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  1. #1
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    McPhail quote that gives some insight?

    Saw this quote on an ESPN article:

    As former GM Andy MacPhail used to say: ?There?s no such thing as a bad one-year contract in baseball.?

    My first thought is what about Garrett Atkins? Doesn't this quote give us some insight into McPhail's signings? Do you think DD thinks in the same terms?


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurting0 View Post
    Saw this quote on an ESPN article:

    As former GM Andy MacPhail used to say: ?There?s no such thing as a bad one-year contract in baseball.?

    My first thought is what about Garrett Atkins? Doesn't this quote give us some insight into McPhail's signings? Do you think DD thinks in the same terms?
    He's just saying that a 1 year contract doesn't hurt the team long term, I think. MacPhail is smart but I just think DD is a bit more baseball savvy. In terms of grabbing up the right players for low risk moves. If some of the scraps he picked up this offseason turn out to be good ones I'll be fully convinced of that. So, no, I don't think they think the same.

  3. #3
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    MacPhail was close: there is no such thing as a bad minor league deal.

  4. #4
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    The Atkins signing was a bizarre move from someone like AM, but it was only for one year. It did not prevent anyone's development in the organization, it did not cost a draft pick, it only cost a 25 man roster spot and $. Among mistake signings, the one year deal presumably fits within a team's budget and the $ presumably comes back on-line to be spent in a similar or wiser manner the next year. An longer term injury to a player on a one year deal also figures to have less impact than one on a multi-year deal.

    I know the Atkins signing was bad, but AM inherited several mistake contracts that cost about the same $ or more plus took the 25 man roster spots - signings like Bradford, Payton, Walker, Baez, Gibbons and Mora contract 2 (IIRC) and hung around the franchise's neck like dead weights. Harp on the Atkins signing all one wants (the guy stunk before, during and after his contract here) and it was fairly inexcusable, but all organizations encounter some sort of dead weight contracts worse than Atkins so let's not act like the O's misspent $ occurred in a vacuum.

    AM was someone who built his team around the best prospects the organization had (pitching), made shrewd trades and pointed the organization in the right direction in many areas - including front office and managerial personnel. AM did not care about his won-loss record and accepted the fact that the organization would accept the growing pains of it's youngest and best players as well as the peripheral benefit of a better draft pick - though with the negative that the losing disenfranchises the fans.

    IMO, the Os are at a different stage in the competitive cycle and we are seeing entirely different moves from DD. The building of better, more experienced depth, the stronger focus on winning and at least giving the organization a chance to compete for the playoffs on Day 1 - no Steve Traschel's here.

    Whether or not AM would have had similar or better success at this stage of the Os competitive cycle is something we'll never know. We do know that DD has done pretty well at dealing with what he inherited - which was significantly more than what folks thought a year ago.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiers View Post
    The Atkins signing was a bizarre move from someone like AM, but it was only for one year. It did not prevent anyone's development in the organization, it did not cost a draft pick, it only cost a 25 man roster spot and $. Among mistake signings, the one year deal presumably fits within a team's budget and the $ presumably comes back on-line to be spent in a similar or wiser manner the next year. An longer term injury to a player on a one year deal also figures to have less impact than one on a multi-year deal.

    I know the Atkins signing was bad, but AM inherited several mistake contracts that cost about the same $ or more plus took the 25 man roster spots - signings like Bradford, Payton, Walker, Baez, Gibbons and Mora contract 2 (IIRC) and hung around the franchise's neck like dead weights. Harp on the Atkins signing all one wants (the guy stunk before, during and after his contract here) and it was fairly inexcusable, but all organizations encounter some sort of dead weight contracts worse than Atkins so let's not act like the O's misspent $ occurred in a vacuum.

    AM was someone who built his team around the best prospects the organization had (pitching), made shrewd trades and pointed the organization in the right direction in many areas - including front office and managerial personnel. AM did not care about his won-loss record and accepted the fact that the organization would accept the growing pains of it's youngest and best players as well as the peripheral benefit of a better draft pick - though with the negative that the losing disenfranchises the fans.

    IMO, the Os are at a different stage in the competitive cycle and we are seeing entirely different moves from DD. The building of better, more experienced depth, the stronger focus on winning and at least giving the organization a chance to compete for the playoffs on Day 1 - no Steve Traschel's here.

    Whether or not AM would have had similar or better success at this stage of the Os competitive cycle is something we'll never know. We do know that DD has done pretty well at dealing with what he inherited - which was significantly more than what folks thought a year ago.
    Well said. However, AM's signing of D. Lee and Vlad were mistakes also - albeit only for one year. Man, those guys stunk. Remember when the A's had the Bash Bros? We had our version of the Stink Bros in 2011.

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    AM came on board mid-2007 when the payroll was $93,554,808. The 2008 payroll was $67,196,246, so the bad inherited contracts were substantially gone by the beginning of AM's first full year. Atkins was signed during the 2009-2010 offseason, long after any excuse could be placed on anyone's judgement other than Andy MacPhail's. Andy MacPhail is on record as referring to the Garrett Atkins signing as a "swing for the fences".

    The distinction between Andy MacPhail and Dan Duquette could not be clearer.

  7. #7
    Is there a substantial difference between a signing like Atkins and one like McLouth?

    Either way it's a guy around 30 who's a few years removed from his best season and who's seeing his price start to drop. The only difference I can see is that in the games McLouth played for us, he was good.

    I'd say it's a pretty common strategy to throw a couple bucks on some horses that haven't won a race in a while, sometimes you find value and sometimes they turn into dog food. Hey, topical humor!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaby Graves View Post
    Is there a substantial difference between a signing like Atkins and one like McLouth?

    Either way it's a guy around 30 who's a few years removed from his best season and who's seeing his price start to drop. The only difference I can see is that in the games McLouth played for us, he was good.

    I'd say it's a pretty common strategy to throw a couple bucks on some horses that haven't won a race in a while, sometimes you find value and sometimes they turn into dog food. Hey, topical humor!
    Yes, a guaranteed 4.5 MM ML contract vs a MiL deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaby Graves View Post
    Is there a substantial difference between a signing like Atkins and one like McLouth?

    Either way it's a guy around 30 who's a few years removed from his best season and who's seeing his price start to drop. The only difference I can see is that in the games McLouth played for us, he was good.

    I'd say it's a pretty common strategy to throw a couple bucks on some horses that haven't won a race in a while, sometimes you find value and sometimes they turn into dog food. Hey, topical humor!
    Atkins was signed for significant money as a free agent while his stats were trending down for several years. McLouth was released and signed to a minor league deal and was brought up because he was about to exercise his out clause.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazysilver03 View Post
    Atkins was signed for significant money as a free agent while his stats were trending down for several years. McLouth was released and signed to a minor league deal and was brought up because he was about to exercise his out clause.
    Quote Originally Posted by RVAbird View Post
    Yes, a guaranteed 4.5 MM ML contract vs a MiL deal.
    McLouth is on a MiL deal? I have him at 2 million this year, I assumed guaranteed.

    4 million is more than 2 but I didn't feel the principle is significantly different.

  11. #11
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    So does this mean that the Atkins signing means that AM was a really bad GM and the McLouth signing means that Duquette walks in water?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaby Graves View Post
    McLouth is on a MiL deal? I have him at 2 million this year, I assumed guaranteed.

    4 million is more than 2 but I didn't feel the principle is significantly different.
    When the Orioles acquired McLouth, he was a MiL mid-season pickup. That's the acquisition that should be compared to Atkins. The contract he was given this off-season was the result of solid late-season and post-season play with the ML club, something Atkins never provided.
    Last edited by RVAbird; 03-05-2013 at 06:51 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiers View Post
    The Atkins signing was a bizarre move from someone like AM, but it was only for one year. It did not prevent anyone's development in the organization, it did not cost a draft pick, it only cost a 25 man roster spot and $. Among mistake signings, the one year deal presumably fits within a team's budget and the $ presumably comes back on-line to be spent in a similar or wiser manner the next year. An longer term injury to a player on a one year deal also figures to have less impact than one on a multi-year deal.

    I know the Atkins signing was bad, but AM inherited several mistake contracts that cost about the same $ or more plus took the 25 man roster spots - signings like Bradford, Payton, Walker, Baez, Gibbons and Mora contract 2 (IIRC) and hung around the franchise's neck like dead weights. Harp on the Atkins signing all one wants (the guy stunk before, during and after his contract here) and it was fairly inexcusable, but all organizations encounter some sort of dead weight contracts worse than Atkins so let's not act like the O's misspent $ occurred in a vacuum.

    AM was someone who built his team around the best prospects the organization had (pitching), made shrewd trades and pointed the organization in the right direction in many areas - including front office and managerial personnel. AM did not care about his won-loss record and accepted the fact that the organization would accept the growing pains of it's youngest and best players as well as the peripheral benefit of a better draft pick - though with the negative that the losing disenfranchises the fans.

    IMO, the Os are at a different stage in the competitive cycle and we are seeing entirely different moves from DD. The building of better, more experienced depth, the stronger focus on winning and at least giving the organization a chance to compete for the playoffs on Day 1 - no Steve Traschel's here.

    Whether or not AM would have had similar or better success at this stage of the Os competitive cycle is something we'll never know. We do know that DD has done pretty well at dealing with what he inherited - which was significantly more than what folks thought a year ago.
    And the complete lack of a good first baseman and the awful corresponding offense set into motion the dismissal of Trembley and the hiring of Showalter. Best signing ever.

    Sent from my C5155 using Tapatalk 2

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by crowmst3k! View Post
    And the complete lack of a good first baseman and the awful corresponding offense set into motion the dismissal of Trembley and the hiring of Showalter. Best signing ever.

    Sent from my C5155 using Tapatalk 2
    The Trembley era wasn't about bad offense, it was about atrocious pitching.

  15. #15
    Hallas is offline Plus Member Major League Starter Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slappy View Post
    The Trembley era wasn't about bad offense, it was about atrocious pitching.
    That's funny, I kind of associate that era (and most "eras" from 1998-2011) to atrocious everything.

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