Possible Tejada scenario?

[erb8472]

Thanks... that is an option... I like mine better.

Your team still finish around .500 and has hardly no upside.

At least my team will be around .500 still, and has tremendous amounts of upside for years beyond 07.

[Fan4Life]

Thankfully you aren't the GM.

How you would want Carlos Lee who is going to be on the decline of his career very soon over Santana Aybar and Kotchman all with great upside is beyond me.

Because you are assuming:

That not only can Aybar and Kotchman produce at the MLB level, but can do so considerably above their ARP.

That CLee while has a good track record of production, won't be worth much in 2 years.

That Santana having one good year will reproduce that level or improve upon it. I think Mussina will be as good or better than Santana over the next 2 years if he stays healthy.

I like my assumptions better... and I want to compete next year.. I'll worry about 2009 later..

[Sports Guy]

Well, I haven't seen anything proposed that would lead to me to believe that.

1st- Kotchman
2nd- Roberts
SS- Aybar
3rd- Ensberg
LF- Mora
CF- CPat
RF- Markakis
C- Hernandez
DH- Burrell

Valentin- Backup C
Cruz Jr- Gets some time in CF versus tough lefties..Late inning replacement for MelMo
Millar- if he accepts back up role

Bedard
Lackey/Santana
Loewen
DCab
Penn/Rlo

Ray
Britton
Rhodes
Rlo/Penn
3 relievers acquired in trade or free agency..power arms

This team may or may not compete but like every other team that any of us will show, it will rely on DCab and Loewen and to an extent, Penn.

The defense would be great....Build a dominant bullpen...Make the games 6 innings. Good depth....High OBP...Rotation goes either way depending on DCab and Loewen but we have 2 top of the rotation guys and 2-3 other possible top of the rotation guys.

Alot more speed as well...3 potential 40+ SB guys.

The offense probably scores in the 825-850 run neighborhood. Pitchign staff has the potential to be a staff with a 4ish ERA.

Improved defense makes the pitching better.

Now, this team may not contend and probably needs another bat but if Markakis keeps developing and Kotchman gives us Gonzalez-like production next year, we would have plenty of offense to compete.

Good chance we could lead the league in doubles as well.

I think this team is as likely to compete as a team with Tejada, Lee, Lilly and Meche...It is just going about it in another way and focusing on things like the BP, defense and depth.

And we wouldn't be bogged down by long term deals for players who likely won't live up to them.

[geschinger]

Show me your options...

I try trade for Ensberg and Burrell. Ensberg at 3b and Mora in LF makes the defense better thereby helping the pitching staff. Penciling those two into the lineup more than makes up for the offense I'm losing when I see if I can trade Tejada for Aybar, Santana and Kotchman. I plug Aybar in a SS if he's ready, if not I put a stop gap their for the 1st half of the season. I pencil in Kotchman at 1st which improves the defense thereby helping the pitching staff. I've also added Santana to the rotation with Bedard, Benson, Cabrera and Loewen and if Penn shows he's ready than at the end of Spring Training or halfway through the season I move Benson hoping to get a MLB ready prospect to plug into LF at which point I turn Mora back into supersub if he's still playing at the level he was in the 2nd half of this year. If he is then it's more young pitching I try to acquire.

We would need the young pitchers to develop as quickly as Detroit's have to be a legitimate contender in 2007 but I think we'd be setup beautifully going into the 2008 season.

[erb8472]

Because you are assuming:

That not only can Aybar and Kotchman produce at the MLB level, but can do so considerably above their ARP.

That CLee while has a good track record of production, won't be worth much in 2 years.

That Santana having one good year will reproduce that level or improve upon it. I think Mussina will be as good or better than Santana over the next 2 years if he stays healthy.

I like my assumptions better...

It's not like Aybar Kotchman and Santana are scrub prospects. These guys are very very good prospects.

Santana has already proven that he can compete over the course of a full season, and would have been our second best starter this year. Not to mention the guy turns 24 this December.

Your assumptions are that Pete spends money, and that those guys would actually sign here.

[Fan4Life]

1st- Kotchman
2nd- Roberts
SS- Aybar
3rd- Ensberg
LF- Mora
CF- CPat
RF- Markakis
C- Hernandez
DH- Burrell

Valentin- Backup C
Cruz Jr- Gets some time in CF versus tough lefties..Late inning replacement for MelMo
Millar- if he accepts back up role

Bedard
Lackey/Santana
Loewen
DCab
Penn/Rlo

Ray
Britton
Rhodes
Rlo/Penn
3 relievers acquired in trade or free agency..power arms

This team may or may not compete but like every other team that any of us will show, it will rely on DCab and Loewen and to an extent, Penn.

The defense would be great....Build a dominant bullpen...Make the games 6 innings. Good depth....High OBP...Rotation goes either way depending on DCab and Loewen but we have 2 top of the rotation guys and 2-3 other possible top of the rotation guys.

Alot more speed as well...3 potential 40+ SB guys.

The offense probably scores in the 825-850 run neighborhood. Pitchign staff has the potential to be a staff with a 4ish ERA.

Improved defense makes the pitching better.

Now, this team may not contend and probably needs another bat but if Markakis keeps developing and Kotchman gives us Gonzalez-like production next year, we would have plenty of offense to compete.

Good chance we could lead the league in doubles as well.

I think this team is as likely to compete as a team with Tejada, Lee, Lilly and Meche...It is just going about it in another way and focusing on things like the BP, defense and depth.

And we wouldn't be bogged down by long term deals for players who likely won't live up to them.

That's not a bad option. What is the alternative if Burrell won't come? I would still be interested in adding Mussina to the rotation and bump Penn/RLo to the pen. I'm not sure your offense is enough, but if the pitching is good enough it may not have to be.

[Sports Guy]

That's not a bad option. What is the alternative if Burrell won't come? I would still be interested in adding Mussina to the rotation and bump Penn/RLo to the pen. I'm not sure your offense is enough, but if the pitching is good enough it may not have to be.

Mussina isn't coming here...Next option...

[geschinger]

Because you are assuming:

That not only can Aybar and Kotchman produce at the MLB level, but can do so considerably above their ARP.

That CLee while has a good track record of production, won't be worth much in 2 years.

That Santana having one good year will reproduce that level or improve upon it. I think Mussina will be as good or better than Santana over the next 2 years if he stays healthy.

I like my assumptions better... and I want to compete next year.. I'll worry about 2009 later..

If you only want to acquire sure things to build a contender you need a $120m payroll. You have to trust your scouting and you have to go with "IF" players if you want to compete with the payroll we're going to get.

[Fan4Life]

It's not like Aybar Kotchman and Santana are scrub prospects. These guys are very very good prospects.

Santana has already proven that he can compete over the course of a full season, and would have been our second best starter this year. Not to mention the guy turns 24 this December.

Your assumptions are that Pete spends money, and that those guys would actually sign here.

I'm agree they are good players... I just can't rely on them being the difference.. you need to add an Ensberg or Burrell or equivelent type bat(s) to them to make it and real option.

[erb8472]

Mussina isn't coming here...Next option...

You are assuming he isn't coming here, be careful.

[Sports Guy]

That's not a bad option. What is the alternative if Burrell won't come? I would still be interested in adding Mussina to the rotation and bump Penn/RLo to the pen. I'm not sure your offense is enough, but if the pitching is good enough it may not have to be.

Don't underestimate the OBP.

There are 5 guys in that lineup that we can probably pencil in a 350+ OBP...Mora could also do it and Hernandez would be close.

Aybar could do it but probably needs to hit 300 to do it, so he may be a year or 2 away of being a very good OBP guy.

CPat won't do it unless he hits 320 next year.

[Fan4Life]

If you only want to acquire sure things to build a contender you need a $120m payroll. You have to trust your scouting and you have to go with "IF" players if you want to compete with the payroll we're going to get.

Ok, you have already decided that you will be happy fielding a low payroll team... because ownship isn't going to spend... you and I part company there... I am not going to accept that... any players you get today, that actually do make it big, will move on to bigger horizons and you'll be in the same boat every 3 years... that assumes they make it...

[RZNJ]

Trade Tejada for Santana, Aybar and Kotchman
Trade for Tehan from KCTrade for Valverde from Arizona
Trade Daniel Cabrera and mid level for Crawford
Trade Mora


Lineup
C - Hernandez
1B - Kotchman
2B- Roberts
3B- Tehan
SS - Aybar
LF - Crawford
CF - Patterson
RF - Markakis
DH - Gibbons

Rotation
Santana
Bedard
Benson
Loewen
Penn

No fair. You can't throw trades out for a young player like Teahen who just came into his own and not show what you'd have to give up. That's like adding free players.

[Fan4Life]

Don't underestimate the OBP.

There are 5 guys in that lineup that we can probably pencil in a 350+ OBP...Mora could also do it and Hernandez would be close.

Aybar could do it but probably needs to hit 300 to do it, so he may be a year or 2 away of being a very good OBP guy.

CPat won't do it unless he hits 320 next year.

Of the 4 teams left in the playoffs, are any of them an example of high OBP being a recipe to the post season?

[Sports Guy]

Of the 4 teams left in the playoffs, are any of them an example of high OBP being a recipe to the post season?

Oakland finished 10th.

6 of the 8 playoff teams were amongst the top 17 in OBP.