Getting attacked and not given the opportunity to respond

[ScottieBaseball]

Ya know...I was going to let sleeping dogs lie, but I see Chris posted on his message board some details about our falling out. However, he left out some relevant details in an attempt to make himself look like the high road-travelling saint in all of this. So I decided to re-open this thread.

Despite what Chris says, there's absolutely NOTHING I did to make things difficult for him as he came on board as the ME here. Yes, I was reluctant to give up the ME job. I really wanted to do the job and do it better, but my family, my new house and the two acres of property it sits on, coaching my son's football team, and my motorcycle were pulling me away. Because he's such a decent, loyal guy, Tony gave me several opportunities to step away from the ME job, and every time I apologized, said I'd devote more time and energy to the site, but it only took a few days for me to lose my motivation again. The last time we had the discussion I still wasn't happy with stepping away, but Tony assured me I'd look back on it and be happy I did it. He was absolutely right, but I digress...

For the record, I was all for Chris coming aboard. I don't know what made him think I balked at it, but I most certainly didn't. At the time I had a lot of respect for the amount of content he was putting out at BSL and was pretty excited at what he was going to now bring to the Hangout.

He was pretty standoffish toward me on Opening Day and it didn't really make sense then. I figured he must just be shy or a man of few words or maybe even the buzz surrounding Opening Day might have him a little nervous. Looking back on it, I don't think he respected me and obviously had some ill feelings for me at that point.

Things blew open between us when I e-mailed Chris after realizing one of our reporters (Adam? Paul? I don't remember who) e-mailed JUST ME (no CC to Tony or anyone else) to tell me he wasn't going to be able to write a recap. As a courtesy, I forwarded it to Chris, trying to look out for him as the new ME. I wasn't trying to tell him what to do, but instead I was trying to look out for him. When he responded, "What are you doing that's so important? Why don't you do it since you don't do anything anyway," I was surprised and definitely a little pissed. Still, I took a deep breath and explained that I meant no offense, I wasn't trying to assert any authority or boss him around, I was merely passing it along as it had been my responsibility when I was ME and I assumed it would be his, too. It fell on deaf ears as he started firing at me about how much I haven't done for the site, my insight and analysis are terrible, how we're clueless as to how to use social media, nobody cares about minor league recaps, Paul's recaps, etc.

I took personal offense to him questioning what I was doing with my free time. I was no longer getting paid and Tony and I had a good understanding as to what his expectations of me were at that point, so it really wasn't anything for him to concern himself with.

The conversation definitely devolved into some personal shots back and forth. It wasn't until after he said "You're an (effing) (d) bag and can go (eff) yourself." that I pointed out his (un)employment status, sponging off his wife, living in a condo. Throughout our exchange, I was trying to drive home four points: A) What I do for the site is between Tony and I, B) what I do with my free time is my business, C) I couldn't expect him to relate to my position considering the polar opposite ends of the spectrum our lives were on, and D) I have zero respect for someone who would initiate such a hostile dialogue from safely behind his keyboard.

I also never threatened to "beat him up" like he said I did. I'm smart enough to know better than to put something like that in writing. I told him I wasn't going to continue the exchange online and that I wanted him to say it to my face.

Of course he came back and apologized for stooping to calling me an (effing) (d)bag, just like he came back and apologized for abusing the PM system. He also laid out pretty much half the story on his site but finished by announcing that he was going to drop the grudge he was holding against me. Does anyone else see the pattern? I sure do, which is why I spoke up about the guy in this thread.

So for those of you who've posted/PM'd/e-mailed me asking why I didn't take the high road (even though this is the 'Rants' section), this is why.

[glorydays]

Tony. I wanted to let you know I am prepared and ready when you give me the ok to go over to the Annonymous and grab that disloyal SOB Maybe2050 and haul is a$$ back over here for a good butt whoop'n. You may have to promise him a moderator job or something more - perhaps part of the O's ad dollars or a lifetime membership... But I think it is worth it.

[Pushmonkey]

I take a couple days off and look what happens~

[TakebackOPACY]

Is this a good place to announce and promote my new Orioles message board, www.oriolesfoxhole.com?

EDITED: Can't remember what thread I'm in.

[Tony-OH]

I will say this about Scott, anyone who has ever met him will tell you the guy is the kind of guy that will give you things straight. He'll look you in the eyes and tell you you were wrong or he was wrong. He's not afraid to admit when he didn't handle things correctly nor was concerned about telling about when he thought I didn't handle something right. This is why I relied on Scott for counsel at times and why he's relied on me. When you run something the size of the Hangout and have to deal with as many people and personalities as we have, you learn a lot about others as well as yourself.

I'm an straight talker, probably to the point of fault. I prefer to tell people exactly how I feel, and that rubs a lot of people wrong. Most people are conditioned to keep things inside and to not just come out and say what they really mean. I'm not like that. I'm the first person to tell someone I respect the hell out of them and to thank them for support, but I'm also the first person to call them out if I don't like what they said. Few people who met me don't know where they stand within a few minutes of me. I'm not some fake ho's going to come over ans shake your hand and act all nice and then talk smack about you behind your back. Personally, I prefer to have people do that as well.

Scott Hoffman has been a loyal friend and staff members for over five years now. I respect him as friend, a father, a husband and a co-worker. I've never known Scott to take things out of context or exaggerate situations or conversations. I was deeply disappointed when I finally heard what Stoner had told him in that conversation. Stoner had told me some similar things so it wasn't a surprise overall, but I didn't know how badly Stoner as bashing how we did things. I took a chance on Stoner because I thought he was what the site needed for content since both Scott and my life were getting very busy. I wanted dearly for the Hangout's content to stay pertinent so i was willing to take a chance, even if I had some reservations about Stoner overall. I made a mistake, pure and simple. I'm normally a great judge of character. I brought in John Domen, Scott, Cary, Shane, Paul, Adam, Mike Miller, Jon Wilt (ok Scott probably gets credit for Mike ) and of course weams (Michael Williams). Some have left for various reasons, mostly lack of time related, but in the end, they were all first class people who I trusted with various parts of the Hangout. They were high quality people and people I'll be eternally grateful for helping me bring you all the Hangout.

I've been touched by the outpouring of support I've received since this whole situation took root a few days ago both publicly and privately. I know the Hangout and especially our amazing community has done a lot for people over the years and I'm aggressively defensive towards any threats. Just like I am to my family and friends, I'm fiercely loyal to the Hangout community and those who consider themselves Hangouters. As many have stated, we are much more than handles on a message board, we are friends who have helped each other through many things. For the most part I'm a private person when it comes to my family or situations within my family, but even I had to use the Hangout's friendship the day I had to put my dog Morty down. See Morty had been with us for 11 years and we spent a lot of special times during walks where he listened to me talk about my problems as we walked down deserted roads in Fort Bragg or in Schofield Barracks. When I had to take him in, I laid on the floor so he could see me, because I wanted him to know I was there for him and I'll never forget how the life drained from his eyes as he was administered the drugs that ended his life.

I was distraught to the point that I could barely stop my eyes for watering the rest of the day. So I went on the Hangout and expressed my situation and the outpouring of support was unbelievable. It was at that moment that I realized the Hangout was more than a place to talk Orioles with Orioles fans, it was a place to share my life with hundreds of friends. Since then, many people have thanked me for providing a place that has helped them through their tough times.

So yes, I get defensive when a I guy I trusted, a guy I got his first press credential for, I guy I brought into run my baby, tells me I don't know what I'm doing. That's he knows better, that guys like Paul and Adam were wasting their time and that my good friend Scott was basically worthless. Then he goes and builds his own message board and then takes my members away by contacting them by using the very free access I gave him to my website even after he quit.

So yes, I get defensive when people know this whole story and still decide they want to be associated with this kind of behavior. Throughout the last few days a few people have told me they had no respect for me, they don't need to show loyalty because they pay me to post, and that they can't wait for the other board to get going so they can quit the Hangout. Well, I'm sorry to those that feel that way, but i rather have less members then people who act and feel that way.

Over the next few days I expect some people will leave because of this. Some will take it wrong and think I'm calling them out because they initially signed up (I'm not) or they will claim they want to post at both. At the end of the day, the vast majority of people will stay and enjoy the Hangout like they always have. More good members will find us and start to post and then realize how much the place means to them and our community will continue to flourish with good people. The Hangout was never built for everybody, it was built for the classy people to be able to discuss the Orioles and much, much more.

I think we accomplished this goal and I thank all of you who help make this the best damn community on the internet.

This is the last I have to say about any of this. For those who wish to go to the other board I wish you well, no hard feelings. For those who decide to stay, let's get back to Hanging Out!

"If you build it they will come"

You guys certainly did!

[ccbird]

I will say this about Scott, anyone who has ever met him will tell you the guy is the kind of guy that will give you things straight. He'll look you in the eyes and tell you you were wrong or he was wrong. He's not afraid to admit when he didn't handle things correctly nor was concerned about telling about when he thought I didn't handle something right. This is why I relied on Scott for counsel at times and why he's relied on me. When you run something the size of the Hangout and have to deal with as many people and personalities as we have, you learn a lot about others as well as yourself.

I'm an straight talker, probably to the point of fault. I prefer to tell people exactly how I feel, and that rubs a lot of people wrong. Most people are conditioned to keep things inside and to not just come out and say what they really mean. I'm not like that. I'm the first person to tell someone I respect the hell out of them and to thank them for support, but I'm also the first person to call them out if I don't like what they said. Few people who met me don't know where they stand within a few minutes of me. I'm not some fake ho's going to come over ans shake your hand and act all nice and then talk smack about you behind your back. Personally, I prefer to have people do that as well.

Scott Hoffman has been a loyal friend and staff members for over five years now. I respect him as friend, a father, a husband and a co-worker. I've never known Scott to take things out of context or exaggerate situations or conversations. I was deeply disappointed when I finally heard what Stoner had told him in that conversation. Stoner had told me some similar things so it wasn't a surprise overall, but I didn't know how badly Stoner as bashing how we did things. I took a chance on Stoner because I thought he was what the site needed for content since both Scott and my life were getting very busy. I wanted dearly for the Hangout's content to stay pertinent so i was willing to take a chance, even if I had some reservations about Stoner overall. I made a mistake, pure and simple. I'm normally a great judge of character. I brought in John Domen, Scott, Cary, Shane, Paul, Adam, Mike Miller, Jon Wilt (ok Scott probably gets credit for Mike ) and of course weams (Michael Williams). Some have left for various reasons, mostly lack of time related, but in the end, they were all first class people who I trusted with various parts of the Hangout. They were high quality people and people I'll be eternally grateful for helping me bring you all the Hangout.

I've been touched by the outpouring of support I've received since this whole situation took root a few days ago both publicly and privately. I know the Hangout and especially our amazing community has done a lot for people over the years and I'm aggressively defensive towards any threats. Just like I am to my family and friends, I'm fiercely loyal to the Hangout community and those who consider themselves Hangouters. As many have stated, we are much more than handles on a message board, we are friends who have helped each other through many things. For the most part I'm a private person when it comes to my family or situations within my family, but even I had to use the Hangout's friendship the day I had to put my dog Morty down. See Morty had been with us for 11 years and we spent a lot of special times during walks where he listened to me talk about my problems as we walked down deserted roads in Fort Bragg or in Schofield Barracks. When I had to take him in, I laid on the floor so he could see me, because I wanted him to know I was there for him and I'll never forget how the life drained from his eyes as he was administered the drugs that ended his life.

I was distraught to the point that I could barely stop my eyes for watering the rest of the day. So I went on the Hangout and expressed my situation and the outpouring of support was unbelievable. It was at that moment that I realized the Hangout was more than a place to talk Orioles with Orioles fans, it was a place to share my life with hundreds of friends. Since then, many people have thanked me for providing a place that has helped them through their tough times.

So yes, I get defensive when a I guy I trusted, a guy I got his first press credential for, I guy I brought into run my baby, tells me I don't know what I'm doing. That's he knows better, that guys like Paul and Adam were wasting their time and that my good friend Scott was basically worthless. Then he goes and builds his own message board and then takes my members away by contacting them by using the very free access I gave him to my website even after he quit.

So yes, I get defensive when people know this whole story and still decide they want to be associated with this kind of behavior. Throughout the last few days a few people have told me they had no respect for me, they don't need to show loyalty because they pay me to post, and that they can't wait for the other board to get going so they can quit the Hangout. Well, I'm sorry to those that feel that way, but i rather have less members then people who act and feel that way.

Over the next few days I expect some people will leave because of this. Some will take it wrong and think I'm calling them out because they initially signed up (I'm not) or they will claim they want to post at both. At the end of the day, the vast majority of people will stay and enjoy the Hangout like they always have. More good members will find us and start to post and then realize how much the place means to them and our community will continue to flourish with good people. The Hangout was never built for everybody, it was built for the classy people to be able to discuss the Orioles and much, much more.

I think we accomplished this goal and I thank all of you who help make this the best damn community on the internet.

This is the last I have to say about any of this. For those who wish to go to the other board I wish you well, no hard feelings. For those who decide to stay, let's get back to Hanging Out!

"If you build it they will come"

You guys certainly did!

Tony, I've sat back and basically watched all this stuff go down for the last few days. Honestly, I wish all this tit for tat stuff would just end already. The one thing I've learned is that when there is a disagreement between two parties you're always going to have two very different sides to the story. I've never met you or Chris in person but my gut feeling based on nothing but interacting with you both on here or other message boards( I remember talking Terps basketball with Chris on a MD board back in the late '90s) is that you are both good people at your core. I got to say though that watching all of this go down has left a sour taste in my mouth. I know for a fact that some people are sitting back and enjoying this "message board war" unfold but it's very disappointing to me that it came to all of this. To be quite blunt, I see two well respected Baltimore media members making fools of themselves going back and forth at each other.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Wow, if I didn't check out the rants section for some unknown reason, I'd have never seen this.

[Dipper9]

This is where I start to take exception with this whole discussion. While I agree with your premise and think that a man ought to be able to act the way he wants in his own castle, the same man can look like a jerk if he holds his guests to higher standards than the ones to which he holds himself. For instance, if I tell you to take your shoes off when you walk through the front door, I look like a jerk if I have my muddy work boots on. That my be my perogative, but that doesn't mean I'm not coming off as a jerk. If I get on your case about using a coaster on my nice coffee table, there better be a coaster under my frosty glass too.

I totally understand how much time and effort has gone into this website. I totally understand everyone's feelings and why all parties are so defensive of their projects (their passion, really). That's not in question, IMO. But if you're going to establish a code of conduct for the community, make it one of the top MOs of the community to enforce said code of conduct, but fail to abide by the code of conduct that you've established, that's not setting a strong example for the rest of the community.

I hear ya, but that's not what I meant in my post. What I meant was, I saw it as Scottie telling people that Stoner wasn't such the good guy that some people thought.

For instance, if you start dating this super hot chick, and your friends are all telling you how great she is, but I know that she's been in the porn industry for 10 years, I would think that was information I would share with you, even if the topic at hand wasn't directly related to that info.

[allstar1579]

I thought we were done talking about this? I honored that and even let you have the last word in our back and forth and then a couple posts later you're putting words in my mouth I never said to make you look like more of a victim again?

Can we really just be done this time please?

[ScottieBaseball]

I thought we were done talking about this? I honored that and even let you have the last word in our back and forth and then a couple posts later you're putting words in my mouth I never said to make you look like more of a victim again?

Can we really just be done this time please?

I re-opened the thread, Justin. It had nothing to do with you.

[allstar1579]

I re-opened the thread, Justin. It had nothing to do with you.

Oh no, I get the reopening thing, I just meant the line about "can't wait until the other place picked up so I could leave" because that's not what I said. That's all.

And it's Jeremy.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Oh no, I get the reopening thing, I just meant the line about "can't wait until the other place picked up so I could leave" because that's not what I said. That's all.

And it's Jeremy.

He probably meant me. I'm on record that if the majority of the best posters here went over there, I'd go over there too.

[glorydays]

We all are fans and not just casual fans... but fanatics. Our lives revolve around our family and Oriole baseball. We have put up with years of losing and - for one reason or another - still love this team. We are mentally, physically and spiritually invested in this team.

We are also guys. We value relationships, but we are programmed for battle. Whether it is in an office or on the field, we love to compete. We don't get our feelings hurt when someone forgets an anniversary date or say "I love you", but when we feel like someone doesn't respect us or something we believe in. And while we may pretend that we don't need to be accepted by others - I think if we were honest we would say that is a primary driving factor of why we do what we do.

We also say and do and say things we oftentimes regret. And that IMO is what this is all about... respect, battle and regret.

So the question is this... in the heat of battle, will we find a way to treat everyone with respect so that we don't end up regretting what was said? Today you may be able to live with what you wrote - but what about tomorrow, a week or a year from now? Would your child be proud of you if 10 years from now he/she comes across one of your posts where you are attacking another person? Would you want them to treat another the same way?

I struggle with this so I am pointing a finger at no one but myself.

[ScottieBaseball]

Oh no, I get the reopening thing, I just meant the line about "can't wait until the other place picked up so I could leave" because that's not what I said. That's all.

And it's Jeremy.

Sorry Jason.

[allstar1579]

Sorry Jason.

Haha...nice.