Pete Rose's 4,000th Hit in Montreal

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Rose gave the ball to his hitting coach, Billy DeMars.

Not coincidentally, DeMars left the Expos after the 1984 season, and was hired by the Cincinnati Reds the following year (where Rose had been traded back to later in that same 1984 season.)

DeMars was also the hitting coach of the Philadelphia Phillies from 1969 through 1981 ....... where he first coached Rose when he arrived there as a free agent in 1979.

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It would be interesting to see how the end of his career would have gone down today. From 1980 through his retirement he was below replacement. That was his last 884 hits. Biggio gets a little subtle ribbing about staying on for one last year that was sub-replacement to get to 3000. Pete was a first baseman with a sub-.700 OPS his last 3700 PAs. That's longer than Chris Davis career thus far.

It would be interesting to see how the end of his career would have gone down today. From 1980 through his retirement he was below replacement. That was his last 884 hits. Biggio gets a little subtle ribbing about staying on for one last year that was sub-replacement to get to 3000. Pete was a first baseman with a sub-.700 OPS his last 3700 PAs. That's longer than Chris Davis career thus far.

I don't think that analysis is entirely fair as you're using a metric that includes slugging when Rose never pretended or claimed to be a slugger. The OPS metric is nice but it also doesn't tell the full story for someone like Ichiro, either.

Rose's OBP from 1980-1985 was .357. Not amazing, but certainly not terrible.

You are right, he was playing a position that does usually require power, though. However there were first baseman at the time that weren't bona fide power hitters like Hernandez. Though Hernandez added plenty of value with his glove. I'm not sure if you could say the same for an aging Rose.

Anywho, good stuff OFFNY. I'm assuming DeMars was one of the dujour hitting coaches of the day. Curious to know what DeMars did for Rose to make Rose such a believer.

Turns out DeMars has strong Orioles ties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_DeMars

On May 25, 1958 DeMars began an 11-year minor league managerial career in the Baltimore Orioles' farm system with the Class C Aberdeen Pheasants of the Northern League, who had lost 23 of their first 25 games. While the Pheasants continued to flounder under DeMars, winning only 37 of 100 games, the improved performance earned DeMars an invitation to return to the Orioles' system with the Class C Stockton Ports of the California League in 1959, where he posted a winning record. He managed in the Baltimore organization through 1968 — working alongside future Major League managers such as Earl Weaver, Joe Altobelli, Darrell Johnson, Jim Frey, Clyde King, Cal Ripken, Sr., and Billy Hunter. He succeeded Weaver as pilot of the AAA Rochester Red Wings in 1968 and led the Red Wings into the playoffs. Overall, his managing record was 711 wins, 729 losses (.493) with one championship, won with the Class A Fox Cities Foxes of the Midwest League in 1964.

I don't think that analysis is entirely fair as you're using a metric that includes slugging when Rose never pretended or claimed to be a slugger. The OPS metric is nice but it also doesn't tell the full story for someone like Ichiro, either.

Rose's OBP from 1980-1985 was .357. Not amazing, but certainly not terrible.

You are right, he was playing a position that does usually require power, though. However there were first baseman at the time that weren't bona fide power hitters like Hernandez. Though Hernandez added plenty of value with his glove. I'm not sure if you could say the same for an aging Rose.

Anywho, good stuff OFFNY. I'm assuming DeMars was one of the dujour hitting coaches of the day. Curious to know what DeMars did for Rose to make Rose such a believer.

Rose's OBP did make him more valuable than a typical .680 OPS first baseman with a -5 glove.

I think it is true that there were many more awful players in MLB during that era. The scrutiny and analysis just wasn't there, and that led to many, many guys playing because of the impression of their gloves. I was going to say that Rose was among the worst hitters in baseball in 1983, but that's not actually true. The league was (relatively) full of Jose Oquendos and Steve Lubratiches, who were kind of okay on defense and OPS'd around .500. Doug Flynn on the Expos hit .237/.267/.294 in 477 PAs. Rose had a 68 wRC+. That was awful, especially as a nearly full time 1B/RF. But there were many like him.

Ain't no way Pete Rose was going to bench Pete Rose when Jerry Dybzinski was getting at bats.

Rose's OBP did make him more valuable than a typical .680 OPS first baseman with a -5 glove.

I think it is true that there were many more awful players in MLB during that era. The scrutiny and analysis just wasn't there, and that led to many, many guys playing because of the impression of their gloves. I was going to say that Rose was among the worst hitters in baseball in 1983, but that's not actually true. The league was (relatively) full of Jose Oquendos and Steve Lubratiches, who were kind of okay on defense and OPS'd around .500. Doug Flynn on the Expos hit .237/.267/.294 in 477 PAs. Rose had a 68 wRC+. That was awful, especially as a nearly full time 1B/RF. But there were many like him.

Ain't no way Pete Rose was going to bench Pete Rose when Jerry Dybzinski was getting at bats.

Pretty sure that Rose wasn't managing in 1983. He played on the Phillies team that the Orioles beat in the 1983 WS. Rose became player-manager of the Reds in 1984, IIRC.

Pretty sure that Rose wasn't managing in 1983. He played on the Phillies team that the Orioles beat in the 1983 WS. Rose became player-manager of the Reds in 1984, IIRC.

Yes, that is true. But by the time he was closing in on Cobb he was managing. The '83 Phils were managed by some really old guy... umm... Paul Owens. Owens was the GM, fired Pat Corrales with the team in first place (although just 43-42 at the time) and installed himself in the dugout. Strange, but I guess it worked.