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  1. #1
    Frobby is offline Hangout Blogger Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
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    HHP: O's Trouble Spot: 6th/7th inning

    Going into last night --

    6th inning ERA: 7.64
    7th inning ERA: 5.73

    They're much better than average in innings 1, 4-5 and 8-9, and just a fraction below average in the 2nd and 3rd inning.

    The 6th inning was a trouble spot last year, too (5.94 ERA).

    Last night was no exception, as Tillman coughed up a 2-run homer with 2 outs in the 6th. In the 6th inning:

    Gonzalez 14.40 ERA (5 innings)
    Hammel 7.50 ERA (6 innings)
    Tillman 4.16 ERA (4.1 innings)
    Chen 3.18 ERA (5.2 innings)
    5th starters: 16.85 ERA (2.2 innings)
    Bullpen: 5.23 ERA (10.1 innings)

    It's tempting to say it's Buck's fault for sticking with his starters too long. But I'd say it's more on the pitchers. Mind you, this is a small sample and a few really bad innings can really skew things.


  2. #2
    Well the 6th and 7th is usually when the other teams lineup is seeing our starter for the third or fourth time. Most teams tend to hit much better when they are up for the third or fourth time against the same pitcher.

    Not even sure what we can do about it other than to start calling pitches differently in those innings, working on our starters fitness level or just start pulling them early every game (which isn't a viable long term solution).

    Definitely need to do SOMETHING though, just wish I knew what that something was. Buck's a smart guy, he'll figure it out!

  3. #3
    Frobby is offline Hangout Blogger Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norfolk orioles View Post
    Well the 6th and 7th is usually when the other teams lineup is seeing our starter for the third or fourth time. Most teams tend to hit much better when they are up for the third or fourth time against the same pitcher.
    The point is, we are doing FAR worse than "most teams" in the 6th and 7th inning. Average for those innings is 4.25 and 4.24. If other teams can get through those innings with a big blow-up, why can't we, when we're actually significantly better than average in innings 1-5 combined?

  4. #4
    UpstateNYfan is offline Plus Member Since 01/11 Major League Starter Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
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    I'd rather have a 6th or 7th inning problem than 1st or 2nd (or worse 8th and 9th). In the recent past, we had trouble falling behind early. Guthrie in particular would have trouble early. The starters have done a good job keeping the team in the game and giving the O's a chance every night.

  5. #5
    Frobby is offline Hangout Blogger Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpstateNYfan View Post
    I'd rather have a 6th or 7th inning problem than 1st or 2nd (or worse 8th and 9th). In the recent past, we had trouble falling behind early. Guthrie in particular would have trouble early. The starters have done a good job keeping the team in the game and giving the O's a chance every night.
    I agree with your point. Seems like we're ahead early in the game most nights.

  6. #6
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    It seems like our gameplan is:

    Get lead
    Lose lead in 5th-7th
    Regain lead
    O'day and JJ close it out

  7. #7
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    This is true and the main reason why I see them adding a releiver at some point instead of a starter, cheaper and more available as teams fall by the wayside.

  8. #8
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    A healthy Wada and Steve Johnson will be great options in the 6/7 innings.

  9. #9
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    I don't think any of our SP were adequately prepared this ST. Command is a matter of repetition and I just don't think they got enough work in. None of them look as sharp as they did last year.

  10. #10
    CA-ORIOLE is online now Plus Members Since 9/11 Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Gordo View Post
    I don't think any of our SP were adequately prepared this ST. Command is a matter of repetition and I just don't think they got enough work in. None of them look as sharp as they did last year.
    I think this is true as well. The good news is, I think they may not be that
    far off.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobby View Post
    Going into last night --

    6th inning ERA: 7.64
    7th inning ERA: 5.73

    They're much better than average in innings 1, 4-5 and 8-9, and just a fraction below average in the 2nd and 3rd inning.

    The 6th inning was a trouble spot last year, too (5.94 ERA).

    Last night was no exception, as Tillman coughed up a 2-run homer with 2 outs in the 6th. In the 6th inning:

    Gonzalez 14.40 ERA (5 innings)
    Hammel 7.50 ERA (6 innings)
    Tillman 4.16 ERA (4.1 innings)
    Chen 3.18 ERA (5.2 innings)
    5th starters: 16.85 ERA (2.2 innings)
    Bullpen: 5.23 ERA (10.1 innings)

    It's tempting to say it's Buck's fault for sticking with his starters too long. But I'd say it's more on the pitchers. Mind you, this is a small sample and a few really bad innings can really skew things.
    Starters must go six innings for oh so many reasons. It's never Buck's fault for leaving them in. It is the fault of the pitcher who can not go six. Because of high pitch counts, I suspect several starters are pitching to contact at a time that that can play badly.


    Now I agree. If a spot starter of a number 5 guy with options is bombing, by all means take him out and try to win the game. You really don't have that option with the top four guys.

  12. #12
    RZNJ's Avatar
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    Chen pitche 20 inningsin 2012 ST against ML teams. He pitched 7.2 this year. Hammel pitched 17 innings in 2012. 9 this year. All of our pitchers have all thrown about 40 innings so far. I don't buy that theory for a second. After 2 starts, it holds no water at all.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Gordo View Post
    I don't think any of our SP were adequately prepared this ST. Command is a matter of repetition and I just don't think they got enough work in. None of them look as sharp as they did last year.
    Quote Originally Posted by CA-ORIOLE View Post
    I think this is true as well. The good news is, I think they may not be that
    far off.
    I can't agree with this at all.

    Frankly, imo, it's just a meme that's taken root here that has little basis in reality.

    The fact is, our top 4 starters are performing about as they should be.

    Add in the fact that we're six weeks into the season, and how long is 6 innings in ST, going to be used as a crutch for every time they give up some runs?

  14. #14
    CA-ORIOLE is online now Plus Members Since 9/11 Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pickles View Post
    I can't agree with this at all.

    Frankly, imo, it's just a meme that's taken root here that has little basis in reality.

    The fact is, our top 4 starters are performing about as they should be.

    Add in the fact that we're six weeks into the season, and how long is 6 innings in ST, going to be used as a crutch for every time they give up some runs?
    Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't think the starters have performed horribly at all, just that could have been a little more prepared coming into the season. At this point, I would not be holding ST as an excuse for any poor performances.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CA-ORIOLE View Post
    Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't think the starters have performed horribly at all, just that could have been a little more prepared coming into the season. At this point, I would not be holding ST as an excuse for any poor performances.
    And likewise you're entitled to yours.

    We do both agree that at this point it has no bearing on their performance.

    TBH, I'm quite happy with the way our top 4 have pitched this year. I don't think anybody should have reasonably expected more.

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