+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 65
  1. #1
    jamesenoch is offline Plus Member Since June 09 Major Leagues Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    North East, Maryland
    Posts
    705

    ESPN's Schoenfield : Orioles look like a team that will decline

    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...t-will-decline

    The offseason isn't over. There's still time for the O's to make a couple moves. They need to, because right now they're looking like a .500 team at best and if Adam Jones or Davis gets injured or Machado can't play until June, it could turn into a Blue Jays-like disaster of a season.

    Time to step up, Angelos. Find the money. Why own a team if you don't want to win?


  2. #2
    MrOrange82's Avatar
    MrOrange82 is offline Plus Member since 8/10 All-Star Reputation
    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,582
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesenoch View Post
    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...t-will-decline

    The offseason isn't over. There's still time for the O's to make a couple moves. They need to, because right now they're looking like a .500 team at best and if Adam Jones or Davis gets injured or Machado can't play until June, it could turn into a Blue Jays-like disaster of a season.

    Time to step up, Angelos. Find the money. Why own a team if you don't want to win?
    In broad strokes, the article correctly IDs a lot of the Orioles' potential problems. However, I think it's pretty dimwitted to (1) argue in favor of FA signings while (2) using the Blue Jays as a "disaster" comp. Similarly, but less egregiously, signing Morales would not be uncontroversial...to put it mildly.

  3. #3
    Not much new in there. Hard not to just regurgitate the same things over and over at this point.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    315
    This is nonsensical. How did those big FA signings work out for the Jays last year?

  5. #5
    MurphDogg's Avatar
    MurphDogg is offline Plus Member Since 04/04 - Major League Hangouter All-Star Reputation
    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    A long foul ball from Camden Yards
    Posts
    7,288
    I can't agree with someone who says "Orioles starters had a 4.57 ERA, 12th in the AL, and allowed the most home runs per nine innings (1.32). OK, some of that is Camden Yards. But it's a group that lacks a No. 1 starter. Or a No. 2."

    To say Chris Tillman is less than a #2 starter is absurd and reeks of trying to write around a narrative instead of letting the facts be the facts.

  6. #6
    Frobby is online now Hangout Blogger Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bethesda MD
    Posts
    63,626
    Quote Originally Posted by MurphDogg View Post
    I can't agree with someone who says "Orioles starters had a 4.57 ERA, 12th in the AL, and allowed the most home runs per nine innings (1.32). OK, some of that is Camden Yards. But it's a group that lacks a No. 1 starter. Or a No. 2."

    To say Chris Tillman is less than a #2 starter is absurd and reeks of trying to write around a narrative instead of letting the facts be the facts.
    Well, I'd say it is at least semi-debatable. Tillman ranked 20th in ERA among AL qualified starters, but 30th in FIP, 27th in fWAR. That arguably puts him at the very bottom tier of no. 2 starters in the league, and below many no. 2 starters on good teams. I'd still defend Tillman as a no. 2, but I wouldn't call the contrary opinion "absurd."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Hung on for the ride.
    Posts
    52,577
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesenoch View Post
    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...t-will-decline

    The offseason isn't over. There's still time for the O's to make a couple moves. They need to, because right now they're looking like a .500 team at best and if Adam Jones or Davis gets injured or Machado can't play until June, it could turn into a Blue Jays-like disaster of a season.

    Time to step up, Angelos. Find the money. Why own a team if you don't want to win?
    A Blue Jays type disaster requires a 200 million dollar payroll and trading all your top prospects over 5 foot 5 inches tall.

  8. #8
    Can_of_corn's Avatar
    Can_of_corn is offline Plus Member since 12/09 Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    27,069
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesenoch View Post
    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...t-will-decline

    The offseason isn't over. There's still time for the O's to make a couple moves. They need to, because right now they're looking like a .500 team at best and if Adam Jones or Davis gets injured or Machado can't play until June, it could turn into a Blue Jays-like disaster of a season.

    Time to step up, Angelos. Find the money. Why own a team if you don't want to win?
    To make lots of money.

    Someone needs to convince him that spending more means higher profits.

    Good luck someone.

  9. #9
    Can_of_corn's Avatar
    Can_of_corn is offline Plus Member since 12/09 Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    27,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Frobby View Post
    Well, I'd say it is at least semi-debatable. Tillman ranked 20th in ERA among AL qualified starters, but 30th in FIP, 27th in fWAR. That arguably puts him at the very bottom tier of no. 2 starters in the league, and below many no. 2 starters on good teams. I'd still defend Tillman as a no. 2, but I wouldn't call the contrary opinion "absurd."
    Thirty teams Frobby. Not sure how 30th in FIP and 27th in fWAR makes you the 55-60th best pitcher in the league.

  10. #10
    atomic is offline Plus Member since 03/12 All-Star Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,750
    Quote Originally Posted by Frobby View Post
    Well, I'd say it is at least semi-debatable. Tillman ranked 20th in ERA among AL qualified starters, but 30th in FIP, 27th in fWAR. That arguably puts him at the very bottom tier of no. 2 starters in the league, and below many no. 2 starters on good teams. I'd still defend Tillman as a no. 2, but I wouldn't call the contrary opinion "absurd."
    FWAR is not a valid stat in my opinion. Also ERA should be high in a hitters park like Camden Yards and the other parks in the AL East excluding Tampa. So if you use bogus stats than fine he isn't a number one pitcher but if you use valid stats he is a number 1 pitcher. This is what baseball reference has:

    WAR 2013 AL 4.4 (10th)
    Last edited by atomic; 01-15-2014 at 02:09 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,100
    IIRC, ESPN had the Orioles as a 70-win team last preseason, with Boston being the only other losing team in the AL East. These types of predictions don't concern me all that much.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    784
    Lowest common denominator article.

    Typical Orioles article will consist of the following steps:
    1. Required jab at Angelos
    2. Mention of no big names picked up over off season
    3. Gross underestimating of current team especially players that have done well
    4. 1,000 words around the 3 points above to make it look like the writer did research
    5. Post live and look like expert.

  13. #13
    lovetoaster is offline Plus Member Since 01/08 All-Star Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    3,191
    Quote Originally Posted by Can_of_corn View Post
    Thirty teams Frobby. Not sure how 30th in FIP and 27th in fWAR makes you the 55-60th best pitcher in the league.
    I think his numbers were just from the AL.

  14. #14
    MurphDogg's Avatar
    MurphDogg is offline Plus Member Since 04/04 - Major League Hangouter All-Star Reputation
    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    A long foul ball from Camden Yards
    Posts
    7,288
    Quote Originally Posted by Frobby View Post
    Well, I'd say it is at least semi-debatable. Tillman ranked 20th in ERA among AL qualified starters, but 30th in FIP, 27th in fWAR. That arguably puts him at the very bottom tier of no. 2 starters in the league, and below many no. 2 starters on good teams. I'd still defend Tillman as a no. 2, but I wouldn't call the contrary opinion "absurd."
    And he was 10th in rWAR. FIP (and fWAR which is based on FIP) punishes pitchers with high home run rates. Chris Tillman pitches at OPACY and other AL East stadiums more frequently than other pitchers.

  15. #15
    Can_of_corn's Avatar
    Can_of_corn is offline Plus Member since 12/09 Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    27,069
    Quote Originally Posted by lovetoaster View Post
    I think his numbers were just from the AL.
    That does look more then possible. I will still contend that those ranking in the AL make you better then 55-60 overall but the case is obviously much weaker.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

OriolesHangout.com is an unofficial site and not associated with the Baltimore Orioles and part of Hangout Ventures LLC. Copyright ©2013 | Privacy Policy | Advertise with us