Adam Jones - For Real or Overrated?

[AgentOrange]

I think in Adam's prime, he could be a 5-6 WAR player. Considering Wieters can be the same level, maybe higher, I am not sure why we wouldn't lock both of these guys up long term.

The time is now, the place is now.

[JohnnyK27]

He has had 22 ABs with RISP. Let it go bro

Just stating the facts my friend!

[AgentOrange]

Just stating the facts my friend!

You are clearly bias, and you looked terrible in the last thread. You keep grasping and its rather funny. You know all too well 22 ABs is nothing to make assumptions on.

[larrytt]

You are clearly bias, and you looked terrible in the last thread. You keep grasping and its rather funny. You know all too well 22 ABs is nothing to make assumptions on.

And he hasn't exactly been a disaster in those 22 Ab with RISP, hitting .273 with an OPS of .759. For perspective on how few AB these 22 are, if you add one scratch single to his RISP stats, suddenly he's hitting .318, OBP .348, SLG .500, and OPS .848. Add two scratch singles, and his OPS shoots up .936. If you skip the scratch singles and just add one swing of the bat for a HR, his SLG goes to .636 and his OPS to .954.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

And he hasn't exactly been a disaster in those 22 Ab with RISP, hitting .273 with an OPS of .759. For perspective on how few AB these 22 are, if you add one scratch single to his RISP stats, suddenly he's hitting .318, OBP .348, SLG .500, and OPS .848. Add two scratch singles, and his OPS shoots up .936. If you skip the scratch singles and just add one swing of the bat for a HR, his SLG goes to .636 and his OPS to .954.

Good point, but where's the anagram?

[wpetraska]

I know someone here mentioned that Buck saw Adam's emotion as a problem but that's what I like about him. He's not the type to strikeout and say to himself "Welp, better luck next time". In the last Yankees games, ESPN showed him after his at-bats (all of which were outs that could have scored runs) and he was straight up screaming at himself. I'd rather have that.

Jones should stay methinks. He has some horrible at-bats that are hard to watch but he's great defensively. Plus I believe that he is genuinely invested in the Orioles at this point.

[eastonguy]

Trade everybody. You would think us winning would stop these threads.

[Frobby]

Trade everybody. You would think us winning would stop these threads.

If the winning continues, trading him won't even be a topic come July.

Jones is off to a very good start but I don't see a markedly different player than I saw last year. Jones had stretches of 25 games where he played very well last year, and the year before that, and the year before that. So, I don't know if this a just a hot streak that happened to occur at the start of the year, or something he can build on for 162 games. I hope it's the latter, but I'm not sold yet.

[larrytt]

Good point, but where's the anagram?

I don't want to waste a perfectly good anagram of Adam Jones here that I might desperately need later in a Top Ten list! That could leave me with One Sad Jam.

[mcinww0]

What evidence do you have of this besides a poll of people who haven't seen both of them play enough to have a meaningfull opinion. The same poll probably rated Jeter as one of the best defensive SS a well. Bourjos is two years younger than Jones.

Bourjos is a year and a half younger, but thats not what i meant. Jones was in AA at age 19, Bourjos didnt get there until he was 22. Jones was also rated a top 100 prospect by BA, which means at least something regarding potential. Jeter was not rated a top-3 defensive SS in this poll. Let me guess, you have seen enough of them play to have a meaningful opinion? Between those managers they've seen Bourjos play about 90% of his major league game.

And not to mention, they're major league managers and regularly evaluate baseball talent, and you and I are internet chat board contributors. But sure, keep convincing yourself that every player not on the Orioles is better than every player on the orioles. Keep convincing yourself that there's not even close to enough talent on the team to compete.

[Lucky Jim]

Bourjos is a year and a half younger, but thats not what i meant. Jones was in AA at age 19, Bourjos didnt get there until he was 22. Jones was also rated a top 100 prospect by BA, which means at least something regarding potential. Jeter was not rated a top-3 defensive SS in this poll. Let me guess, you have seen enough of them play to have a meaningful opinion? Between those managers they've seen Bourjos play about 90% of his major league game.

And not to mention, they're major league managers and regularly evaluate baseball talent, and you and I are internet chat board contributors. But sure, keep convincing yourself that every player not on the Orioles is better than every player on the orioles. Keep convincing yourself that there's not even close to enough talent on the team to compete.

Loathe as I am to admit it, Gordo is right here. I think Jones is better than his UZR, but Bourjos is clearly better as a defender. And manager polls aren't value-less, but they're problematized by their very design.

[backwardsk]

Can anyone cite any plays in the first 25 games where Jones' defense hurt the team? Whether it was a landed ball that should have been cut or a throw to a wrong base? I haven't seen all of the games, but there wasn't a time where I thought, "wow. Jones really misplayed that."

I'm not opposed to trading him if we are blown away. But I haven't seen anything tempting. The angels deal here, no. JJ and Prado, no.

[El Gordo]

Bourjos is a year and a half younger, but thats not what i meant. Jones was in AA at age 19, Bourjos didnt get there until he was 22. Jones was also rated a top 100 prospect by BA, which means at least something regarding potential. Jeter was not rated a top-3 defensive SS in this poll. Let me guess, you have seen enough of them play to have a meaningful opinion? Between those managers they've seen Bourjos play about 90% of his major league game.

And not to mention, they're major league managers and regularly evaluate baseball talent, and you and I are internet chat board contributors. But sure, keep convincing yourself that every player not on the Orioles is better than every player on the orioles. Keep convincing yourself that there's not even close to enough talent on the team to compete.

This idiotic remark reflects the bias in your thinking. I am making a comparison between Jones' an Bourjos' defensive skills based on the three defensive metrics available to me. I accept them as basically accurate, particularly when they are in close agreement, as they are with Jones vs Bourjos. I am not arguing that Bourjos is a better player than Jones, I'm saying that they are close to a wash, given the difference in defense, and that a trade that would bring in Callaspo, Bourjos, plus a good MiL SP prospect would be an improvement over what we have now.

[JohnnyK27]

You are clearly bias, and you looked terrible in the last thread. You keep grasping and its rather funny. You know all too well 22 ABs is nothing to make assumptions on.

Terrible ...If you state the facts certain posters here "The Homers" cant handle the truth. Adam Jones IS NOT a Star type player. He is the Orioles clean up hitter by default as they really didnt have another option at this point. On other teams he'd probably be in the 6-7 slot in the order. The Orioles have played 25 games so far this season. And he is a way better hitter with nobody on base. Perhaps he is better suited to bat leadoff. I dont know but Im using the facts rather than taking a stab.

Here are the stats

By Situation AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
None On 52 5 21 3 1 5 5 4 2 7 0 0 .404 .466 .788 1.254
Runners On 46 14 10 3 0 1 7 0 1 7 4 3 .217 .234 .348 .582
Scoring Position 22 11 6 1 0 1 6 0 1 5 2 1 .273 .304 .455 .759
Bases Loaded 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
Lead Off Inning 26 2 10 2 0 2 2 2 0 2 0 0 .385 .429 .692 1.121
Scoring Posn, 2 out 9 2 2 0 0 1 3 0 0 2 1 0 .222 .222 .556 .778


He has been a far better hitter with nobody on base. Not stats that bode well for a cleanup hitter. Sample size ...Ok were almost a 6th of the way into the season. 5 of his 6 Homeruns have come with the bases empty.

Im not saying Jones is not a good baseball player. Im saying he's not a star, and possibly not be used correctly (even if by necessity)

[Nigel Tufnel]

Terrible ...If you state the facts certain posters here "The Homers" cant handle the truth. Adam Jones IS NOT a Star type player. He is the Orioles clean up hitter by default as they really didnt have another option at this point. On other teams he'd probably be in the 6-7 slot in the order. The Orioles have played 25 games so far this season. And he is a way better hitter with nobody on base. Perhaps he is better suited to bat leadoff. I dont know but Im using the facts rather than taking a stab.

Here are the stats

By Situation AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
None On 52 5 21 3 1 5 5 4 2 7 0 0 .404 .466 .788 1.254
Runners On 46 14 10 3 0 1 7 0 1 7 4 3 .217 .234 .348 .582
Scoring Position 22 11 6 1 0 1 6 0 1 5 2 1 .273 .304 .455 .759
Bases Loaded 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
Lead Off Inning 26 2 10 2 0 2 2 2 0 2 0 0 .385 .429 .692 1.121
Scoring Posn, 2 out 9 2 2 0 0 1 3 0 0 2 1 0 .222 .222 .556 .778


He has been a far better hitter with nobody on base. Not stats that bode well for a cleanup hitter. Sample size ...Ok were almost a 6th of the way into the season.

Im not saying Jones is not a good baseball player. Im saying he's not a star, and possibly not be used correctly (even if by necessity)

SSS. A thousand times, SSS.