The Wire

[NewMarketSean]

"The bigger the lie, the more they believe" was the quote of the show.

[Mackus]

"The bigger the lie, the more they believe" was the quote of the show.

Yeah I know, I just don't really think it should have been, because that scene didn't really relate to anything else in that episode. Although I think that quote could probably be applied to what (I think) is coming up with the reporters and possibly mis-reporting some stories.

[frankpembleton]

The opening scene was absolutely hysterical. It didn't really fit in with any of the rest, and I don't think Bunk's line "The bigger the lie, the more they believe" should have been the quote for the episode (although maybe that will apply more down the road to some of the unethical things some reporters will do), but it was an incredibly funny scene.

This exact same thing was shown in Homicide Season 1. Definitely a funny trick, and one that actually is (or was) used by Baltimore homicide detectives.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Is anyone else disappointed by McNulty's relapse? I mean we already spent 3 seasons watching his self-destruction. He finally turned the corner and stayed sober even when Bode was murdered due to his carelessness. Of all the potential paths to explore this choice seems redundant.

Also, in the past even when he was doing wrong you felt an underlying goodness. He was still doing noble police work and had a charming personality. If the first episode is any indication he's turning into a complete monster.

[Mackus]

Is anyone else disappointed by McNulty's relapse? I mean we already spent 3 seasons watching his self-destruction. He finally turned the corner and stayed sober even when Bode was murdered due to his carelessness. Of all the potential paths to explore this choice seems redundant.

Also, in the past even when he was doing wrong you felt an underlying goodness. He was still doing noble police work and had a charming personality. If the first episode is any indication he's turning into a complete monster.

I think McNulty's "relapse" is the only choice. There is no way he can work the Major Crimes Unit and not behave this way, the job drives him to drink.

To me the best parallel to this is when Bubbles got clean in Season 1. He was doing alright when he was able to stay with his sister and would have been ok if Kima had been able to give him that money to get set up, but he never was able to get the money, and the living conditions he was in made staying clean nearly impossible. McNulty working MCU is the same way. When he started explaining to Bea in the final ep of last season that he thought he could go back to working that way and "stay good" because he's with her, you just knew that he was gonna get back to being the way he used to be.

And like with most relapses, when he falls off, he falls off hard. I think it would have been unfair to the "character" that McNulty is to do it any differently. I'll be rooting for him to straighten things out, but I'm not expecting it.

[Mashed Potatoes]

I think McNulty's "relapse" is the only choice. There is no way he can work the Major Crimes Unit and not behave this way, the job drives him to drink.

To me the best parallel to this is when Bubbles got clean in Season 1. He was doing alright when he was able to stay with his sister and would have been ok if Kima had been able to give him that money to get set up, but he never was able to get the money, and the living conditions he was in made staying clean nearly impossible. McNulty working MCU is the same way. When he started explaining to Bea in the final ep of last season that he thought he could go back to working that way and "stay good" because he's with her, you just knew that he was gonna get back to being the way he used to be.

And like with most relapses, when he falls off, he falls off hard. I think it would have been unfair to the "character" that McNulty is to do it any differently. I'll be rooting for him to straighten things out, but I'm not expecting it.

No way is it the only choice. I work with recovered addicts every weekend who had worse problems than "McNutty." I initially thought of the MCU excuse but I don't think that's worse than Bode being killed because of his carelessness.

I think I'm angrier at the entire theme of the episode where absolutely nothing positive happens. Simon is using Season 5 to make a devastating critique on our entire system, it's broken. Pure and wholesome intentions get crushed by reality, they're not enough to succeed. But there's got to be some good with the bad otherwise it's just a caricature of reality. Flowers grow from the concrete, see Felicia Pearson.

McNutty's character made the most progress and had the best environment to succeed. Suddenly, unexplained, between seasons, he's gone from his high point to worse than he's ever been. I feel like I at least deserve some sort of explanation about what happened in between.

[Mackus]

McNutty's character made the most progress and had the best environment to succeed. Suddenly, unexplained, between seasons, he's gone from his high point to worse than he's ever been. I feel like I at least deserve some sort of explanation about what happened in between.

He had the best environment to succeed, but when he left the Western and went back to Major Crimes, he left that safe environment and went back to the dangerous one. It'd be like if Bubbles had to leave his sister's house and live on the streets full time.

[Lester Freamon]

Is anyone else disappointed by McNulty's relapse? I mean we already spent 3 seasons watching his self-destruction. He finally turned the corner and stayed sober even when Bode was murdered due to his carelessness. Of all the potential paths to explore this choice seems redundant.

Also, in the past even when he was doing wrong you felt an underlying goodness. He was still doing noble police work and had a charming personality. If the first episode is any indication he's turning into a complete monster.

I have to agree with Mackus. I mean, yes I am disappointed, but it was totally expected - and that's okay. Simon compares to The Wire to Greek tragedy. In Greek tragedy its characters are fated. McNulty cannot work work a real good case and be continually rebuffed by the boses (Carcetti, Burrell, Rawls) without going back to bottle and whoring. He can't. Now maybe if the Police Dept/City Hall wasn't so messed up he could do it.

Also, it has been 15 months since S4 ended - this season is starting in late March. It's been more than enough time for McNulty to turn back again.







*****NOT REALLY A SPOILER BUT YOU STILL MIGHT NOT WANT TO READ THIS*****







Gurgi, mentioned episode two. I've seen it too. I'll just say that McNulty is about to do some stuff that may actually not just turn people against McNulty but maybe even against the show - it's that nuts. Personally, I am going to trust the writers and their big picture.

[ledzepp8]

I know that McNulty was indirectly responsible for Bodie's death, but I don't really think we can call it carelessness. What were the odds that Monk would be at central booking at the exact same time McNulty was there to meet Bodie out front?

[Mashed Potatoes]

He had the best environment to succeed, but when he left the Western and went back to Major Crimes, he left that safe environment and went back to the dangerous one. It'd be like if Bubbles had to leave his sister's house and live on the streets full time.

I'm not sure why you repeated the exact same thing from your prior post since I responded to the point. I'll try again.

-In no way was relapse the only choice
-McNutty was not in a stable relationship before when he was in MCU
-McNutty had not made the realization that MCU drove him to drink last time he was in MCU
-McNutty had not made the realization that treating women like pieces of meat was wrong last time he was in MCU. This happened when the tables were turned in his relationship with Carcetti's campaign manager.
-McNutty was not sober last time he was in MCU
-People have recovered from worse situations than McNutty, even McNutty pre-progress, to claim relapse was the only choice is ridiculous

You don't go back to square one and even worse by solely blaming MCU. In my opinion the storyline is redundant and the executive decision lazy. At least explain how all of these lesson learned over the course of three seasons went to ****.

My guess is all the lessons learned from the past went to **** because Simon's ambition is to make a strong critique against a broken system. To which I respond, even our broken system has a plethora of miraculous stories and sections of progress. Painting a wholly dark picture is a caricature of reality, and staying true to reality is what makes The Wire so great.

[Mashed Potatoes]

I know that McNulty was indirectly responsible for Bodie's death, but I don't really think we can call it carelessness. What were the odds that Monk would be at central booking at the exact same time McNulty was there to meet Bodie out front?

Monk? Not likely. However what were the chances that someone involved in the drug game was on their way in or out of central booking and would get word out? Very likely.

Logically speaking it's true that McNutty wasn't responsible, a lifetime of poor decisions by Bodie put him in that position. What was important is that Simon constructed a situation where McNutty would operate on faulty logic. He was in a perfect storm of circumstances that prior would drive McNutty to drink. However, despite all the crap, McNutty resisted, it was symbolic of a greater accomplishment.

A now meaningless accomplishment.

[Mackus]

Monk? Not likely. However what were the chances that someone involved in the drug game was on their way in or out of central booking and would get word out? Very likely.

Logically speaking it's true that McNutty wasn't responsible, a lifetime of poor decisions by Bodie put him in that position. What was important is that Simon constructed a situation where McNutty would operate on faulty logic. He was in a perfect storm of circumstances that prior would drive McNutty to drink. However, despite all the crap, McNutty resisted, it was symbolic of a greater accomplishment.

A now meaningless accomplishment.

How do we know that didn't drive him to drink? There was only a couple days if that between Bodie's death and the end of Season 4.

Maybe there was a chance McNulty would be able to work cases and not fall back into his old ways, but I certainly don't think it was the most likely scenario.

Its disappointing from a character standpoint, its sad watching him fall back down that path, but its not disappointing from a writing standpoint in any way. People have problems, and McNulty is probably the most flawed character on the show. I don't think its unreasonable at all to have the chance, and possibly even the inevitability, of him going back to his old ways.

And for the shear entertainment value of the show, it definitely makes it better, IMO. He's much more fun to watch when he's going on rampages like that opening of the one season 2 episode than when he's getting all lovey-dovey with Beadie.

[Lucky Jim]

How do we know that didn't drive him to drink? There was only a couple days if that between Bodie's death and the end of Season 4.

Maybe there was a chance McNulty would be able to work cases and not fall back into his old ways, but I certainly don't think it was the most likely scenario.

Its disappointing from a character standpoint, its sad watching him fall back down that path, but its not disappointing from a writing standpoint in any way. People have problems, and McNulty is probably the most flawed character on the show. I don't think its unreasonable at all to have the chance, and possibly even the inevitability, of him going back to his old ways.

And for the shear entertainment value of the show, it definitely makes it better, IMO. He's much more fun to watch when he's going on rampages like that opening of the one season 2 episode than when he's getting all lovey-dovey with Beadie.

I didn't think the writing or acting w/ regard to McNulty was particularly sharp. From a writing standpoint, reducing a character to a stereotype to make some overall point about the inherently corrupting/destructive forces that act on folks working within a flawed/doomed bureaucracy is too easy by half.

[Mackus]

I don't think McNulty is a stereotype at all.

[Lucky Jim]

I don't think McNulty is a stereotype at all.

Smart, self-destructive rogue detective? No. Never seen it before, ever. I mean, except for the new-realism of 1970s american cinema. Or Pacino in Sea of Love. Or in Ian Rankin's Rebus books. Or Cracker. Or Prime Suspect. Or Raymond Chandler. Or even in the stereotype of a ton of Bruce Willis films (Die Hard 2; 16 Blocks). It's in crappy films like Hollywood Homicide. And such an archtype that Michael Chabon (author of Kavalier & Klay) used it in The Yiddish Policeman's Union.

McNulty is, essentially, a kind of Byronic hero. Chock-full of over-ripe romanticism (and extremities of mood).

He's only interesting when he's interesting; i.e., when he's forced to realize he's not the smartest guy in the room; or forced to live with the ramifications of his actions. I'm not saying that won't come this season. Just, when he's reduced to a self-destructive drunk, he's a cliche. I don't think McNulty needs to be a cliche. Or that, in the best episodes, he is, at best a stereotype. At worst a cliche. But in that first episode, and when he's reduced to being a simple drunk, that's the cliche to end all cliches [the stereotype to end all stereotypes].

If you don't think smart, self-destructive drunks are a cliche, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Heck, I spent most of the 1990s embodying that cliche. Or trying to.