The Case Against MacPhail

[statman]

Yes, he brought us Jones and Tillman.
Yes, he brought us Tommy Hunter and Chris Davis.
Yes, he even brought us Luke Scott.

But, at the end of the day, Andy MacPhail's ultimate strategy failed. "Grow the arms and buy the bats" didn't work. There are currently 13 Pitchers on the O's big league roster and only 5 (Arrieta, Johnson, Matusz, Berken, and Patton (kinda)) are "home grown"...Certainly a far cry from the Rays/Giants mentality that I envisioned bringing us to the promised land of competition.

...yet here we are, like an Oil Driller that inadvertently tunneled into a gold mine, with the best record in baseball...

So how much can we really attribute our success to AM? Sure he brought us some nice pieces...but it strays from his ultimate plan. So, which is it? Planned success? or accidental success?

[Araqnid]

My opinion is that he was a helpful piece along the way to contention. He was the GM that we needed to get us started on our path to rebuilding. I think a lot of the opinion of the OH at the time he left was that he was good, but it was time to go in a new direction because the ascent of the team stalled.

That said, the case that he grew the arms is certainly not over. Not with Britton, Bundy (x2), potentially Tillman, and so many others still advancing through the minors or there for rehab.

MacPhail didn't fail, but he needed to leave for us to continue the rebuild, if that makes any sense.

[weams]

LOLZ!

[Napoleon Solo]

What pitcher from our starting rotation was a big FA signing?
There was nothing wrong with the mantra but the cavalry just never arrived with a bang. At the end of the day our rotation is more valuable due to the salaries.
MacPhail deserves a lot of credit for our roster.

[mcinww0]

We still have decent minor league pitching talent and while arrieta and matusz are the only home grown guys in the rotation, they're also the two guys who I would expect to still be in the rotation in 5 years. In 2 years if our starting rotation is sill 3/5 "newcomers" than Macphail will have failed.

[El Gordo]

For better or for worse we can thank AM for Bundy, Machado, Schoop, Hoes, Avery,Tillman, Arrieta, Britton, Matusz, Wieters, Jones, Patton, Strop, Hunter, Hardy, Reynolds, Markakis and BRob's extensions, among other things. Why ?

[flashjordnk]

Are you trolling Andy MacPhail?

[statman]

For better or for worse we can thank AM for Bundy, Machado, Schoop, Hoes, Avery,Tillman, Arrieta, Britton, Matusz, Wieters, Jones, Patton, Strop, Hunter, Hardy, Reynolds, Markakis and BRob's extensions, among other things. Why ?

I'm beating the dead horse because had AM said "We're just going to stockpile talent for a bit and see what happens..." then yes, AM's plan worked. Stockpiling talent is a no-brainer. However, hey came out several times publicly and regaled us with his over-arching plan for success: "Grow the arms, but the bats", "Grow the arms, buy the bats", "Grow the arms, buy the bats"...

You can't look me in the eye and say that plan worked...Less than 50% of our big league pitchers can be considered "grown"...We traded for other people's pitchers, a stark contrast from what AM advocated and a strategy that I don't think he would have condoned. AM wouldn't have traded Guthrie for Hammel and Lindstrom because be believed that Guthrie was cultivated to pitch in the AL East...He probably wouldn't have signed Chen either because that, too, would have gone against his plan...

If the CEO of my company kept preaching a particular strategy for corporate growth, and other factors led to a significant profit margin over last year's gains, how much credit would you give that CEO? He/She didn't have the right strategy!

AM brought us some talent...there's no doubt about it...But, his approach was all wrong.

[Lucky Jim]

I'm beating the dead horse because had AM said "We're just going to stockpile talent for a bit and see what happens..." then yes, AM's plan worked. Stockpiling talent is a no-brainer. However, hey came out several times publicly and regaled us with his over-arching plan for success: "Grow the arms, but the bats", "Grow the arms, buy the bats", "Grow the arms, buy the bats"...

You can't look me in the eye and say that plan worked...Less than 50% of our big league pitchers can be considered "grown"...We traded for other people's pitchers, a stark contrast from what AM advocated and a strategy that I don't think he would have condoned. AM wouldn't have traded Guthrie for Hammel and Lindstrom because be believed that Guthrie was cultivated to pitch in the AL East...He probably wouldn't have signed Chen either because that, too, would have gone against his plan...

If the CEO of my company kept preaching a particular plan for corporate growth, and other factors led to a significant profit margin over last year's gains, how much credit would you give that CEO? He/She didn't have the right strategy!

AM brought us some talent...there's no doubt about it...But, his approach was all wrong.

I'm not sure MacPhail said "we're only going to grow arms and only going to buy bats." To hold him to this as if it's fixed and non-negotiable is silly. At best.

[flashjordnk]

AM brought us some talent...there's no doubt about it...But, his approach was all wrong.

Wait let me guess you think Angelos is a bad owner too. I mean...at this juncture, what is the point of this thread? AM didn't take us where we want to go. Ought we get to bashing Syd Thrift now too?

[statman]

I'm not sure MacPhail said "we're only going to grow arms and only going to buy bats." To hold him to this as if it's fixed and non-negotiable is silly. At best.

If you followed the Orioles over AM's tenure, you realize that the man walked his talk...We made no significant free agent pitcher signings...even guys that could have been had like Randy Wolf or Jon Garland were looked over...all because of "The Strategy"...He purposefully gave big contracts to relievers and signed bottom-of-the-barrel starters like Adam Eaton...all in an effort to essentially WAIT for the cavalry to arrive. It was a noble effort, and in theory, a good strategy if it worked out as it did for the Rays...

but at the end of the day, our early success is on the shoulders of guys like Hammel, Lindstrom, Strop, Chen, O'Day, and Ayala...none of which are true Orioles...am I the only one that sees this??

[statman]

Wait let me guess you think Angelos is a bad owner too. I mean...at this juncture, what is the point of this thread? AM didn't take us where we want to go. Ought we get to bashing Syd Thrift now too?

The POINT of this thread, lest I make another bad analogy...is that AM's PLAN failed...Every GM stockpiles talent...but his over-arching PLAN did not work...making it seem as if our success is accidental with respect to AM.

[Lucky Jim]

If you followed the Orioles over AM's tenure, you realize that the man walked his talk...We made no significant free agent pitcher signings...even guys that could have been had like Randy Wolf or Jon Garland were looked over...all because of "The Strategy"...He purposefully gave big contracts to relievers and signed bottom-of-the-barrel starters like Adam Eaton...all in an effort to essentially WAIT for the cavalry to arrive. It was a noble effort, and in theory, a good strategy if it worked out as it did for the Rays...

but at the end of the day, our early success is on the shoulders of guys like Hammel, Lindstrom, Strop, Chen, O'Day, and Ayala...none of which are true Orioles...am I the only one that sees this??

Yes. Probably.

[crawjo]

We can't even say that we are contenders now. It's May 7 for crying out loud.

[statman]

Yes. Probably.

So let's say that your "plan" for achieving financial security is to invest in gold...Yet, 10 years down the line, the price of gold plummets...however, they discover oil under your lot and pay you $100 Million dollars to relocate...was YOUR plan successful? Even though the outcome was favorable...your strategy for arriving at that outcome was not the contributing factor...it's the same idea...