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[Sports Guy]

Can you give specific examples?

Most things done down there are down half ass...There is no accountability...No one feels they can voice their opinion because they think they will get fired.

Little things take forever or are handled poorly.

This starts from the top and trickles down.

Employees, even at the small level i was on, are unhappy, overworked and underpaid.

It is a terrible organization and i am not sure it has gotten better, even though i havent been there in a few years.

It is a shame to because there are alot of people there who do know what they are doing and could be an asset but they are not allowed to be.

[RZNJ]

Owners approve deals, thats what owners do. Some are more involved than others - some of them are way more involved than they should be, Angelos is one of them.

All I am saying is give credit where credit is due. Angelos meddling probably saved us from two very bad trades that would have really hurt this team not only in the short term - but the long term as well.

I still want the guy gone as much as anyone, but I will give him some props when he deserves it.

And we don't know how many deals that would have been beneficial to the team that he nixed. The line between GM & owner is much too fuzzy. If he happened to be right about certain things, so be it. I'm not saying he's never right. I'm saying he should butt out and let his GM's be wrong if that is what they are. Trust them to do their jobs. Sure, the owner has to approve certain spenditures but they don't have to approve every deal. At least most owners don't. Why do you think the perception around baseball is that the O's organization is such a mess compared to everyone else? It's not because we do things the "normal way".

[SilentJames]

And we don't know how many deals that would have been beneficial to the team that he nixed. The line between GM & owner is much too fuzzy. If he happened to be right about certain things, so be it. I'm not saying he's never right. I'm saying he should butt out and let his GM's be wrong if that is what they are. Trust them to do their jobs. Sure, the owner has to approve certain spenditures but they don't have to approve every deal. At least most owners don't. Why do you think the perception around baseball is that the O's organization is such a mess compared to everyone else? It's not because we do things the "normal way".

But how many teams can say the exact same thing?

The flip side is, how many BONEHEAD moves has Angelos nixed that would have gone through otherwise?

A lot of the owners don't like Angelos personally - I remember it was said on here a little while ago that Angelos is a Democratic, Pro-Labor type of guy and that rubs alot of the very conservative base of owners the wrong way.

Is the FO run poorly - yeah I am not going to argue that but lets face it there are owners in the game that are just as bad, if not WORSE than Angelos, they just happen to be riding a wave of anionimity or winning right now.

Ask any Boston fan how they feel about the Sox ownership, ask any Mets fan how they feel about their ownership. Ask the Reds, Pirates, Diamondbacks, Dodgers etc. Your average Yankee fan hates Steinbrenner.

The difference is wins, if this team some how puts it together inspite of ther owner, apendicitis and bad sushi and strings togehter a very solid and promising second half a lot of this stuff will disappear - mark my words

[66-70-83-??]

But how many teams can say the exact same thing?

The flip side is, how many BONEHEAD moves has Angelos nixed that would have gone through otherwise?

A lot of the owners don't like Angelos personally - I remember it was said on here a little while ago that Angelos is a Democratic, Pro-Labor type of guy and that rubs alot of the very conservative base of owners the wrong way.

Is the FO run poorly - yeah I am not going to argue that but lets face it there are owners in the game that are just as bad, if not WORSE than Angelos, they just happen to be riding a wave of anionimity or winning right now.

Ask any Boston fan how they feel about the Sox ownership, ask any Mets fan how they feel about their ownership. Ask the Reds, Pirates, Diamondbacks, Dodgers etc. Your average Yankee fan hates Steinbrenner.

The difference is wins, if this team some how puts it together inspite of ther owner, apendicitis and bad sushi and strings togehter a very solid and promising second half a lot of this stuff will disappear - mark my words

To even bring this up is bizarre- you are essentially saying Angelos is better qualified than Gillick, Wren, Flanny, Duquette, etc- to determine what a good or "bonehead" move is.

Is that what you believe ?

Good owners do not micro-manage the people they hire. If Angelos gets involved in anything more than blessing the dollars on mega-deals- it isn't good. If he is nixing actual players in trades- then lets just cut out the middle man (Flanny) and have PA name himself GM.

[RZNJ]

But how many teams can say the exact same thing?

The flip side is, how many BONEHEAD moves has Angelos nixed that would have gone through otherwise?

A lot of the owners don't like Angelos personally - I remember it was said on here a little while ago that Angelos is a Democratic, Pro-Labor type of guy and that rubs alot of the very conservative base of owners the wrong way.

Is the FO run poorly - yeah I am not going to argue that but lets face it there are owners in the game that are just as bad, if not WORSE than Angelos, they just happen to be riding a wave of anionimity or winning right now.

Ask any Boston fan how they feel about the Sox ownership, ask any Mets fan how they feel about their ownership. Ask the Reds, Pirates, Diamondbacks, Dodgers etc. Your average Yankee fan hates Steinbrenner.

The difference is wins, if this team some how puts it together inspite of ther owner, apendicitis and bad sushi and strings togehter a very solid and promising second half a lot of this stuff will disappear - mark my words

I live in the NY/NJ area. Most Yankee fans are pretty happy with Steinbrenner as owner. Believe me, they wouldn't trade him for Angelos. The difference is not just wins. Do you hear the media constantly making fun of other organizations and how they are run? Do you think the liberal media is picking on the liberal Angelos also?

[rolliefingers]

But how many teams can say the exact same thing?

The flip side is, how many BONEHEAD moves has Angelos nixed that would have gone through otherwise?

A lot of the owners don't like Angelos personally - I remember it was said on here a little while ago that Angelos is a Democratic, Pro-Labor type of guy and that rubs alot of the very conservative base of owners the wrong way.

Is the FO run poorly - yeah I am not going to argue that but lets face it there are owners in the game that are just as bad, if not WORSE than Angelos, they just happen to be riding a wave of anionimity or winning right now.

Ask any Boston fan how they feel about the Sox ownership, ask any Mets fan how they feel about their ownership. Ask the Reds, Pirates, Diamondbacks, Dodgers etc. Your average Yankee fan hates Steinbrenner.
The difference is wins, if this team some how puts it together inspite of ther owner, apendicitis and bad sushi and strings togehter a very solid and promising second half a lot of this stuff will disappear - mark my words

No way. At least on the Yanks/Sox. I've heard a lot of MFY fans say, more or less, "Yeah, he's an idiot, but at least he wants to win." I think a lot of Sox fans are pretty pleased with Henry's ownership. As much as Reinsdorf has sucked over the years, I don't see a whole lot of CWS fans calling for his head.

Look, if Angelos meddled his butt off and the Orioles WON, what right would we have to complain? This is about nine straight losing seasons. I don't care who gets the credit, I just want us not to suck anymore!

[bgfield]

Most things done down there are down half ass...There is no accountability...No one feels they can voice their opinion because they think they will get fired.

Little things take forever or are handled poorly.

This starts from the top and trickles down.

Employees, even at the small level i was on, are unhappy, overworked and underpaid.

It is a terrible organization and i am not sure it has gotten better, even though i havent been there in a few years.

It is a shame to because there are alot of people there who do know what they are doing and could be an asset but they are not allowed to be.

Not to diminish the value of all you experienced while working for the Orioles...but everything you described there sounds an awful lot like most jobs I've had

[Fan4Life]

To even bring this up is bizarre- you are essentially saying Angelos is better qualified than Gillick, Wren, Flanny, Duquette, etc- to determine what a good or "bonehead" move is.

Is that what you believe ?

Good owners do not micro-manage the people they hire. If Angelos gets involved in anything more than blessing the dollars on mega-deals- it isn't good. If he is nixing actual players in trades- then lets just cut out the middle man (Flanny) and have PA name himself GM.

Applause and props to you and RZNJ

[Sports Guy]

Not to diminish the value of all you experienced while working for the Orioles...but everything you described there sounds an awful lot like most jobs I've had

And that is true for many of us i am sure...Nonetheless, it is still pathetic.

[davearm]

Owners approve deals, thats what owners do. Some are more involved than others - some of them are way more involved than they should be, Angelos is one of them.

All I am saying is give credit where credit is due. Angelos meddling probably saved us from two very bad trades that would have really hurt this team not only in the short term - but the long term as well.

I still want the guy gone as much as anyone, but I will give him some props when he deserves it.

If PGA doesn't trust the baseball people in the organization to make smart decisions and run the team in the right way, then he should fire them and get some new people in that he will have confidence in.

Or he should do the job himself.

What you've got now, where PGA is a de facto GM is not feasible. Other teams and agents get exasperated with having invested time and effort in negotiations only to have an agreed-to deal get vetoed or shoved to the back burner.

Whoever you choose to put on the front lines, has to have the authority to make decisions, and carry them out. Otherwise everyone's just wasting their time. IMO that's the perception that's formed -- picking up the phone and calling Baltimore is probably a waste of time. Clearly that's a perception that's bad for business.

[66-70-83-??]

Most things done down there are down half ass...There is no accountability...No one feels they can voice their opinion because they think they will get fired.

Little things take forever or are handled poorly.

This starts from the top and trickles down.

Employees, even at the small level i was on, are unhappy, overworked and underpaid.

It is a terrible organization and i am not sure it has gotten better, even though i havent been there in a few years.

It is a shame to because there are alot of people there who do know what they are doing and could be an asset but they are not allowed to be.

I know someone who worked there for several years as well. He couldn't believe how dysfunctional and poorly run the organization was.

Show me an organization of any kind that is larger than a handful of people that is micro-managed by the top guy....and I will show you a place with bad morale. Responsibility equals Respect.

[rolliefingers]

IMO that's the perception that's formed -- picking up the phone and calling Baltimore is probably a waste of time. Clearly that's a perception that's bad for business.

NOOOOOO! Ya think?!

[badboydrake]

To even bring this up is bizarre- you are essentially saying Angelos is better qualified than Gillick, Wren, Flanny, Duquette, etc- to determine what a good or "bonehead" move is.

Is that what you believe ?

Good owners do not micro-manage the people they hire. If Angelos gets involved in anything more than blessing the dollars on mega-deals- it isn't good. If he is nixing actual players in trades- then lets just cut out the middle man (Flanny) and have PA name himself GM.

I dont think SJ believes that for a second, I think he is just giving props where he thinks they are do.

However, didn't Angelos nix a deal that would have brought Scott Rolen here, and given him and extension?

[rlilga]

Most people are not going to give up their lively hood to protest anything. Remember, being a manager, general manager, scouting director, etc is a dream jonb for many in baseball so with only 30 of those positions available, you are not likely to see any publicly bash an owner.

I'd like to bring up a little something called pride. Flanagan, et al, are being made fools of and it's not really a dream job when you can't do your dream job.

I base those remarks on your sources being correct. Although indirect reasoning lead a fair number of fans to these conclusions circa the time around the Mussina fiasco (I think a few people owe him a big apology). If they aren't true then Angelos keeps hiring incompetents to run his team. either way, Angelos needs to change.

[glenn__davis]

So Tony -- how long did it take before they revoked your guys' press passes?