Jeter

**crissfan172** · 05-04-2012 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by CA-ORIOLE

With just average defense, he'd have had a pretty good case as one of the best shortstops to ever play the game. The "mostly singles hitter" is just nonsense. He has been a far better hitter/offensive player than Cal over his career. A great part of his legacy will be just how bad of a fielder he really was.

Well that's just not true. Jeter has him in OPS (.834 to .788), but that's really misleading. Ripken had a similar BB% and a slightly lower K%, even though he was much more of a power hitter than Jeter (.172 ISO to Jeter's .122). The ONLY thing that Jeter did better as a hitter than Cal was hit for average (.314 to .276). You could definitely make the argument that he was a better hitter, but to say "far better" is a stretch, especially when you consider that Cal played half of his career (including his prime) in a pitcher's park, while Jeter played his entire career in two stadiums that were built for his style of hitting.

**SammyBirdland** · 05-04-2012 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Feinbird

I feel the same way. I have a theory about his hot start. Call me crazy, but the guy is single for the first time in a couple of years...

characters

**Dipper9** · 05-04-2012 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Roy Firestone

I know most of you on here hate him, or just love to hate him, but after last night's
4 for 5 performance at the plate,he is hitting .404 and in the last 10 games he is
hitting .439.His OPS is 1.038 and OBP is .441.He has 13 RBI's as a leadoff hitter.
He has also been brilliant in the field lately.This from a guy who is nearing his 38th
birthday. Say what you want about him. This is some kind of baseball player.

I agree. Its hard for me to root FOR a Yankee, but I don't get the extreme hatred that most have for him. He's a great player, sure HOFamer, and from what I can remember, has always been a classy guy. (cue people finding every single example of this not being true)

**SrMeowMeow** · 05-04-2012 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Pedro Cerrano

Derek Jeter is the single most overrated player in my lifetime.

He'd be a fringey-HOF if he spent his career in Kansas City or Oakland*

*Just my opinion(s)

You realize Jeter to this point in his career has outhit Ripken, right? He'll probably retire with the fourth highest WAR total of all shortstops in the history of baseball?

**CA-ORIOLE** · 05-04-2012 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by crissfan172

Well that's just not true. Jeter has him in OPS (.834 to .788), but that's really misleading. Ripken had a similar BB% and a slightly lower K%, even though he was much more of a power hitter than Jeter (.172 ISO to Jeter's .122). The ONLY thing that Jeter did better as a hitter than Cal was hit for average (.314 to .276). You could definitely make the argument that he was a better hitter, but to say "far better" is a stretch, especially when you consider that Cal played half of his career (including his prime) in a pitcher's park, while Jeter played his entire career in two stadiums that were built for his style of hitting.

When you look at wRC+ (park adjusted) it's not even that close. Jeter wins pretty easily. Then you get into base running and Ripken's case gets even worse. Jeter was a better offensive player overall. I'm guessing we may be talking at least 10% better in terms of runs created.

**VeveJones007** · 05-04-2012 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by SrMeowMeow

You realize Jeter to this point in his career has outhit Ripken, right? He'll probably retire with the fourth highest WAR total of all shortstops in the history of baseball?

Yeah, he'll probably get to 4th (Fangraphs has him at 76 and George Davis is in 4th at 86). I doubt he'll get to Cal (100), though. That's really remarkable when you think about it. Cal averaged 5 WAR throughout his career. Wow.

**Lucky Jim** · 05-04-2012 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by VeveJones007

Yeah, he'll probably get to 4th (Fangraphs has him at 76 and George Davis is in 4th at 86). I doubt he'll get to Cal (100), though. That's really remarkable when you think about it. Cal averaged 5 WAR throughout his career. Wow.

How many years does he have? He's averaging 2.5 WAR his last two years.

**Pedro Cerrano** · 05-04-2012 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by SrMeowMeow

You realize Jeter to this point in his career has outhit Ripken, right? He'll probably retire with the fourth highest WAR total of all shortstops in the history of baseball?

How much has the teams he's played on helped his WAR?

**SrMeowMeow** · 05-04-2012 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Pedro Cerrano

How much has the teams he's played on helped his WAR?

Infinitely less than his WAR has helped the teams he's played on.

**Pedro Cerrano** · 05-04-2012 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by SrMeowMeow

Infinitely less than his WAR has helped the teams he's played on.

That's not what I asked, really.

**VeveJones007** · 05-04-2012 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky Jim

How many years does he have? He's averaging 2.5 WAR his last two years.

His contract is through 2015. If he stays somewhat healthy, I bet he gets 10 WAR over these four seasons.

**crissfan172** · 05-04-2012 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by CA-ORIOLE

When you look at wRC+ (park adjusted) it's not even that close. Jeter wins pretty easily. Then you get into base running and Ripken's case gets even worse. Jeter was a better offensive player overall. I'm guessing we may be talking at least 10% better in terms of runs created.

Yes...as I said, he is a better hitter, but wRC+ takes into account the park they were played in, but it doesn't take into account the style of hitter that is playing there. For example, Ted Williams and Wade Boggs would both have their stats adjusted the same way (if they played in the same era obviously), but it wouldn't tell the whole story. Williams was great in spite of the park he played in because he was a pull hitter, while Boggs benefitted greatly from the green monster. The fact that Yankee Stadium is a hitter's park is reflected in wRC+, but what doesn't show up is the fact that Jeter probably took advantage of the short porch in RF more than the average player. I'm not arguing that Ripken was a better hitter than Jeter, just that it's probably closer than the stats indicate.

**Moose Milligan** · 05-04-2012 02:50 PM

How does someone overrate 3,000 hits?

Wait, I know: Playing for the Yankees.

**Frobby** · 05-04-2012 02:55 PM

I will say this about Jeter -- every time I think he's finally hit the wall, he bounces back. When he went from .900 to .840 to .770 from 2006-08, I was expecting him to be done in '09 at age 35, and instead he posted a .871 season. Then after a .710 2010 and .619 at late as May 24 last year, I was sure he was washed up. Instead he posted an .810 OPS over the last 86 games of last year and here he is in 2012 hitting ..400. The guy has more lives than a cat, dammit!

I'm sure his numbers will come down to earth at some point, but he's almost surely going to post above average offensive numbers for a SS, at age 38. Drive a stake in him, already!

**ledzepp8** · 05-04-2012 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by ca-oriole

with just average defense, he'd have had a pretty good case as one of the best shortstops to ever play the game. The "mostly singles hitter" is just nonsense. he has been a far better hitter/offensive player than cal over his career. a great part of his legacy will be just how bad of a fielder he really was.

hahahahahaha

Thread: Jeter

Thread Tools

Display

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions