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  1. #1
    Frobby is offline Hangout Blogger Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
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    Does Angelos really have a 3-year, <$10 mm/yr limit for pitchers? I don't think so.

    The O's offered Mussina 5 years at around $60 mm in 2000. They offered Carl Pavano 4 years, $40 mm in 2004. I find it very difficult to believe there is some hard and fast rule imposed by Peter Angelos that the O's can't go more than three years or spend more than $10 mm/yr on a pitcher. Rather, in my opinion, the GM's haven't liked the opportunities that have presented themselves within their overall payroll limits.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobby View Post
    The O's offered Mussina 5 years at around $60 mm in 2000. They offered Carl Pavano 4 years, $40 mm in 2004. I find it very difficult to believe there is some hard and fast rule imposed by Peter Angelos that the O's can't go more than three years or spend more than $10 mm/yr on a pitcher. Rather, in my opinion, the GM's haven't liked the opportunities that have presented themselves within their overall payroll limits.
    I guess we will see when he spends more. I believe he would though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobby View Post
    The O's offered Mussina 5 years at around $60 mm in 2000. They offered Carl Pavano 4 years, $40 mm in 2004. I find it very difficult to believe there is some hard and fast rule imposed by Peter Angelos that the O's can't go more than three years or spend more than $10 mm/yr on a pitcher. Rather, in my opinion, the GM's haven't liked the opportunities that have presented themselves within their overall payroll limits.

    I don't think anyone actually believes there is a rule. The point is that we don't spend money on FA SPs. I am sure if the stars all aligned and you stroked Peter's ego and gave him a massage, he would consider anything. Heck, maybe there is a pitcher out there from Greece that would fill the void...

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    Quote Originally Posted by weams View Post
    I guess we will see when he spends more. I believe he would though.

    I agree there, when the contract is signed and the doctors can't find an excuse to void it, then I will become a believer, until then, we have to go back what has happened here, and so far the answer is ZIP!

  5. #5
    andrewochs615's Avatar
    andrewochs615 is offline Plus Member since 07/11 All-Star Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
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    I always thought this was a DD rule

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    Let's see we have had one owner and 1/2 dozen GM's in the last 15 years... and we have not spent >10M/3yrs on any pitcher.

    Sure, none of the GM's have wanted to sign a top flight pitcher... sure it's their fault. Got it.

  7. #7
    Os84's Avatar
    Os84 is offline Plus member since 1/12 Major Leagues Reputation Reputation
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewochs615 View Post
    I always thought this was a DD rule
    I am pretty sure MacPhail followed this rule as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Os84 View Post
    I am pretty sure MacPhail followed this rule as well.
    Yeppers, when the Boss has that rule, even you enforce it, or you find another job.

  9. #9
    Tx Oriole's Avatar
    Tx Oriole is online now Plus Member Since 04/04 - All-Star Hangouter Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redskins Rick View Post
    I agree there, when the contract is signed and the doctors can't find an excuse to void it, then I will become a believer, until then, we have to go back what has happened here, and so far the answer is ZIP!
    Rick are there any pitchers you would want the O's to sign for over three years? I
    can't think of any.

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    I think this offseason, for some reason, the Orioles did not want to put any contracts on the books for 2016. I don't know the reason for that, but I believe that to be the case.

  11. #11
    mcneck is offline Plus Member since 06/11 Major Leagues Reputation
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    I believe they also offered Jason Schmidt 3/48. This is one time I am relieved they didn't spend the money lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcneck View Post
    I believe they also offered Jason Schmidt 3/48. This is one time I am relieved they didn't spend the money lol

    The Orioles have been known to throw a set of numbers at a player, with no intention of getting that player, but they use that to tell the fan base, well, we tried, not our fault it didn't work out.

  13. #13
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    Some background on Mussina

    The Baltimore Orioles' current contract offer to pitcher Mike Mussina of $60 million over five years apparently would have completed the deal had the team offered it to him last summer, Mussina said.

    "Yeah, I would say [the Orioles' current offer] probably would have gotten it done" last summer, said Mussina, whose current contract expires at the end of this season.

    In January, the Orioles opened with an offer of $42.5 million over five years, later increasing it to $50 million. Under the current offer of $60 million, $10 million would be deferred. However, Mussina's price tag has risen steadily the closer he gets to free agency. He now is believed to be seeking a contract worth about $15 million annually over five or six years. There has been no movement in negotiations in at least two weeks.

    According to team and league sources, agent Arn Tellem and then-Orioles general manager Frank Wren last summer discussed the parameters of an extension for Mussina. The numbers used by Tellem then to outline Mussina's asking price were roughly the same as the Orioles' current offer, the sources said.

    Wren made the proposal to Orioles majority owner Peter Angelos with the recommendation that the team get a deal done immediately, according to sources. But the Orioles made no firm offer until January, at which time Mussina was within a year of free agency and increasingly inclined to wait.
    source - Washington Post, Apr. 18, 2000
    The Orioles' highest offer was for $78 million over six years, with $12 million deferred without interest. The Orioles' last contact with Mussina's agent, Arn Tellem, came on Friday, when majority owner Peter Angelos told him the Orioles would not improve their offer.
    Still, Tellem gave Angelos the courtesy of a final phone call, which Mussina had promised to do before signing. But Angelos did not budge, and by Monday, Mussina was in New York for a physical examination and dinner with Torre. Angelos could not be reached for comment tonight.

    "I still wanted to [give the Orioles the last chance] even though I was disappointed they hadn't called more," Mussina said. "I thought of what it would have taken [for the Orioles] to change my mind, and I couldn't think of anything."

    Given the history of the negotiations, Mussina's insistence on giving the Orioles the final bid and the strong impression the Yankees' recruiting efforts made on Mussina, it appears the Orioles lost Mussina more than the Yankees won him, a theory Mussina did not dispute.

    "If [the Orioles] really wanted me back," Mussina said, "they would have done more."

    Tellem's last serious negotiations with Angelos came in August, and Mussina said today that the Orioles' most recent offer, made last week, would have been enough to wrap him up in August, when the Orioles were still offering $60 million over five years.

    Similarly, that offer would have gotten a deal done a year ago, when Tellem and then-Orioles general manager Frank Wren discussed a deal with those parameters. According to Wren, he went to Angelos in the summer of 1999 and suggested they wrap up Mussina, but Angelos thought it was too much money.

    Said Tellem: "Peter and I had differing opinions of what [Mussina's] value was."
    source - Washington Post, Nov. 30, 2000

  14. #14
    Frobby is offline Hangout Blogger Hall of Fame Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redskins Rick View Post
    The Orioles have been known to throw a set of numbers at a player, with no intention of getting that player, but they use that to tell the fan base, well, we tried, not our fault it didn't work out.
    The statement that they had no intention of signing the player is your opinion, not established fact.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobby View Post
    The statement that they had no intention of signing the player is your opinion, not established fact.
    Well, you can say that, but how many guys like Tex, have they thrown numbers out, and then they signed with another team, they tell us the fans, well we tried, we can't help it, they signed elsewhere.

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