Roberts to Cubs update

[RZNJ]

Sorry, I just don't like this. How many MLB plate appearances does a guy need before people stop mentioning his AAA numbers? (I guess 700 PAs isn't enough). He's a free-swinger with too many Ks. He would have to be absolutely brilliant in the field to even begin to justify a spot in a big league lineup. And it's not like he's a kid anymore. If he were going to start translating his MiL numbers into MLB success, it really should have started to happen last season. And it didn't.

Marshall, best case, pitches 170 innings near league average... and there's nothing wrong with that, if it happens. EDIT: If he goes into long relief as some have suggested, his value goes way down and this deal looks even more shaky.

And I do like Gallagher a lot. He probably becomes the best young pitcher in the system.

So to my mind, this is trading Roberts for a really good young SP prospect, a probable #4 or #5 SP, and a guy who will very likely have to be replaced before this team starts to go anywhere.

I wish Patterson or Murton were in it -- Patterson to me has the potential to be a huge steal for somebody -- but I would still do the deal, and really hope that Gallagher develops.

You were expecting Brandon Wood back for BRob or some stud SS prospect? You take chances. If Cedeno put up a .750 OPS last year, we wouldn't be able to get him. Patterson has an advantage over Cedeno. He hasn't been exposed at the ML level yet. He also doesn't have a clear position.

[clapdiddy]

Two pitchers in the Roberts deal so we can leave Morrow out of the Seattle deal??????

Yeah...maybe we'll see Tillman instead...and he won't have to be on the 40-man!

I sure hope this is what its leading to....I'm wondering if the deal would be Jones, Clement, Chen, and Tillman since we would be getting back Cedeno?

[El Gordo]

Yeah...maybe we'll see Tillman instead...and he won't have to be on the 40-man!

I sure hope this is what its leading to....I'm wondering if the deal would be Jones, Clement, Chen, and Tillman since we would be getting back Cedeno?

They could be thinking of Cedeno as a 2B because they believe they already have their SS. Hoo Hooo Haaa Haaa BWWWAAAAAHHHAA!!

[clapdiddy]

They could be thinking of Cedeno as a 2B because they believe they already have their SS. Hoo Hooo Haaa Haaa BWWWAAAAAHHHAA!!

I'm not so sure that Cedeno is much of an upgrade from Hernandez. I'm not really thrilled with the deal, if it is on the table. I would prefer Patterson to Cedeno. I think he provides more offense.

[RZNJ]

I'm not so sure that Cedeno is much of an upgrade from Hernandez. I'm not really thrilled with the deal, if it is on the table. I would prefer Patterson to Cedeno. I think he provides more offense.

Based on? They are essentially the same age. Cedeno clearly outhit Patterson in AAA last year. Both have plate discipline problems. Cedeno has a position. Patterson? Maybe. Maybe not.

[Sports Guy]

This is completely wrong, there are many people here who will tell you they know the talent way better, just ask them.

Yea because I am sure AM will never ever make the wrong call.

[clapdiddy]

Based on? They are essentially the same age. Cedeno clearly outhit Patterson in AAA last year. Both have plate discipline problems. Cedeno has a position. Patterson? Maybe. Maybe not.

You are looking at just last season. Look at their career OBP. Cedeno is a .329 in the minors and Patterson is a .365.

Look at the power numbers as well. Patterson hits quite a few more doubles and homers and also draws walks more frequently.

[Sports Guy]

Correct. I think some are overlooking Marshall's tendencies as a groundball guy. He's not going to strikeout a ton of guys, but he could stabilize a very uncertain back of our rotation.

His K rate AND HR rate are terrible...For a GB pitcher, his HR rate is very high.

And its not like his BB rate is low enough to justify his low BB rate.

On top of that, his numbers were in the NL, not AL.

You may be onto something though....May want this deal because of no Morrow....If no(ml ready) pitching comes back for Bedard, they may want depth from a BRob deal.

[markakis4pres]

Not sure if I like the deal or not, I think we could get more.

Gallagher is the only piece that I like.

If it was possible I would ask for Epat and Cedano, but I think the Cubs would only give up one, but maybe not.

I guess if it would come down to the deal of Gallagher, Cedano, and Marshall, I would do it.

Then I would go after Truinfel from the M's, I would rather take him then Clement (not sure if the M's value Truinfel or Clement better).

[markakis4pres]

His K rate AND HR rate are terrible...For a GB pitcher, his HR rate is very high.

And its not like his BB rate is low enough to justify his low BB rate.

On top of that, his numbers were in the NL, not AL.

You may be onto something though....May want this deal because of no Morrow....If no(ml ready) pitching comes back for Bedard, they may want depth from a BRob deal.

We should not be taking Marshall back because we want more depth.

We have plenty of depth as it is, especially since Gallagher is coming back.

Marshall is a long reliever at best.

[JohnnyK27]

[QUOTE=Pruke;1155717]Put me down in this camp.

I mean, how many major league pitchers can we have at any one time on the roster for cryin' out loud?

Gallagher
Marshall (does he come into the mix because we don't get Morrow???)
Albers
Patton
Loewen
Guthrie
Cabrera
Burres
...

Bedard?????

These dominoes will have to fall close to each other or the entire roster flex will get funky.

We'll have a roster with 30 pitchers and 10 position players!!!! [/QU

I dont think they need to pitchers for Roberts Gallagher will do... If they did they should get a High Ceiling guy in the low minors who wouldn't have to be on the 40 man at this point!

The reason the Roberts deal hasn't been completely is said by rumor to be that AM wants to move Bedard first.

[tywright]

Tillman > Marshall

We should get a high ceiling prospect added in the deal...someone like Jose Ceda.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...pbp&pid=469167

[RZNJ]

You are looking at just last season. Look at their career OBP. Cedeno is a .329 in the minors and Patterson is a .365.

Look at the power numbers as well. Patterson hits quite a few more doubles and homers and also draws walks more frequently.

Fine. I'll give you that Cedeno stunk until he got to AAA. However, he's performed well there in at least two different stints. That's not a fluke IMO. Also, there walk rates were pretty similar at AAA last year. If you want to look at career minor league numbers, you win. If you want to look at the last two years, then Cedeno has outhit Patterson at the highest level. How do you acount for the fact that Cedeno outhit Patterson by about 140 OPS points? SG would say it was luck. How about you?

BTW, how is this for progression in the minors.

Ronny Cedeno

2003 in A ball - 552 OPS
2004 in AA ball - 729 OPS
2005 in AAA balll -921 OPS
2007 in AAA ball - 957 OPS

He didn't do well in a full season in 2006 in the majors and lost his job after 74 AB's last year. Again, at leat we know he has a position he can play. I think he's worth taking a chance on. Patterson is the "sexier" prospect because he can run and because he hasn't been exposed yet, like 90% of the guys who come up.

[JohnnyK27]

Put me down in this camp.

I mean, how many major league pitchers can we have at any one time on the roster for cryin' out loud?

Gallagher
Marshall (does he come into the mix because we don't get Morrow???)
Albers
Patton
Loewen
Guthrie
Cabrera
Burres
...

Bedard?????

These dominoes will have to fall close to each other or the entire roster flex will get funky.

We'll have a roster with 30 pitchers and 10 position players!!!!

I dont think they need 2 to pitchers for Roberts, Gallagher will do... If they did they should get a High Ceiling guy (potential #1) in the low minors who wouldn't have to be on the 40 man at this point!

The reason the Roberts deal hasn't been completely is said by rumor to be that AM wants to move Bedard first.

[Sports Guy]

I would also prefer EPat.

Cedeno has almost 700 ML ab's and his OPS isn't that much above 600. While that is still a small sample size and most of that was done at a young age, that is still a healthy amount of ab's to get an indication about him.

I think he would be a better player than LH but not enough to where I would want him to be a player in a BRob deal.

Cedeno only started hitting in the minors when he got to the PCL and his BABIP numbers are very very high in AAA so those numbers are inflated on many different levels.

He is supposed to be good defensively and maybe he is better now as he is older.

I just think he will be very disappointing for us...If we could get him in a seperate, smaller deal, that would be fine. But as part of a deal for BRob? No thanks.....Although I must say, i may prefer him to Marshall.