Heads up: I'll be on WNST with trade news

[TonySoprano]

By everything does it mean that even a trade of, for example, Hawkins, that Angelos' approval would be needed?

If so that is really sad.

[Tony-OH]

Can Mackus or anyone else at the dinner tell us if Angelos's meddling was ever brought up with Flanagan at "The Dinner"?

Tony, you say Flanagan is part of the inner circle. Does he have enough pull to convince Angelos that this is the wrong way to run a team? I guess we already know the answer but I'd like to hear it anyway.

Judging by how things still operate, it would not appear so.

[neveradoubt]

Any of you coming over to my side of the fence yet, in my belief that some of this sabatoge by Angelos is intentional.?

Why can't people see what is going on here? PA is hoarding as much revenue as he can before selling this team. He is not about to actually lose money spending for over paid players. He will bail like a former owner of a Baltimore sports franchise did.

[Fan4Life]

By everything does it mean that even a trade of, for example, Hawkins, that Angelos' approval would be needed?

If so that is really sad.

Angelos is the GM...

[Skywalker76]

Thanks Tony for that report. Just sounds all so depressing. Even a good start by Bedard tonight won't make me feel better.

I think we (you guys in Maryland) should definatly do something about Angelos.

Tony, which direction do you think the franchise is taking? Do you think we have a chance to compete any time soon?

Thanks

[pdiddy]

I have an issue with the baseball people not making that decision. If they are not capable of doing that replace them. I would understand a deal for someone like A-rod where the investment is individually significant to the financial health of the team, but I do not see any evidence these deals were of that nature.

Apparently there was no veto. So the question is what is a reasonable time for Angelos to sign off on a deal? I understand (what I think is) your viewpoint that Angelos should set boundaries and tell the baseball guys to have at it as long as they don't exceed them. I know how I would rather work as a GM but I'm not sure how often that happens anywhere in sports without a final approval.

[CStoneNo37]

Why can't people see what is going on here? PA is hoarding as much revenue as he can before selling this team. He is not about to actually lose money spending for over paid players. He will bail like a former owner of a Baltimore sports franchise did.

I disagree. I think he's going to hold on to the team and pass it down to his kids the way Jack Kent Cooke did. Then, just like "Raljohn," the dirt won't even be covering Peter's casket before they sell the team.

[Fan4Life]

Thanks Tony for that report. Just sounds all so depressing. Even a good start by Bedard tonight won't make me feel better.

I think we (you guys in Maryland) should definatly do something about Angelos.

Tony, which direction do you think the franchise is taking? Do you think we have a chance to compete any time soon?

Thanks

No offense Skywalker.. but your comments contradict eachother... you now know the truth.. stop looking for someone to tell you want you want to hear.. mobilize to help exact some change...

[rolliefingers]

Why can't people see what is going on here? PA is hoarding as much revenue as he can before selling this team. He is not about to actually lose money spending for over paid players. He will bail like a former owner of a Baltimore sports franchise did.

Why wouldn't he have traded Tejada, if that were the case?

It doesn't make sense to say that he's just in it for the money.

He's in it for his ego, bottom line.

[Tony-OH]

Thanks Tony for that report. Just sounds all so depressing. Even a good start by Bedard tonight won't make me feel better.

I think we (you guys in Maryland) should definatly do something about Angelos.

Tony, which direction do you think the franchise is taking? Do you think we have a chance to compete any time soon?

Thanks

My heart tells me to hope so, but who knows? I like the baseball people involved with the orioles right now, they are quality baseball men. If they are allowed to do their jobs with interfearence or micromangement we'd have a better chance.

[FellsPointOsFan]

I mispoke originally when I said vetoed, I cleared it up by saying by the time the O's did get approval the deals were off the table.

Tony:

Would you mind writing up a little story for the main page? It might help clarify and avoid confusion.

Also, I emailed Roch Kubatko a link to this thread, but a brief item on the main page would be easier to direct people to.

I think that the sooner that people in the mainstream media get into this, the better. For some reason, there are a lot of respected national sports reporters who have covered the Orioles and would be interested in this story. I am thinking especially of Buster Olney, who, like Roch, runs a blog and definitely reads his email and feedback.

[Mackus]

Can Mackus or anyone else at the dinner tell us if Angelos's meddling was ever brought up with Flanagan at "The Dinner"?

Tony, you say Flanagan is part of the inner circle. Does he have enough pull to convince Angelos that this is the wrong way to run a team? I guess we already know the answer but I'd like to hear it anyway.

I don't think it was ever brought up specifically.

The closest I think we got to specifically dealing with Angelos meddling was the very first thing we talked about, which was the Mora contract. This was right after the Peter Schmuck article that said "Mora's contract is sitting on Angelos' desk" came out. After the introductions, Mrs. Flanagan started the evening of by (somewhat sarcastically/jokingly in an ice-breaking sort of way) said "So Mike, why is Melvin's contract sitting on Peter's desk?" Flanny then explained that it wasn't actually sitting on Peter's desk, but it was with Mora's agent.

Looking back I wish I had planned a few things ahead of time that I wanted to talk about and written them down. It would have been interesting to hear about the Townsend deal, what was going on with Burnett last year, and a handful of other things. We ended up talking more about the current state of the team, various free agents and trades that didn't happen (mostly Konerko, Delgado, Vlad, Lee, and ARod) and then just general things about the job and team.

[rp0806]

They have good, well-paying jobs. Angelos could get a lot of people to take their places.

They have no leverage over Angelos.

It appears that he's already having a difficult time getting talented FO and management types to come to the Orioles. A very public resignation by people like Flanagan will only make that problem worse, and it will get harder and harder for Angelos to find anyone with MLB experience to work in the FO. The universe of those people with MLB experience is very small, and many of them will refuse to come to the orioles if they know what to expect. Sure, he'll find people to take those jobs, but even Angelos at some point will realize that he needs minimally competent people. Will the threat of a mass resignation have an effect on Angelos? I don't know, but if I worked there I'd seriously consider it.

As far as people needing the jobs and being unwilling to give them up -- above someone mentioned the rumor that Duquette might leave soon b/c he's fed up. I don't see any reason to doubt that rumor. I'm sure Duquette feels that he can get another job and is only willing to take so much from Angelos. Many people in the FO probably feel the same way. At some point pride and self-respect trumps the need for the paycheck.

[rolliefingers]

Tony:

Would you mind writing up a little story for the main page? It might help clarify and avoid confusion.

Also, I emailed Roch Kubatko a link to this thread, but a brief item on the main page would be easier to direct people to.

I think that the sooner that people in the mainstream media get into this, the better. For some reason, there are a lot of respected national sports reporters who have covered the Orioles and would be interested in this story. I am thinking especially of Buster Olney, who, like Roch, runs a blog and definitely reads his email and feedback.

You've got the right idea. If we could get Rosenthal and Olney - two guys who remember what the O's used to be - to write critical pieces at once, maybe we would have something.

[davearm]

Thanks for the information Tony.

It's a real shame that you and the other diehard O's fans around here have to put up with this nonsense.

FWIW, I do recall hearing that our guy Jim Hendry got extremely angry/frustrated with the O's FO during the Tejada/Prior talks last offseason, to the point where he had to walk away. I'd like to believe that Hendry wouldn't let that experience prevent him from dealing with the O's in the future (actually they did, on Patterson), but on some level it has to have an effect. If that same negativity is spreading around the league, that's not a good thing.

It'd be just as bad if the FO was getting a bad rep with agents who represent FA's the O's would want. There are rumblings of that too, stemming from the Burnitz ugliness.

All in all, an unfortunate situation.