aren't out for blood in NFL games... ESPN had a former player/analyst on this morning that echoed that... He said he had heard rah-rah pep talks telling players to go for hard shots...But he also said that naming names and targeting body parts on specified players was over the line and uncalled for and not kosher. He also said that most NFL players, especially the ones that have been injured or are coming back from injury would not be ok with this kind of practice because they could be next. Read: out of football = no income.

As for other commentary on the NFL... People love to build the NFL into this mound that the average joe public doesn't understand. The violence. The playbooks. The tactics. Frankly, I don't buy it. This is not to say that the NFL isn't a complicated sport. But, anyone that is halfway intelligent could devote their entire days to learn and understand a system if they were paid to do it. Let's not make it more than it is... At the end if the day, it's football... It's not astrophysics or neurosurgery. It's simply entertainment that comes on tv a few times a week.

[flashjordnk]

Yeah, the stadium is always going crazy when a player is being carted off the field.

I expected more from you on this. There's a difference between a good, clean, hard hit and one where a guy gets hurt.

Actually I'd disagree with your stance here.

There is something inherently immoral about the violence of football. And our rejection of the "clean" hits being moral because we codified the rules to be so, but then to decry head shots as the line of which our morality kicks in and we regret the violence is silly to me.

Ray Lewis allegedly hits as hard as a battering ram through a door (according to sports science). Is it that much moral that Ray Lewis cleanly hit a guy in the chest with the power of battering ram, than a guy hitting him in the head. I get the head is worse...but taking a step back, how much worse is it really?

I think the line hear is much more blurry the NFL wants to make it seem.

[flashjordnk]

Yeah, the stadium is always going crazy when a player is being carted off the field.

I think this is a pretty extreme strawman by the way. You don't think Ravens fans weren't a little happy when they found out that Ngata broke Roethlisbergers nose? What about when Mendenall broke his collarbone and was done for the year? I took a little joy in Brady going down for the year when Pollard took him out too. And I wasn't sad int he least when Pollard hurt Gronkowski.

We may not openly cheer it, but there certainly is a dark part of all football fans that certainly doesn't "object" to opposing teams injuries, and doesn't feel 100% bad for our opponents when they get hurt. We choose to ignore we feel this way because as a societal commentary on football it's a bit easier to stomach. But make no mistake, if I found out Roethlisberger was out for the year, I might feel a little bad, but I'd feel a lot more good at the end of the day about it. Does this make me an a-hole. Maybe it does...but it's at the very least true.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah, the stadium is always going crazy when a player is being carted off the field.

I expected more from you on this. There's a difference between a good, clean, hard hit and one where a guy gets hurt.

And there were no illegal hits being made either.

[srock]

I generally agree with this. I'm not naive to think that players aren't out for blood in NFL games... ESPN had a former player/analyst on this morning that echoed that... He said he had heard rah-rah pep talks telling players to go for hard shots...But he also said that naming names and targeting body parts on specified players was over the line and uncalled for and not kosher. He also said that most NFL players, especially the ones that have been injured or are coming back from injury would not be ok with this kind of practice because they could be next. Read: out of football = no income.

As for other commentary on the NFL... People love to build the NFL into this mound that the average joe public doesn't understand. The violence. The playbooks. The tactics. Frankly, I don't buy it. This is not to say that the NFL isn't a complicated sport. But, anyone that is halfway intelligent could devote their entire days to learn and understand a system if they were paid to do it. Let's not make it more than it is... At the end if the day, it's football... It's not astrophysics or neurosurgery. It's simply entertainment that comes on tv a few times a week.

The NFL media machine always finds someway to keep the league relevant during the offseason. Just look how much TV time they milked out of Brett Favre retiring. It went on for like 6 years (or so it seems).

Sometimes I seriously wonder if they just make stuff up (players and coaches in on it) just to keep the drama active. (Not that this seems like one of those times)

[RavNMadMan]

Hahaha. I didn't even notice. I just hope my right field Bird starts hitting home runs again!

I can picture the score book now.......Wow that was a really nice bird-bird-bird double play right there....damn those birds are good

[Todd-O]

Brian Billick on ESPN: Gregg Williams' specificity of targeting certain players and specific body parts is shocking and over the line... It is completely different than calling to go after someone hard and other macho talk. He focused on the call for going after crabtree's knee.... He says that calling for a targeted injury shot to a specific body part is something he is not okay with or familiar with and says it is wrong. He says that most players would not be okay with targeting another player's knees.... That Williams probably lost a lot of players when calling out specific injuries to inflict.

[flashjordnk]

Brian Billick on ESPN: Gregg Williams' specificity of targeting certain players and specific body parts is shocking and over the line... It is completely different than calling to go after someone hard and other macho talk. He focused on the call for going after crabtree's knee.... He says that calling for a targeted injury shot to a specific body part is something he is not okay with or familiar with and says it is wrong. He says that most players would not be okay with targeting another player's knees.... That Williams probably lost a lot of players when calling out specific injuries to inflict.

Are you a Ravens fan? Were you sad when Siragusa fell on Gannon? Would you have been more upset about that hit if you found out they knew Gannon's arm was already bothering him some before the game? Does it bother you that Siragusa said recently if he got fined for the hit he wouldn't have cared because it helped the team.

This is ridiculous, why do you think players get injury reports of opposing teams? For fun? Do people just completely miss the pure violence of the sport and reject it?

It might help me, can someone distinguish between "Go Knock that guy out" and "Go Knock that guy out in the knee because it's the part of him that's already hurt"? Is it really the specificity that bothers you? You're OK with clean hits yielding massive injuries because they were just trying to stop the guy from moving the ball forward. People need to get their heads out of their butts and realize football is a full on, outright, brutal sport part of which is when hitting your opponent it's an attempt to injure them. Any rejection of that notion is naive if you ask me.

[SammyBirdland]

Are you a Ravens fan? Were you sad when Siragusa fell on Gannon? Would you have been more upset about that hit if you found out they knew Gannon's arm was already bothering him some before the game? Does it bother you that Siragusa said recently if he got fined for the hit he wouldn't have cared because it helped the team.

This is ridiculous, why do you think players get injury reports of opposing teams? For fun? Do people just completely miss the pure violence of the sport and reject it?

It might help me, can someone distinguish between "Go Knock that guy out" and "Go Knock that guy out in the knee because it's the part of him that's already hurt"? Is it really the specificity that bothers you? You're OK with clean hits yielding massive injuries because they were just trying to stop the guy from moving the ball forward. People need to get their heads out of their butts and realize football is a full on, outright, brutal sport part of which is when hitting your opponent it's an attempt to injure them. Any rejection of that notion is naive if you ask me.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The only thing shocking about this Gregg Williams stuff is that he felt the need to voice out loud that his players should try to take advantage of star players' injuries. As a football player, that should be common sense. If Tom Brady has a boo-boo that you can exploit to get his backup into the game, you exploit it. No instructions need to be given.

It's a violent game.

[Todd-O]

Are you a Ravens fan? Were you sad when Siragusa fell on Gannon? Would you have been more upset about that hit if you found out they knew Gannon's arm was already bothering him some before the game? Does it bother you that Siragusa said recently if he got fined for the hit he wouldn't have cared because it helped the team.

This is ridiculous, why do you think players get injury reports of opposing teams? For fun? Do people just completely miss the pure violence of the sport and reject it?

It might help me, can someone distinguish between "Go Knock that guy out" and "Go Knock that guy out in the knee because it's the part of him that's already hurt"? Is it really the specificity that bothers you? You're OK with clean hits yielding massive injuries because they were just trying to stop the guy from moving the ball forward. People need to get their heads out of their butts and realize football is a full on, outright, brutal sport part of which is when hitting your opponent it's an attempt to injure them. Any rejection of that notion is naive if you ask me.

In other words: Brian Billick is lying. What is his incentive to lie? No one is saying the sport isn't violent with bone crushing injury causing hits.

[flashjordnk]

In other words: Brian Billick is lying. What is his incentive to lie? No one is saying the sport isn't violent with bone crushing injury causing hits.

What's his incentive to lie? He's a talking media head! He's got his pitchfork in his left hand and his torch in his right.

Give me a break he doesn't have an incentive.

John Harbaugh brought a sword and a shovel into a Ravens locker room to get his guys pumped up. What kind of message did bringing a sword into a locker room send? Are you are against that too.

I bet you also hate fighting in hockey, and brawls in baseball right?