Jeremy Guthrie's Second start

[RZNJ]

Was switching the channels last night and saw Jeremy Guthrie on the mound against the Giants in the 3rd or 4th inning. The score read Rockies 6 and Giants 0. Now Jeremy Guthrie is a standup guy, as far as I know, and I always liked how he carried himself and spoke. BUT, I said to myself, wouldn't it be funny (not haha) if Guthrie didn't take advantage of this run support. I mentioned once before that I always had the feeling that Guthrie pitched just well enough to lose and when he did get some run support that it felt like he would give the runs back. Stats might not support that but it was just a feeling I had.
Well, don't you know, two seconds after watching the game, he gives up back to back homeruns. I switch the channel and come back and see the score is now 6-4 and Guthrie is already being lifted. I'm not sure what my point is exactly, except that people who were down on Hammel and this trade might have to rethink it at some point.

[SammyBirdland]

Coors Field is a bad place to be when you're as susceptible to the home run as Guts is.


Just saw the score on that one -- CR 17, SF 8

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

Guthrie allowed six earned on nine hits and two walks over 3 1/3 innings. He gave up back-to-back homers in the fourth and struck out just one. His ERA after two starts is at 7.84.

Spotted 6runs against Lincecum and gave them all back. Didn't factor in the decision.

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

I mentioned once before that I always had the feeling that Guthrie pitched just well enough to lose and when he did get some run support that it felt like he would give the runs back. Stats might not support that but it was just a feeling I had.

I'm not sure what my point is exactly, except that people who were down on Hammel and this trade might have to rethink it at some point.

I used to have that same feeling about Guthrie. I would love to see some data on that.

I got the impression people didn't think it was a bad trade from a value standpoint. I think the bigger issue was that we didn't get younger players. It was similar to the Koji trade in that sense. Both of those trades may make us better in the short term; unfortunately it's improving us when we're not contenders.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

I used to have that same feeling about Guthrie. I would love to see some data on that.

I got the impression people didn't think it was a bad trade from a value standpoint. I think the bigger issue was that we didn't get younger players. It was similar to the Koji trade in that sense. Both of those trades may make us better in the short term; unfortunately it's improving us when we're not contenders.

Yes and No. Tommy Hunter still has 2yrs of service time left, he looks like a league average pitcher, and is probably someone we could extend if he proves effective this season. Same goes for Jason Hammel. I think people assume we're going to let these guys walk once their contracts are up. I think we're finally at a point with the level of talent we have that we should be looking to lock up pieces we want on our roster come 2014 (the Bundy/ Machado years). At some point, you need to look to lock up the talent you have, instead of trading that talent for more talent to trade later.

[royalstillman]

It's a Gut feeling.

[Frobby]

Well, at least Guthrie is getting run support. He has a 7.84 ERA and is 1-0. The Rockies have scored 22 runs in his two starts. Last year the Orioles scored 18 runs total in Guthrie's first 9 starts. So, he's exceeded that in 2 games.

[Sports Guy]

Was switching the channels last night and saw Jeremy Guthrie on the mound against the Giants in the 3rd or 4th inning. The score read Rockies 6 and Giants 0. Now Jeremy Guthrie is a standup guy, as far as I know, and I always liked how he carried himself and spoke. BUT, I said to myself, wouldn't it be funny (not haha) if Guthrie didn't take advantage of this run support. I mentioned once before that I always had the feeling that Guthrie pitched just well enough to lose and when he did get some run support that it felt like he would give the runs back. Stats might not support that but it was just a feeling I had.
Well, don't you know, two seconds after watching the game, he gives up back to back homeruns. I switch the channel and come back and see the score is now 6-4 and Guthrie is already being lifted. I'm not sure what my point is exactly, except that people who were down on Hammel and this trade might have to rethink it at some point.

Why? Its the same thing as the Koji trade.

I would have preferred higher ceiling, younger and cheaper players.

Now, we may be fortunate that Lindstrom and Hammel get us those players anyway but we will have to see on that one.

It wasn't really an awful trade in terms of value for value. Its just, what would you have preferred back in the deal?

[Lucky Jim]

Why? Its the same thing as the Koji trade.

I would have preferred higher ceiling, younger and cheaper players.

Now, we may be fortunate that Lindstrom and Hammel get us those players anyway but we will have to see on that one.

It wasn't really an awful trade in terms of value for value. Its just, what would you have preferred back in the deal?

Who wouldn't? Is there any information indicating younger, higher-upside players were available?

[Sports Guy]

Who wouldn't? Is there any information indicating younger, higher-upside players were available?

No..doesn't mean that wasn't the case.

Also doesn't mean it wouldn't have been the case had we held onto Guthrie and waited a little longer.

Angels have said they want another starter.

[RZNJ]

Why? Its the same thing as the Koji trade.

I would have preferred higher ceiling, younger and cheaper players.

Now, we may be fortunate that Lindstrom and Hammel get us those players anyway but we will have to see on that one.

It wasn't really an awful trade in terms of value for value. Its just, what would you have preferred back in the deal?

There were posters who argued it was a bad trade strictly from a value standpoint. That's who I was addressing.

[allstar1579]

There were posters who argued it was a bad trade strictly from a value standpoint. That's who I was addressing.

Two starts does not determine value. Thats like saying Dylan should be in AA after 6 innings.

[Frobby]

Two starts does not determine value. Thats like saying Dylan should be in AA after 6 innings.

Yeah -- we all know that Dylan should be in Baltimore's rotation, not in AA.

[allstar1579]

Yeah -- we all know that Dylan should be in Baltimore's rotation, not in AA.

Well played sir, well played.

[RZNJ]

Two starts does not determine value. Thats like saying Dylan should be in AA after 6 innings.

I'm not sure what my point is exactly, except that people who were down on Hammel and this trade might have to rethink it at some point.


That's what I said. I don't think I"m taking a hard stand here. The opinion is based on what I felt before the trade and not two starts. It's based on Hammels three years in Colorado and Guthrie's last 3 here. The fact that Hammel has looked better than what I expected (his stuff) and Guthrie will be under the same tough conditions that Hammel dealt with in Colorado, just reinforces what I felt. Two starts doesn't mean much, it's true.