MacPhail's test

[NewMarketSean]

We all said what he did at the deadline would determine whether or not he was the answer for our woes. Most people said we'd have to wait until the offseason to find out what he could do.

But if he comes in and doesn't sign Weiters after Angelos, Flanagan and Duquette have worked hard to establish a line of communication with Boras, it definitely won't bode well for his reputation and fans' hopes for him as GM of the team.

It's been said that if Weiters doesn't sign, Jordan will resign, and that is possibly the worst thing that could happen.

Hey, it wouldn't be the Orioles if we weren't staring the worst case scenario in the face, after we'd thought that we'd finally seen the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Dipper9]

We all said what he did at the deadline would determine whether or not he was the answer for our woes. Most people said we'd have to wait until the offseason to find out what he could do.

But if he comes in and doesn't sign Weiters after Angelos, Flanagan and Duquette have worked hard to establish a line of communication with Boras, it definitely won't bode well for his reputation and fans' hopes for him as GM of the team.

It's been said that if Weiters doesn't sign, Jordan will resign, and that is possibly the worst thing that could happen.

Hey, it wouldn't be the Orioles if we weren't staring the worst case scenario in the face, after we'd thought that we'd finally seen the light at the end of the tunnel.

If MacFail screws up this Weiters deal, that light you see at the end of the tunnel is the train that is about to finally kill the franchise!

[Mackus]

I still think we definitely get Weiters signed, but if we don't, I'll consider MacPhail a complete failure as a FO executive. Absolutely no excuse for not getting Weiters signed, if he can't do it, he needs to be fired immediately.

[geschinger]

It's been said that if Weiters doesn't sign, Jordan will resign, and that is possibly the worst thing that could happen.

Considering what Tony (I think it was him) posted about Jordan's handling of Watson - not willing to go above a certain amount - I wouldn't be surprised if Jordan has a number in mind for Wieters that he personally would not recommend the Orioles go above.

[Mackus]

Considering what Tony (I think it was him) posted about Jordan's handling of Watson - not willing to go above a certain amount - I wouldn't be surprised if Jordan has a number in mind for Wieters that he personally would not recommend the Orioles go above.

Watson was a late round flyer who had 2nd or 3rd round talent. Weiters has #1 overall talent, you're comparing apples to steak here.

[Fairfax Bird]

We all said what he did at the deadline would determine whether or not he was the answer for our woes. Most people said we'd have to wait until the offseason to find out what he could do.

But if he comes in and doesn't sign Weiters after Angelos, Flanagan and Duquette have worked hard to establish a line of communication with Boras, it definitely won't bode well for his reputation and fans' hopes for him as GM of the team.

It's been said that if Weiters doesn't sign, Jordan will resign, and that is possibly the worst thing that could happen.

Hey, it wouldn't be the Orioles if we weren't staring the worst case scenario in the face, after we'd thought that we'd finally seen the light at the end of the tunnel.

I believe it was RShackleford who said that the deadline is Wednesday and it is currently Monday.

I love the drama in this post. I am sure because Angelos and Boras made nice-nice in the paper that F & D & Angelos have really worked hard to develop a line of communication only to see Frankenstein Andy come in and knock it all down.

And Jordan resigning was Tony, a very well informed opinion, speculating on what might happen.

Even if he isn't signed, which would be bad, we would receive two picks in the top 15 next year.

All in all, overreact much?

[geschinger]

Watson was a late round flyer who had 2nd or 3rd round talent. Weiters has #1 overall talent, you're comparing apples to steak here.

The principle is identical regardless of whether it's the 1st overall pick in the draft or that last pick in the draft. I'd venture to say that when players / teams enter into negotiations they have a figure in mind that they'd like to pay as well as limits that they wont go past. Pricinple would be identical with Wieters/Watson - only the amounts of money are different.

[Mackus]

The principle is identical regardless of whether it's the 1st overall pick in the draft or that last pick in the draft. I'd venture to say that when players / teams enter into negotiations they have a figure in mind that they'd like to pay as well as limits that they wont go past. Pricinple would be identical with Wieters/Watson - only the amounts of money are different.

True, but Wieters is so much higher its not really comparable. We really should have no cap to get Wieters done. Thats not the way we should be negotiating, but if push comes to shove and its 11:55 Wednesday night, it'd be much smarter to give Weiters $10M than to tell him to enjoy his senior year.

It won't take that much, but Weiters is too important to not get signed. I don't care if he's asking for $10M, if we don't sign him, it'll be a complete failure by MacPhail.

[geschinger]

True, but Wieters is so much higher its not really comparable. We really should have no cap to get Wieters done. Thats not the way we should be negotiating, but if push comes to shove and its 11:55 Wednesday night, it'd be much smarter to give Weiters $10M than to tell him to enjoy his senior year.

It won't take that much, but Weiters is too important to not get signed. I don't care if he's asking for $10M, if we don't sign him, it'll be a complete failure by MacPhail.

I disagree as I said I think if we offer him something in the neighborhood of a $4.5m bonus or $5.5m ML contract and hold firm that there is no way he turns it down even if it means sweating things out until 11:55 on Wed night.

The response was actually to the speculation that Jordan might resign if Wieters is not signed. I suspect that Jordan has a number that once crossed he would recommend the O's move on and take the compensation pick. I just don't picture any of the guys in the front office (including Jordan) being willing to offer Boras a blank check.

[utvolzac]

I disagree as I said I think if we offer him something in the neighborhood of a $4.5m bonus or $5.5m ML contract and hold firm that there is no way he turns it down even if it means sweating things out until 11:55 on Wed night.

That's fine but at 11:56, if the phone doesn't ring. Give him what he wants.

I'll say it again, we waste money on Baez, Payton, Gibbons, etc. Why not "waste" money on someone with actual talent.

[AZRon]

I disagree as I said I think if we offer him something in the neighborhood of a $4.5m bonus or $5.5m ML contract and hold firm that there is no way he turns it down even if it means sweating things out until 11:55 on Wed night.

The response was actually to the speculation that Jordan might resign if Wieters is not signed. I suspect that Jordan has a number that once crossed he would recommend the O's move on and take the compensation pick. I just don't picture any of the guys in the front office (including Jordan) being willing to offer Boras a blank check.

Does he have the kind of potential that's available in every draft or is he a once in a decade type?

The closer he is to the latter evaluation, the more the O's should be willing to stretch and risk.

It's time to determine what fills the MacPhail jockstrap.

[Mackus]

The response was actually to the speculation that Jordan might resign if Wieters is not signed. I suspect that Jordan has a number that once crossed he would recommend the O's move on and take the compensation pick. I just don't picture any of the guys in the front office (including Jordan) being willing to offer Boras a blank check.

I do agree that Jordan has a maximum number, but I also think that Jordan's number is likely much higher than MacPhail's (again assuming MacPhail is slowing things down and Weiters doesn't get signed).

Also, which would you rather have happen, the Orioles give Weiters a $10M bonus, or they hold firm at a $4M offer and Weiters returns to college?

[RShack]

We all said what he did at the deadline would determine whether or not he was the answer for our woes.

Nope. Just some. As the deadline approaches, some folks get trade fever and decide that it's some mega-test about the future of the franchise.

Not everyone got on that silly horse...

But if he comes in and doesn't sign Weiters after Angelos, Flanagan and Duquette have worked hard to establish a line of communication with Boras, it definitely won't bode well for his reputation and fans' hopes for him as GM of the team.

It's been said that if Weiters doesn't sign, Jordan will resign, and that is possibly the worst thing that could happen.

Hey, it wouldn't be the Orioles if we weren't staring the worst case scenario in the face, after we'd thought that we'd finally seen the light at the end of the tunnel.

Oh, good grief.

Look, I'd love to see Weiters signed, just like everybody else. But equating this with Armageddon is a bit much. There's lotsa of stuff I don't know and you don't know either. For example, I have no idea how important it is to Weiters to sign this year. I can imagine that he's testing the waters. I can imagine that he's prepared to play another year of college ball and maybe up the ante on his signing. I can imagine that, for him, this year's draft is like buying a lottery ticket, just to see what happens. I don't know how he looks at it and (here's the important part) you don't know either.

It seems as if a lot of folks are assuming that he's there for the taking, and if the FO doesn't get it done, it's a sign of incompetence. Maybe so. Maybe not. Is there no limit on what you think the FO should pay to sign him?

Being disappointed if Weiters doesn't sign is one thing. Making every decision point The Great True Test of MacPhail is something quite different.

ps: What's this stuff about how Jordon is gonna quit if the deal doesn't get done? "It's been said." Lotsa stuff has been said, and much of it is baloney. I don't know the man, but I'd expect that he has his own opinion about what the $ limit should be on signing Weiters, and I'll betcha his opinion is something different than "infinity dollars".
.

[geschinger]

I do agree that Jordan has a maximum number, but I also think that Jordan's number is likely much higher than MacPhail's (again assuming MacPhail is slowing things down and Weiters doesn't get signed).

Also, which would you rather have happen, the Orioles give Weiters a $10M bonus, or they hold firm at a $4M offer and Weiters returns to college?

I wouldn't draw a firm line in the sand at $4m - I think Wieters is to the 2007 draft wat Weaver and Drew were to the 2005 draft. He is an equivalent prospect - no better than either of 'em. I'd offer him the straight signing bonus that Weaver got + 500k or the same ML contract that Drew got + 500k. I gurantee that one or the other would be accepted at the deadline - no reason to go higher.

[Sports Guy]

Gesch...There is no way that Jordan, Duq and Flanny(along with PA) draft Wieters without a very good idea of a range they will have to be in to get him signed...No chance in hell.

If MacPhail wasn't here, the deal would be done...This is what i have been told. He is the problem and he is the one holding it up.