Jones jokes he'd slap Palmer around.

[lint06]

I saw this and thought we'd all like to read it: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...palmer-around/ Apologies if it has been posted.

[section18]

Jones jokes is the key to this statement. Jim Palmer in his prime would probably K him 3 or 4 times every game. I was at Tuesday night's game when AJ came to the plate with the bases loaded and none out and on a 2-0 pitch grounded into a double play hitting the pitchers pitch and basically ruining the chance for a big inning. He goes into the dugout thoroughly pi..ed. He comes up a few innings later with a runner on and grounds out again.......hitting the pitchers pitch inducing a ground ball. Coming back into the dugout he rips his batting gloves off and tosses them onto the roof of the Orioles dugout. I said to the people sitting around me he is too aggressive at the plate with runners on base. We see it over and over again. I said it the other day on here. How can you have 5 HR's and only 8 RBI's and over.300 BA batting 4th? Because he hits better with nobody on base. 11 or 12 million a year? No! I think the story in the Baltinmore Sun probably didn't help on Tuesday. He was trying too hard Tuesday night. He comes up I think in the sixth inning and I said to the people around me nobody on base I bet he gets a hit .....and sure enough he gets a hit. The guy in front of me says you were right. He is a different hitter with nobody on base. Better batting 2nd or leadoff? Tonight he delivered in the 8th with a double to knock in Markakis. RBI #9. Good job! Slow down AJ.....slow down. I still think he should toss the gum. You can see the aggression the way he chews his gum. It's like he hasn't eaten in a week. I know I'll get ripped for saying this but it's the way he appears close up. You don't see it on TV. Do I like him? Yes! Can he improve? Yes! Will he sign a 5 year contract with the Orioles? Only if they keep winning and PA tells DD to sign him and........SHOWS HIM THE MONEY. I think he wants the bright lights and the big city. I hope I'm wrong and he fine tunes his game and stays as he helps us get back to winning seasons again and the playoffs. As someone said last week. When he tries to hit a HR he only has to hit it to Eutaw Street not to San Diego.

[Barnaby Graves]

Jones jokes is the key to this statement. Jim Palmer in his prime would probably K him 3 or 4 times every game. I was at Tuesday night's game when AJ came to the plate with the bases loaded and none out and on a 2-0 pitch grounded into a double play hitting the pitchers pitch and basically ruining the chance for a big inning. He goes into the dugout thoroughly pi..ed. He comes up a few innings later with a runner on and grounds out again.......hitting the pitchers pitch inducing a ground ball. Coming back into the dugout he rips his batting gloves off and tosses them onto the roof of the Orioles dugout. I said to the people sitting around me he is too aggressive at the plate with runners on base. We see it over and over again. I said it the other day on here. How can you have 5 HR's and only 8 RBI's and over.300 BA batting 4th? Because he hits better with nobody on base. 11 or 12 million a year? No! I think the story in the Baltinmore Sun probably didn't help on Tuesday. He was trying too hard Tuesday night. He comes up I think in the sixth inning and I said to the people around me nobody on base I bet he gets a hit .....and sure enough he gets a hit. The guy in front of me says you were right. He is a different hitter with nobody on base. Better batting 2nd or leadoff? Tonight he delivered in the 8th with a double to knock in Markakis. RBI #9. Good job! Slow down AJ.....slow down. I still think he should toss the gum. You can see the aggression the way he chews his gum. It's like he hasn't eaten in a week. I know I'll get ripped for saying this but it's the way he appears close up. You don't see it on TV. Do I like him? Yes! Can he improve? Yes! Will he sign a 5 year contract with the Orioles? Only if they keep winning and PA tells DD to sign him and........SHOWS HIM THE MONEY. I think he wants the bright lights and the big city. I hope I'm wrong and he fine tunes his game and stays as he helps us get back to winning seasons again and the playoffs. As someone said last week. When he tries to hit a HR he only has to hit it to Eutaw Street not to San Diego.

DE-CAF *clap clap* DE-CAF *clap clap*

[Gurgi]

Palmer is one of the cockiest and intelligent pitchers of his generation. He likely would of got Jones to chase the ball up in the zone. Start out high and go higher and higher. It looks so good but you cant seem to catch up with it.

But Jones is getting better. NO doubt about that.

[crissfan172]

Jones jokes is the key to this statement. Jim Palmer in his prime would probably K him 3 or 4 times every game. I was at Tuesday night's game when AJ came to the plate with the bases loaded and none out and on a 2-0 pitch grounded into a double play hitting the pitchers pitch and basically ruining the chance for a big inning. He goes into the dugout thoroughly pi..ed. He comes up a few innings later with a runner on and grounds out again.......hitting the pitchers pitch inducing a ground ball. Coming back into the dugout he rips his batting gloves off and tosses them onto the roof of the Orioles dugout. I said to the people sitting around me he is too aggressive at the plate with runners on base. We see it over and over again. I said it the other day on here. How can you have 5 HR's and only 8 RBI's and over.300 BA batting 4th? Because he hits better with nobody on base. 11 or 12 million a year? No! I think the story in the Baltinmore Sun probably didn't help on Tuesday. He was trying too hard Tuesday night. He comes up I think in the sixth inning and I said to the people around me nobody on base I bet he gets a hit .....and sure enough he gets a hit. The guy in front of me says you were right. He is a different hitter with nobody on base. Better batting 2nd or leadoff? Tonight he delivered in the 8th with a double to knock in Markakis. RBI #9. Good job! Slow down AJ.....slow down. I still think he should toss the gum. You can see the aggression the way he chews his gum. It's like he hasn't eaten in a week. I know I'll get ripped for saying this but it's the way he appears close up. You don't see it on TV. Do I like him? Yes! Can he improve? Yes! Will he sign a 5 year contract with the Orioles? Only if they keep winning and PA tells DD to sign him and........SHOWS HIM THE MONEY. I think he wants the bright lights and the big city. I hope I'm wrong and he fine tunes his game and stays as he helps us get back to winning seasons again and the playoffs. As someone said last week. When he tries to hit a HR he only has to hit it to Eutaw Street not to San Diego.

If by "a pitcher's pitch" you mean a fastball right down the middle, then yeah...

[ScottP]

Jim Palmer would have adjusted to whatever strike zone the umps were calling; he preaches the importance of locating the fastball because he could locate his fastball wherever he wanted it to go. I know Jones was just joking around but if he did face Cakes in his prime, he'd never see anything above his knees (unless Palmer wanted it up) and he'd go fishing for that curve so often he'd be better off bring a net to the plate than a bat.

[SilentJames]

Palmer was one of he best of all time, but these debates are largely moot. Historians love to have the theoretical "what if the south won" debates and this is basically it.

The question is this: Was Palmer such a unique player that he translates across the generations, or was he the first of a new type of player: dominant in his time but now that there have been dozens of "lesser-Palmer-type-pitchers" has the league in general adjusted to his style? Has the game changed so much that he would not be himself today?

Its more a discussion on the evolution of the league, not Palmer's talent.

[Moose Milligan]

Palmer was one of he best of all time, but these debates are largely moot. Historians love to have the theoretical "what if the south won" debates and this is basically it.

The question is this: Was Palmer such a unique player that he translates across the generations, or was he the first of a new type of player: dominant in his time but now that there have been dozens of "lesser-Palmer-type-pitchers" has the league in general adjusted to his style? Has the game changed so much that he would not be himself today?

Its more a discussion on the evolution of the league, not Palmer's talent.

I love Diamond Jim as much as anyone but I really wonder how much his defense helped him out. I know there's a whips/dips/chips stat for that somewhere.

[Can_of_corn]

I love Diamond Jim as much as anyone but I really wonder how much his defense helped him out. I know there's a whips/dips/chips stat for that somewhere.

I have seen a piece that made the argument. However it also showed that his K rate went up and opponents OPS went down a significant amount in high leverage situations. It does appear that Palmer would actually "pitch to contact" which isn't a bad idea considering the defense he had behind him. He would then ramp in up when needed.

[Jimbo81]

Do we know what Palmers avg. Fast ball speed was?

[Gurgi]

Do we know what Palmers avg. Fast ball speed was?

Radar guns were just coming on line when Palmer likely had his best stuff but Reggie Jackson is quoted as saying it was high nineties.

http://books.google.com/books?id=7Ff...0Neyer&f=false

[brianod]

I play a historical baseball simulation game where they normalize performance between different eras. Normalization is done by diamond mind and the site is imaginesports.com if you are interested in that type of thing. Anyway, Palmer performs very well in that game but is not elite. Based on era alone (which doesn't tell the whole story of a pitchers worth but is a good enough summary stat) Pedro = 2.53, RJohnson = 2.64, Grove = 2.7 Koufax 3.03 Blyleven 3.17 Gibson 3.23 R. Roberts 3.31 and Palmer 3.32.

Other O's of note - McGregor 3.48, McNally 3.69, Cuellar 3.60 and Moose 3.04

[andrewochs615]

If you saw this interview you could eaisly tell Jones was joking around. You could also tell that he knows his weaknesses and really is trying to improve.

[Gurgi]

That seems kinda right.

[Gurgi]

http://www.lonestarball.com/2011/4/8...er-of-all-time

Not by a long shot.

Clemens was overrated. He usually choked in the big games. Like Tyson biting ears.