The Wire

[OregonBird]

I watched the first episode of this season recently and of course I loved it.

I've been away from the city since 2003. Are the city's budget problems now as bad as The Wire episode makes it out to be.

[Gurgi]

Just saw the third show of season five. I don't know about this season. So far I don't care much about any of the plot starters. They all annoy me. McNulty has turned into a cartoon character. The dialogue is awful. It needs to get started soon.

[Mashed Potatoes]

I echo everything Lucky Jim said after seeing episode 2.

[Tony-OH]

I echo everything Lucky Jim said after seeing episode 2.

Wow, I have to say that that I've been seriously dissapointed in this season so far, almost to the point that the show seems unrecognizable.

I find the newspaper stuff to be just plain boring even though I've always been a fan of Clark Johnson's since his days on Homicide. The gang baging stuff just seems to be put in out of nowhere with violence for violence sake.

There is no tension, everything seems down and dreary with all the money issues, and now they are changing characters like McNaulty, who even though he had his warts, he was always a good cop. Now he's faking a serial killer???

Seriously, I'm almost at the point that I'll continue to watch, but it may not be on Sunday nights. It'll become when I get to it I get to it, and this is the only thing keeping me from ditching my HBO.

After the huge letdown that was the final season of the Sopranos, the cancellation of deadwodd and Rome, I think this is it for HBO. I think they've jumped the shark and it's time for me to spend me money elsewhere.

At least I'll always have seasons 1-4, but it seems a shame that the Wire appears to be limping home because Simon has an ax to grind with his old bosses.

[Tony-OH]

Has our Wire conversation grown cold? Is no one else watching? Am I wrong for skipping ahead and watching it OnDemand?

You can watch whenever you like, but I prefer to watch it on Sunday nights even though I have in demand. I agree with everythig you have been saying for the most part. This season has been a major dissapointment so far.

[Mackus]

Has our Wire conversation grown cold? Is no one else watching? Am I wrong for skipping ahead and watching it OnDemand?

I watch it On Demand as early as possible as well, but I think its a good idea to withhold from commenting on each episode until they air on Sunday nights so that we don't spoil anything for those who wait to watch.

Episode 2 really sets everything up for the whole season. I love how the show parallel's itself. My all-time favorite was the "I'll take anybody's money if he's just giving it away" line spoken by both Namond and Clay Davis. Now its both McNulty and Scott embellishing evidence/story to get what they want. McNulty wants to chance to pursue real police work, so he's trying to do whatever he can to get the attention back on policing. Scott wants to move to a bigger paper, and needs big stories to do so.

I have a feeling that one of them will get away with their lie, and one won't. It'll be very interesting to see how it plays out, because if either get caught, they're entire careers are gone.

I'm also incredibly interested to see whats going on with Marlo and Avon. Is Avon really showing "West Side pride" or is he setting up Marlo somehow? Either way, its awesome seeing Avon again.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Wow, I have to say that that I've been seriously dissapointed in this season so far, almost to the point that the show seems unrecognizable.

The pace is different, scenes seem choppier, the transitions aren't fluid, and most of all, there are key characters being acted poorly.

I find the newspaper stuff to be just plain boring even though I've always been a fan of Clark Johnson's since his days on Homicide. The gang banging stuff just seems to be put in out of nowhere with violence for violence sake.

I don't mind the newspaper stuff, because I love journalism and want to hear Simon's take on it's current role in society. With an epic movie often the goal isn't to entertain the viewer but deliver a powerful message (not that they're mutually exclusive). In that vein I enjoyed the meeting where they determined how to angle certain stories. I also thought the scene with Clark Johnson mistakenly waking up to clarify a perceived mistake was a nice insight into the life of a newspaper journalist.

However, outside of CJ, the acting in the newsroom is awful, and I blame it for the news room's lack of appeal. Also it's currently not tied into the rest of the plot. It has no effect on the characters we've grown attached too, so why should we care about these new guys leading plain lives?

I predict this will change. As McNutty continues his scheme, the media, who is looking for sensationalism will buy the serial killer storyline without questioning the weak evidence to back it up. Therefore Simon gets to make the media a villain, putting dollars in front of integrity, and McNutty's scheme gains relevance since it's actually being covered. Just a guess!

There is no tension, everything seems down and dreary with all the money issues, and now they are changing characters like McNaulty, who even though he had his warts, he was always a good cop. Now he's faking a serial killer???

This is my main beef. In past seasons things were down but there was potential for good, thus our even caring about what happens. Now everything sucks and there's no glimmer of hope. Again, I think this is purposeful as Simon's attempting a critique on the whole system whose conclusion is, this is broken and unfixable.

McNutty's downfall has been so long and so severe, it's lack of explanation is ridiculous. There was a moral line he didn't cross before. Yea he slept around, but he was separated from his wife. Yea he drank, but not on the job, never at the expense of the job. We could sympathize before because he lived for the job, and the job was a noble one. Now he's messing with loved ones' cause of death, far from noble, his job is now revolting.

Mackus I don't know how you can continue to throw out the MCU excuse when he was never even close to this bad off. The audience deserves a real explanation beyond his character's immorality being vital to advancing the plot.

Seriously, I'm almost at the point that I'll continue to watch, but it may not be on Sunday nights. It'll become when I get to it I get to it, and this is the only thing keeping me from ditching my HBO.

Whoa whoa whoa now Tony! The Wire gives meaning to my otherwise futile Sundays, bathing in hungover self-pity about the upcoming work week.

At least I'll always have seasons 1-4, but it seems a shame that the Wire appears to be limping home because Simon has an ax to grind with his old bosses.

It has only been 2 episodes! C'mon now we give the Orioles more second chances and they don't even have recent past success to justify our hope.

[rolliefingers]

I'll never give up on this show - I mean, I'm an extra in a few episodes, so I'd watch just for that - but this season has been a huge disappointment so far. McNulty is just unbelievable, and I mean that literally and badly - I don't believe what's happening. No nuance, and it seems like he's a completely different character from the past four seasons. I used to get a kick out of his drunken manwhoring because you knew that in his core, he cared about his job.

And without giving away too much, the end of Ep. 3 makes me even sicker than I was before.

[rolliefingers]

I predict this will change. As McNutty continues his scheme, the media, who is looking for sensationalism will buy the serial killer storyline without questioning the weak evidence to back it up. Therefore Simon gets to make the media a villain, putting dollars in front of integrity, and McNutty's scheme gains relevance since it's actually being covered. Just a guess!

See, this is the problem in a nutshell; the fact that we can all see this "plot twist" coming a mile away tells me that this season really is missing something.

[Lester Freamon]

Wow, I have to say that that I've been seriously dissapointed in this season so far, almost to the point that the show seems unrecognizable.

I find the newspaper stuff to be just plain boring even though I've always been a fan of Clark Johnson's since his days on Homicide. The gang baging stuff just seems to be put in out of nowhere with violence for violence sake.

There is no tension, everything seems down and dreary with all the money issues, and now they are changing characters like McNaulty, who even though he had his warts, he was always a good cop. Now he's faking a serial killer???

Seriously, I'm almost at the point that I'll continue to watch, but it may not be on Sunday nights. It'll become when I get to it I get to it, and this is the only thing keeping me from ditching my HBO.

After the huge letdown that was the final season of the Sopranos, the cancellation of deadwodd and Rome, I think this is it for HBO. I think they've jumped the shark and it's time for me to spend me money elsewhere.

At least I'll always have seasons 1-4, but it seems a shame that the Wire appears to be limping home because Simon has an ax to grind with his old bosses.

I realize that my handle is from the show and that the majority of my posts here at the OH have come in this very thread. But, at the risk of seeming like the guy who will support the show no matter what, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of the nay sayers.

I'll agree that this season (although, so far I've seen 2 episodes) does not appear to be anywhere near as good as S4, but that is not really that much of a jab because S4 was near perfection, IMO. However, even if this season turns out to be not as good as seasons 1 - 3 (I'll reserve my judgement for now, until I've seen more) I'm still finding myself on the edge of my seat.

The only real defense, however, that I can come up with for the show is:

Have the first couple episodes really, honestly, been all that different from what we've come to know and love about the show?

People have cited noticing differences in the dialogue and the acting and some have given specific examples of what they mean. I more than respect the opinion, but I'm just not seeing any drop off in the quality from previous seasons to this, in these regards.

Now, as some have said, perhaps the newsroom story really is just plain boring for you. I hear that. For me personally, I'm loving getting to know the newsroom thus far just as I did with The Pit, The Docks, City Hall and The School. I think the show has been very consistant in the way in which it has introduced us to each of these institutions and the characters involved. I suspect by the end of this season we will get to know the newsroom crowd in a similar way that we got to know Horseface, Mrs. Donnaly and other minor characters from the various instititions. And we will most likely LEARN something about these institutions in a way that we haven't on television before.

Also, keep in mind that this show was forced to make due with 10 episodes instead of 12 or 13. The writers here were expected to do "more with less". I think they need to be cut a little bit of slack here. Obviously, the McNulty storyline had to be pushed up a little bit earlier than normal.

I'm finding there is plenty of tension in various threads of the story.

- Now that Partlow has been charged with bringing Omar out of retirement, how is he going to do that? Personally, I fear for Butchie.

- Once Omar is back in BMore, how is that going to play out?

- Has Marlo finally bitten off more than he can chew, engaging the Greeks as well as Omar? - attempting to take over the WHOLE city, not just West Side.

- What McNulty has done is completely nuts. But so was Hamsterdam, and that was incredible television. I'm am totally going to give the writers the benefit of the doubt on this one. I'm looking forward to seeing how they handle this.

- Bubbles. Nuf said. Tons of tension there. Again, knowing that these characters are fated gives me a real sick feeling for Bubbles. I hope I'm wrong. I mean, throw us one frickin' bone David Simon.

- Michael Lee and Dukie. Tons of tension there, IMO. After episode 2 Michael is sounding more like a future Omar than a future Marlo. How will his standing in the Stanfield organzation be effected. Dukie - anything to do with him has my complete and undivided attention.

- Clay Davis. Is Lester going to get his man or will the political side of things swallow him up again.

- Carcetti. His quest for governor has really screwed over the city, will it be seen that way come election time?

- and overall I'm interested to see how the book closes for each character: Kima, Daniels, Carver, Herc, etc. Colvin, Prezbo, Namond and Randy - will we see them again?

As far as Simon using this season just to vent his personal frustrations about the media/his time at The Sun. Well, IMHO, the more I hear this being charged against him in the media the more I believe Simon's side of the story.

FWIW - here is a link to an Esquire article where Simon explains his side.

I don't have it on me at the moment, but later I will post a link (from Columbia Review?) that is pretty balanced, not told completely from Simon's side or that of Marimow/Carroll.

I don't think Simon's portrayal of Whitting III (Carroll) or Klebenaw (Marimow) is any more or less damning then the way that Burrell and Rawls were portrayed by Ed Burns in previous seasons. Perhaps, although I wouldn't count on it at this point, we'll see the pressure being put on Whitting and Klebenaw from Chicago similar to the pressure put on Burrell and Rawls from City Hall and we'll get a different perspective on these characters.

But all in all, I belive in Simon's portrayal of the newsroom and I don't think he'd waste HBO's money on a personal vendetta (and yes I know that Simon himself has said as much, not trying just to parrot him, but it makes sense. he is not the only person involved in the making of this show.)

Anyhoo, just wanted to give another side. Maybe you can take it into consideration.

[Lucky Jim]

The pace is different, scenes seem choppier, the transitions aren't fluid, and most of all, there are key characters being acted poorly.



I don't mind the newspaper stuff, because I love journalism and want to hear Simon's take on it's current role in society. With an epic movie often the goal isn't to entertain the viewer but deliver a powerful message (not that they're mutually exclusive). In that vein I enjoyed the meeting where they determined how to angle certain stories. I also thought the scene with Clark Johnson mistakenly waking up to clarify a perceived mistake was a nice insight into the life of a newspaper journalist.

However, outside of CJ, the acting in the newsroom is awful, and I blame it for the news room's lack of appeal. Also it's currently not tied into the rest of the plot. It has no effect on the characters we've grown attached too, so why should we care about these new guys leading plain lives?

I predict this will change. As McNutty continues his scheme, the media, who is looking for sensationalism will buy the serial killer storyline without questioning the weak evidence to back it up. Therefore Simon gets to make the media a villain, putting dollars in front of integrity, and McNutty's scheme gains relevance since it's actually being covered. Just a guess!



This is my main beef. In past seasons things were down but there was potential for good, thus our even caring about what happens. Now everything sucks and there's no glimmer of hope. Again, I think this is purposeful as Simon's attempting a critique on the whole system whose conclusion is, this is broken and unfixable.

McNutty's downfall has been so long and so severe, it's lack of explanation is ridiculous. There was a moral line he didn't cross before. Yea he slept around, but he was separated from his wife. Yea he drank, but not on the job, never at the expense of the job. We could sympathize before because he lived for the job, and the job was a noble one. Now he's messing with loved ones' cause of death, far from noble, his job is now revolting.

Mackus I don't know how you can continue to throw out the MCU excuse when he was never even close to this bad off. The audience deserves a real explanation beyond his character's immorality being vital to advancing the plot.



Whoa whoa whoa now Tony! The Wire gives meaning to my otherwise futile Sundays, bathing in hungover self-pity about the upcoming work week.



It has only been 2 episodes! C'mon now we give the Orioles more second chances and they don't even have recent past success to justify our hope.

Spot on, I think. I still like the show. But I'm not going to consider it some badge of honor to love it when it's not up to previous seasons.

Which isn't to say I don't respect those posters who are enjoying (and defending) this season. I may just be more critical than most (in fact, I know I am. I'm a joykill.)

[rolliefingers]

Also, keep in mind that this show was forced to make due with 10 episodes instead of 12 or 13. The writers here were expected to do "more with less". I think they need to be cut a little bit of slack here. Obviously, the McNulty storyline had to be pushed up a little bit earlier than normal.

Good point. I don't know when and where it was decided to have 10 episodes, but this season does feel like they're rushing a lot of plot points. That's three whole hours of plot that's just lost.

[Lucky Jim]

Also, keep in mind that this show was forced to make due with 10 episodes instead of 12 or 13. The writers here were expected to do "more with less". I think they need to be cut a little bit of slack here. Obviously, the McNulty storyline had to be pushed up a little bit earlier than normal.

I don't think this is any excuse. Unless - and I refuse to do this - we hold the show to a standard of regular television.

Otherwise, like all art, the show's form (one hour - ten episodes) and content need to come together. Some tension is fine. But I don't think we should apologize for their inability to make the plot machinations work within the new, abbreviated parameters.

[Lester Freamon]

Good point. I don't know when and where it was decided to have 10 episodes, but this season does feel like they're rushing a lot of plot points. That's three whole hours of plot that's just lost.

I don't have a link for you but I know that I've read somewhere that Simon asked for 12 or 13 episodes as per usual. HBO wanted 8 ( yeah, I know). Ten episodes was the comprimise.

I mean you've got to figure that there would have been much more buildup to what McNulty decided to do if it was a normal length season. For McNulty to find out that it was possible to fake a seriel killer in the same episode where he tries out the idea was definately a bit rushed Wire standards.

And Little Jim, man you are a hardcase !

[Lucky Jim]

I don't have a link for you but I know that I've read somewhere that Simon asked for 12 or 13 episodes as per usual. HBO wanted 8 ( yeah, I know). Ten episodes was the comprimise.

I mean you've got to figure that there would have been much more buildup to what McNulty decided to do if it was a normal length season. For McNulty to find out that it was possible to fake a seriel killer in the same episode where he tries out the idea was definately a bit rushed Wire standards.

And Little Jim, man you are a hardcase !

I guess. Understand, though - I'm far harder on those I like and respect. And I've been a Wire devotee for a long time.

This year is great television. But I can't recommend it as something bigger. And that's disappointing to me.

Sorry for being such a downer.