How come the Blue Jays can be competitive and the Orioles can't?

[MarkF]

When comparing the Orioles with the team they've been chasing for 8 years, how come they can put together better teams? The Blue Jays aren't a big market, they're not even in the USA.

Some how their scouts found Gustavo Chacin in Venezuala.

2005 13-9 and 5-1 This year.

They dealt for Lyle Overbay, some prospects and a pitcher with a losing record.

Their payroll is just a little smaller than the Orioles, but they are a much better team and better put together.

Some may think that 29 year old Troy Glaus is overpaid as 10 mil, but is Chris Benson really an 8.3 mil pitcher? Is Javy Lopez worth 9 mil?

It seems their gambles are more calculated and successful. AJ Burnett? He's worth a 2.2 mil gamble. Considering Bruse Chen is making 50% more.

They answer, I beleive, lies with Flannagan. Angelos gave him 72 million to spend, and he spent unwisely.

This post is a TOTAL waste of time. Another chance to attack Angelos. Gee...that's new.....NOT

[keysersose]

1998-2005 has nothing to do with this year, except for people who hate the owner and refuse to recognize that the franchise approach changed in 2003. Any reasonable discussion of the progress of the franchise will be focused on the current mgt, which means Flanagan. Talking about 1998 is no more relevant than talking about 1958, '68, '78, or '88... unless of course you believe in boogie-men, things that go bump in the night, and the inherent evilness of PA.

how many players who failed on the 2005 team are on this team?

8 years is relevant so is 7 ,6,5 and 4. A player dtafted into the organization 8 years ago, should be a productive major leaguer by know. Same for a player drafted 7, 6 & 5 years ago. A 1st round dtaft choice with a little college should be on the team now.

With all the 1st round draft choices and high second round draft choices, how many are on the 25 man roster?

This current team's performance is directly related to the team's performance over the past 4-8 years. 8 years of classless, uncompetitive, lackluster baseball. onto the 9th year of losing.
The Baltimore Orioles are an after thought in the Major Leagues, a non entity.

[bigbird]

Toronto is not afraid to deal quality talent for quality talent. The Orioles and the majority of their fans are so afraid we'll trade the next Babe Ruth or Cy Young. We have to be risk takers and that we are not.

[section34]

Toronto is not afraid to deal quality talent for quality talent. The Orioles and the majority of their fans are so afraid we'll trade the next Babe Ruth or Cy Young. We have to be risk takers and that we are not.

Did Albert Belle create this? It seems we never had this problem until he tanked.

[bigbird]

Did Albert Belle create this? It seems we never had this problem until he tanked.

I don't think so. I think it's too many years of a dry farm system. Who is the last top prospect we've included in a trade?

[NewMarketSean]

And FAILED.

And that is a market that looked to be dying not too long ago, so they cannot afford to fail, especially when they are paying $102 million to a questionable starter and a closer.

And if you are going to pull out the "at least they tried" rhetoric, then make sure you give the Orioles the same credit with Konerko.

Who says they failed? The season is not over yet... there are still 120 games to be played. Isn't that what you always say?

You should know better than to make a statement like that.

And the last time I checked, the BJ's actually signed the players they were after. I'll give the O's credit when they sign Konerko. Oh yeah that's right -- they didn't. They offered him a deal they knew he would reject to cover their azz.

[badboydrake]

Who says they failed? The season is not over yet... there are still 120 games to be played. Isn't that what you always say?

You should know better than to make a statement like that.

And the last time I checked, the BJ's actually signed the players they were after. I'll give the O's credit when they sign Konerko. Oh yeah that's right -- they didn't. They offered him a deal they knew he would reject to cover their azz.

Did you see that quote from WB that said Angelos wanted to get Delgado/Vlad, but Beattie assured him the money was correct.

At least with Konerko, the offer actually rose, so its hard to say we didnt give an effort

[keysersose]

Did you see that quote from WB that said Angelos wanted to get Delgado/Vlad, but Beattie assured him the money was correct.

At least with Konerko, the offer actually rose, so its hard to say we didnt give an effort

No credit for effort.

The team is graded 162 times a season. For the last 8 seasons, that grade has been below average, D. While it's too early to grade this season, their preparation for this season has been a failure.
Going into the season, the team needed to upgrade corner outfield power, 1B, starting ptiching and relief setup. So, the Orioles signed a free agent catcher and a 4 million dollar relief pitcher.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Who says they failed? The season is not over yet... there are still 120 games to be played. Isn't that what you always say?

You should know better than to make a statement like that.

And the last time I checked, the BJ's actually signed the players they were after. I'll give the O's credit when they sign Konerko. Oh yeah that's right -- they didn't. They offered him a deal they knew he would reject to cover their azz.

You said that if they finish the season in the same position, at least they would have tried. I then said they would have failed, which is true.

And last time I checked, you aren't giving any credit for trying, so let's not give it to the Jays unless you are willing to give it to the team you claim to love first.

And I would really like to know where that "cover their..." thing came from, because not only does it have no basis in reality, it is completely insane to even suggest it. You should be ashamed of yourself for lowering youself to that level, because even when we disagree you are usually making sense.

[NewMarketSean]

You said that if they finish the season in the same position, at least they would have tried. I then said they would have failed, which is true.

And last time I checked, you aren't giving any credit for trying, so let's not give it to the Jays unless you are willing to give it to the team you claim to love first.

And I would really like to know where that "cover their..." thing came from, because not only does it have no basis in reality, it is completely insane to even suggest it. You should be ashamed of yourself for lowering youself to that level, because even when we disagree you are usually making sense.

It is possible to try and fail. It's the thought that counts. Let's just say I'd rather be a BJ fan than an O's fan right now. They are making moves and trying to do something while we are spinning our wheels and counting on what can be a crap shoot (developing players).

What have the O's tried to do? Spare me the Konerko excuse. It was your basic CYA move. They offered the same amount of money to Konerko as the White Sox did -- the defending World CHamps. Only a moron would come to Baltimore under those circumstances.

And what's up with this talk of being ashamed? I'm ashamed of nothing. The O's should be ashamed of not giving their fans a better product.

[BaltimoreTerp]

No credit for effort.

The team is graded 162 times a season. For the last 8 seasons, that grade has been below average, D. While it's too early to grade this season, their preparation for this season has been a failure.
Going into the season, the team needed to upgrade corner outfield power, 1B, starting ptiching and relief setup. So, the Orioles signed a free agent catcher and a 4 million dollar relief pitcher.

Actually, we signed a free-agent catcher, a first baseman, traded for a reliever and a starter, and brought up a highly-touted rookie outfieder.

Plus, last time I checked we were still on pace to score an above-average number of runs for the season with this "failure" of an offense.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a good ignorace-filled bash-fest.

[NewMarketSean]

Actually, we signed a free-agent catcher, a first baseman, traded for a reliever and a starter, and brought up a highly-touted rookie outfieder.

Plus, last time I checked we were still on pace to score an above-average number of runs for the season with this "failure" of an offense.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a good ignorace-filled bash-fest.

Keep that candle burning in the rain, BT! You'll be the last person out there like always!

[BaltimoreTerp]

It is possible to try and fail. It's the thought that counts. Let's just say I'd rather be a BJ fan than an O's fan right now. They are making moves and trying to do something while we are spinning our wheels and counting on what can be a crap shoot (developing players).

Then go with them if you think that highly of their moves.

Personally, I would rather not see the Orioles risk their future on highly-paid mediocre players, but that's just the sensible part of me.

What have the O's tried to do? Spare me the Konerko excuse. It was your basic CYA move. They offered the same amount of money to Konerko as the White Sox did -- the defending World CHamps. Only a moron would come to Baltimore under those circumstances.

Didn't we offer him a million more a year? The same amount many think could have brought us Delgado?

Or are you covering YOUR "A" because the Orioles actually tried, but you won't give THEM credit for it.

And what's up with this talk of being ashamed? I'm ashamed of nothing. The O's should be ashamed of not giving their fans a better product.

Yeah, but you are apparently a Blue Jays fan now, so what does it matter?

You should be ashamed for bringing up things that make you sound like you are cowering under a table in a tinfoil hat afraid of the Evil BoogyAngelos coming after you.

Some people claim that I'M not realistic. At least I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Keep that candle burning in the rain, BT! You'll be the last person out there like always!

Better then running from the Big Scary Raindrops.

[BaltimoreTerp]

You know, we probably should end this now; it's not going to go anywhere but down.

I'm done if you are.